Time for a zero refugee policy? - *Read OP for mod warnings and threadbans - updated 11/5/24*

jack of all

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122143346#Comment_122143346

Like this has never happened, ask Lucky. The game is up on this nonsense and Irish voters will make their voices heard.

ooter

Was listening to drive time earlier and there was a piece on it about "essential migrant workers" and the fact they can't bring their partner and child(ren) over here to live.

Some of the careers mentioned were farm workers, meat factories workers and restaurant workers, are migrants really essential for those roles?

Water2626262

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122143464#Comment_122143464

I do wonder about that. No way can someone working in a meat processing factory afford to support a family and accommodation (which is unfortunate but a true fact). If they ended up on HAP is the government essentially just propping up a small to medium sized business with tax payers money. All to keep wages down too.

babyducklings1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122142994#Comment_122142994

Young medical graduates and nurses could and should have been given rent free accommodation for a year or two to incentivise them to stay. But no no planning whatsoever.

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122143348#Comment_122143348

Who are you calling stroppy ?! ;)

I see your point .

However it made no difference to pay rates, conditions or the government before foreign nurses were first brought over here in larger numbers in the noughties.

They were initially drafted over after nurse education went from diploma to degree level and there was a drop in nurses available because student nurses were no longer employed as numbers working in the hospitals until their final degree year.

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122143464#Comment_122143464

The only thing I heard was foreign doctors who could not get visas for their families to join them .

Emblematic

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122143554#Comment_122143554

How do you know wages might not have increased more than they did had the State not had the option of replacing Irish-trained nurses with foreign ones as the Irish ones left for better pay and conditions elsewhere?

alias no.9

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122142590#Comment_122142590

If we're prioritising anyone, it should be people in camps in countries adjacent to active warzones and within that cohort, it should be family units parents and u18 children. Fixed numbers every year which lend themselves to planning.

Anyone who enters the country without a visa or overstays a visa or worse still with no passport after boarding multiple international flights should be bottom of the list. Anyone who has the financial wherewithal to cross half the world, bottom of the list. Clients of people traffickers, bottom of the list.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122143442#Comment_122143442

It sounds like the system has become much stricter recently. Anyone who is an 'economic migrant' is not going to be granted refugee status.

jam_mac_jam

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122143305#Comment_122143305

They keep wages down because if they were not available to work Irish authorities would have to improve conditions for nurses here. They don't have to deal with the lack of people who want to be nurses in Ireland because they can import other people to make up the shortfall.

Immigration supresses wages by increasing the supply of labour so existing workers have less bargaining power. More people willing to do the job. Lower pay and conditions.

T

Geert von Instetten

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122143583#Comment_122143583

I’m unconvinced of that, though I expect that the majority of the electorate would approve of firmer policies; increased thresholds for protection, reduced processing times, reduced protection time-limits, limited access to the labour market, limited access to welfare, increased use of detention, increased deportation, limited family reunification etc.

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122143571#Comment_122143571

Of course we don't know for sure except by comparing rates of increase before and after they came .

There was a strike a few years before which resulted in improved pay and more grades to nursing , specialist nurse etc along with improved access to degree and master's level courses and ensuring nurses were credited for their courses and experience .

This meant nursing in Ireland was pretty set up for a good few years , if the crash hadn't happened and agreements were stalled .

Indian and Filipino nurses were here well before the crash and settled in . Given help with accommodation initially .

But once here and absorbed in the workforce , they were the same as the rest of us ..living, working and paying their own way .

The following year and every other year after that , as before , Irish nurses emigrated and continued to emigrate / return , cyclically .Numbers of nurses from abroad arriving to work here have never been as high as in those first couple of years .

Many saw soon enough it was a tough gig and moved on to elsewhere unless their families joined them and they set down roots .

Our pay rates were all slashed during the crash with FEMPI only just being phased out now 15 years later .

