Sinn Féin finds further errors in 2020 election returns: 26th Jan 2023

maccored

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120974714#Comment_120974714

i say call their bluff, to be quite frank. If SF don't respond the way I assume they will, then they'll have lost my vote forever - and I would presume that of many others. The only reason they are votable for to me is because they are used to dealing at grass root level, dealing with actual areas that impact people. I'd expect them to keep giving a **** about the average punter. they've never had a chance - ever - to try that on a grander scale so everyone one has had a turn - so why not SF? Even if they manage to **** things up worse than the usual two already have, hopefully the more vulnerable might be a little better off than they would be under the current government. It is actually time for a change, and SF have overtaken everyone over the past few years. It'll happen sooner than later.

I'm quite possibly the most left-wing person on (active) Boards.ie.

We're going nowhere at the next election.

The fact the lefties want an immediate election tells me all I need to know.

The best chance we have is for FFG (that'll hurt the FG and FF supporters but ye're the same, lads) is for this government to ride out until 2025. The longer it goes, the better.

jh79

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120973843#Comment_120973843

I did say SF are a progressive party but they have indulged members that believe in conspiracy theories. This belief in conspiracy theories led them to mixing with the various far right groups such as the Freemen, Yellow Vests and Gemma's lot. Selecting one of their own (Wynne) probably made them think SF was the party for them .

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120974998#Comment_120974998

Could you expalin this Jh79?

Who selected one of their own? Who does Wynne belong to and why did selecting her (I presume you mean SF selected her) probably make SF think SF was the party for them?

TBH This is the second time you have said this and it makes zero sense the second time too?

jh79

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120975137#Comment_120975137

Wynne public profile was due to her anti vax views on social media. She was part of Gemma's lot. SF then selected her for the GE.

Paddy Holohan was mixing with Terry McMahon and John Connors prior to his selection. They were all friendly with a far right guy who has the nickname "Tan Torino" as he's former British Army! They were big into the whole Ireland for the Irish nonsense but SF still took him on.

For me, the rise in far right sentiment among SF voter is due to them mixing with the CT crowd that Gemma was de facto leader of. Not saying it is intentional.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120975324#Comment_120975324

Wynne was a third choice candidate in an election/seat SF didn't expect to win and they very quickly disassociated themselves from her 'old views'. She wasn't of that view when elected as far as I can see.

Will you be making the case that Labour are going to the far right now that Bacik is courting Wynne to stand for Labour?

jh79

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120975387#Comment_120975387

Is she? Didn't know that. They should stay well away from her.

What's your theory on why SF support is the most right leaning of the mainstream parties?

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120975414#Comment_120975414

Why would it require a theory?

None required unless this 'right wing support' is a homogeneous grouping capable of altering policy.

Your right wing might be another person's centre right btw

No more than FG or FF can control who lends them support neither can SF.

As far as I can see they have not shifted policy in any major way to accommodate. If they were, then you have an issue.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120975414#Comment_120975414

It is quite simple. As you have set out repeatedly, Sinn Fein have TDs and councillors making statements that mean Oliver J. Flanagan look like a socialist.

While some might make out it is just a bunch of councillors, it does a lot deeper than that.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120975649#Comment_120975649

Were FG far right when Oliver was a senior member?

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120975783#Comment_120975783

Probably best explored in the relevant thread rather than here.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120975874#Comment_120975874

Well the thread is titled 'Sinn Féin finds further errors in 2020 election returns: 26th Jan 2023'

Seems it's a free for all already. 😁

blanch152

https://twitter.com/AoifeMasterson/status/1691778169982824524

We can see from this tweet how Sinn Fein got into trouble with their election returns. Like the people withdrawing money they didn't have, they probably took donations "in the good faith belief" that they were entitled to.

Sometimes it really beggars belief the type of things they will defend.

maccored

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120992120#Comment_120992120

or maybe recognising that, despite the 'full employment', since in general wages are so low, that theres many people who probably took the money because they haven't a hope of ever qualifying for a loan. Maybe if our government tried to shape a society where people could afford a house, afford to save etc, then as many people might not have in such dire straits that they needed to take out money they knew they didn't have. Have you ever heard of the word 'empathy'? Do you have any for anyone?

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121008130#Comment_121008130

If they knew they didn't have the money, then they were knowingly taking something that they weren't entitled to, which is stealing, which is a crime. Sinn Fein have a long track record in defending criminals, so I can't say I am surprised by this.

Your idea of a utopian society where people can afford a house and afford to save doesn't exist anywhere in the world outside of North Korea, so I don't why you judge our government by that standard. Perhaps you recognise that Ireland is one of the absolute best places in the world to live in, and set an impossible standard.

maccored

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121008165#Comment_121008165

look, i totally agree that its stupidity to get yourself in debt. Now, I have no idea if you have any notion what its like, but when I was homeless and couldnt even claim the dole. if I had had a BoI account and that opportunity came, I would have taken it as well. My point is if people weren't in such desperate straits in the first place, chances are not as many people would have had been so desperate that they would have taken out money.

I see though that simple idea of understanding humanity and having humility is something you just cant quite grasp.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121012527#Comment_121012527

I understand it better than you think. I had no money at