And as the poster above who feels public services get too much , rates of increases are jealously guarded in case of a back lash from the electorate .

There is no danger rates of pay or conditions would have improved over that period of time regardless of foreign healthcare workers .

And I could not countenance people saying we could or should do without them .

This makes no sense .

We would have literally had to close hospitals without them .

marno21

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122143383#Comment_122143383

The penny is finally dropping as to how toxic the Green Party influence on this Government has been to its electoral prospects. And Michael and Leo have happily gone along with most of it for the entire period of Government. First it was Tony Holohan, then the Green members. Effectively subcontracting the leadership of the country for fear of being out of a job.

FF/FG got 43% of the vote lto. The Greens got 7%. Most people in that 43% could have voted for the Greens should they desired to have donkeys running several Departments in the name of ideology. They didn’t for a reason

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122143641#Comment_122143641

So how many are ' imported ' every year then ?

I have given my view which is from the coalface so to speak .

There is no way we could have managed after the crash without them with the considerable numbers of Irish nurses who left because their partners or husband's were unemployed .

Maybe pay rates after would have gone up faster .don't know .I can only say we could not have gotten through without them and most people working in healthcare, unless they are a bit thick really , don't differentiate .

If you are working a mad busy unit with skeleton staff and you get a relief nurse from another part of the hospital , you don't notice whether they are Irish , English or Indian , you just say "thank you.. can you look after this group of patients?!"

Coolcormack1979

I’ve a feeling that if the locals go as bad for ffg that we could get the general election a lot sooner than November.it could be last week of June first week July.

The carnage is coming and too many are now awake to what’s happening

Emblematic

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122143648#Comment_122143648

No, once you have a significant portion of your workforce as immigrant workers, you can't suddenly get rid of them all and expect things to run smoothly. That is true.

But that is not what is being suggested. What is being suggested is that immigrant workers have had the effect of keeping pay and conditions relatively low. Without them, the State would have had to pay more to Irish-trained nurses over the years, to keep them in the country and attract more to do the training. And, of course, more would have had to be put into expanding training.

star61

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122143698#Comment_122143698

Agency staff paid way more than HSE staff - who works for the agency’s.

Browney7

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122142373#Comment_122142373

I always enjoy this chart and the fact that they recently changed the scale at the bottom of it for the 2024 stats. Serves to have the line looking less steep or else someone isn't very good at charts in the DOJ

boredyooser

Does anyone remember this ? I remember at the time watching BBC reports and being frankly offended that a group of Irish people would attempt to assist people attempting to illegally enter the UK, many under false pretences, for the British public to both pay for financially and with regard to the effects on their society, whilst the Irish supporters could get a warm fuzzy feeling without having to actually feel the effect on Irish society, yet interfere in British affairs.

At the time I thought it was the height of arrogance of these folk, many from from monocultural green rural idylls, to dictate to foist this onto the British taxpayer and their already crowded cities.

I'm all for helping people in need, but to attempt to interfere in British affairs and the wishes of the British public ?

Now that the lads have made it from Calais to the UK to Ireland, I'm wondering how many of the convoy and their social media supporters have taken the lads into their own homes and gardens, now that the issue is here and they don't need to go all the way to Calais to help ? Surely there is plenty of room, not just in their homes on camp and inflatable beds, but in their front and back gardens to host tents ?

https://www.thejournal.ie/ireland-calais-refugee-solidarity-2369980-Oct2015/ 'Devastating and incredible': Irish volunteers on life in the Jungle

ON 1 OCTOBER, 54 volunteers left Ireland for the Jungle, a refugee camp in Calais, France. The Irish convoy was organised by Ireland Calais Refugee Solidarity, which was set up by Tracey Ryan and Elaine Mernagh.

https://www.joe.ie/news/feature-this-is-what-irish-people-can-do-to-help-people-living-in-calais-553663 FEATURE: This is what Irish people can do to help people living in Calais. ROSANNA COONEY
… When Brexit takes effect, the UK will no longer be able to send migrants back to France once they arrive. At press conference this morning however  British Prime Minister Theresa May confirmed that the border control between the two countries would remain in France.
“We are both very clear that the agreement should stay,” say said. Hollande added that “we consider it as our duty to apply it and also to improve it.” How the French government intend to do so is unclear, as the plan to fully demolish the camp appears unchanged.
“Why can’t civil servants go over and process the migrants claims remotely from Calais? Why can’t the process be sped up?” asks Elaine Mernagh, co-founder of Solidarity – an Irish volunteer organisation created to help the migrants in Calais … For someone who has seen the camp, it is impossible for Mernagh to accept the politics and games being played by the UK government when the points they score mean life or death for thousands of individuals.

http://www.wsm.ie/c/ireland-calais-refugee-solidarity-convoys-depart-report Ireland to Calais Refugee solidarity - Report as the 1st convoys departed
… Today the first of Ireland-Calais Refugee Solidarity’s convoys of basic aid is due to arrive in the French port of Calais. The aid is for distribution among the several thousand refugees living in deplorable conditions in makeshift camps outside the town, hoping to gain entry into the UK …

https://www.irishexaminer.com/lifestyle/arid-20360832.html My three days in Calais camp hell. I volunteered for three days at a refugee camp in Calais. The dire conditions, and the indifference of officialdom, are shameful, says Suzanne Harrington
We bump into Samer, whom we met last time, … A political scientist from Sudan, he made the journey to Calais via people smugglers … He left his pregnant wife and two children back in Sudan; he hopes to send for them. … Every night, he walks two and a half hours to the Channel Tunnel, in the hope of stowing away to England … “I don’t want help,” he says. “I want freedom.” … We find Samer again and give him medicine and a gas bottle, which he says will last 20 days. And, in a gesture of well-meaning futility, we give him some mejdool dates. He needs medical intervention and a work visa, not a box of dates … Very little would sort this entire situation out. That this level of suffering is happening on our doorstep for purely political reasons — with neither France nor Britain taking responsibility — is a disgrace.

https://www.echolive.ie/corknews/arid-40107488.html Cork nurse slams UK migrant policy: 'People risking their lives deserve to be treated as fellow human beings' 
A CORK nurse working with Doctors Without Borders (MSF) has hit out at UK government plans to make cross channel migrant crossings “unviable” for asylum seekers.
In recent days, the government and media in the UK have been highlighting migrants attempting to cross the channel from France in small boats.
Cork native Aoife Ní Mhurchú has worked for MSF across the globe including in the Mediterranean, assisting vulnerable asylum seekers … Speaking to The Echo, Aoife said: “The demonisation of the men, women and children who find themselves forced to reach the UK by crossing the English Channel is reprehensible.
“Undertaking such a treacherous journey is a last resort, a desperate effort to seek a safe and better life for reasons of sanctuary, family reunification, or employment … “Instead of engaging in public attacks and feeding into their dehumanisation by implying criminality and threat, the UK Cabinet ought to consider the underlying causes of the desperate situation facing these refugees and migrants.”

https://rebelcitywriters.wordpress.com/2015/10/29/is-the-price-of-the-barbie-doll-a-french-refugee-camp/

We are proud to carry this excellent piece from our very own Rachael O’Sullivan which appeared in todays Evening Echo. 
60% are ‘tunnel runners’. People who have run out of money but not hope after their awe inspiring journeys through North Africa and Europe. People who still believe if they make it to the UK they will be able to send for their families and find work or safety. 
Waseem, 35, Syria. I left my wife and two children in Syria and I want to come to the UK because it has the shortest reunification period – I think it is seven or eight months. I think in Germany it’s 18 months … I worked in telecommunications in Syria, we had a good life. I think maybe I should try and go home. ... We had enough at home, I had my family. Maybe we had enough? Why did I come here, this seems worse. At least in Syria I had my family.
Idris, 39, Iran. I was living in the UK for 8 years. I went home to Iran to visit my family … I was in prison for three years. Afterwards, I tried to go back to England and when I got to the airport they said I had been gone for more than six months and I could no longer enter the UK. Now I am in Calais. I have my NHS card, my National Insurance number, I even had a residency permit but it was no good to me. Now I am in Calais.

Real Donald Trump

https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2024/0515/1449419-asylum-applications/

Smart lads aren't they? Too busy calling people far rite over the past year and now look where we are. Shame it took so long for these gombeens to wake up.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122143798#Comment_122143798

I think the realisation that 20k asylum seekers arriving this year, which was what the govt projected earlier in the year, is asignificant underestimate is hitting home now with some of the politicians.

25k to 30k arrivals looks likely this year and considering the govt plan to deliver 14k beds for asylum seekers by 2028, the numbers really dont stack up.

The projections that only about 15k would arrive each year between now and 2028 are obviously way off.

What next for the govt?

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122143713#Comment_122143713

Lol everybody !

Northernlily

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122143804#Comment_122143804

Even 30,000 could be an underestimate I fear.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122143804#Comment_122143804

Those numbers do sound a lot higher than previous recent estimates. In fairness though, the numbers are probably taking a lot of people by surprise and might not necessarily have been forecastable. It may well be reflected in asylum claims across western Europe at the moment : there's no particular reason to believe we are a major outlier or a blip on the chart.

Geert von Instetten

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122143837#Comment_122143837

I’d argue that there is, asylum applications in the EU increased 50% from 2021 to 2022, in Ireland they increased 400% from 2021 to 2022. Compared with pre-COVID figures, there was a 34% increase in asylum applications in the EU between 2019 and 2022, there was a 186% increase in Ireland. 

minimary

The first thing they should do is get rid of leave to remain, as far as I'm aware Ireland is under no obligation to offer that. That would shorten the procedure a lot.

Next thing to do is set up a dedicated immigration court with equivalent jurisdiction to the high court and any appeal to the court of appeal in an immigration decision should be fast tracked.

Instead they're ringing their hands and trying not to look bad. If they had taken any kind of control of this years ago when the writing was on the wall about what a **** show this was becoming then they could afford take their time on this but they've created a disaster.

They're so afraid of upsetting absolutely anyone (except for tax payers) that they won't take any action on bogus asylum seekers. Even something as simple as reinstating the need for visas from South Africa they haven't done yet

jackofalltrades

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122143837#Comment_122143837

Europe's had a serious migration issue for a decade now, it hasn't just snuck up on us. Until very recently Ireland was going full pelt liberalising it's migration policy, while the rest of Europe was running as fast as the could in the other direction. It didn't take a genius to see this current disaster unfolding. The blame lays firmly at the feet of politicians and the electorate who put emotion before reason.

zell12

official figures released Wednesday showed two separate groups of 25 migrants were detained by Irish police while travelling from Northern Ireland to Dublin before being sent back to the UK.  The migrant groups, which contained three children, were stopped in October and February during two, four-day operations. They were returned by ferry to Holyhead or by train to Belfast. 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13421121/uk-migrants-belfast-rishi-sunak-insisted-not-accept-returns.html

zell12

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122143798#Comment_122143798

During the meeting, it is understood that Minister McGrath said migration had "exploded as a political issue".

LOL, it's been a political issue for decades, hence why we had a citizenship referendum in 2004

riddles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122143581#Comment_122143581

Anyone who comes here not through a camp as part of a global program should be immediately deported and this should happen at an EU level.

We should also stop paying HAP and welfare to economic migrants who are EU citizens and have no social contributions here.

Finally and root and branch review of all the citizenship’s given out in a free for all and all with criminal those showing convictions evicted from the state.

We are a small island society not a major global economic power house - a reality check is needed within the core of our political system.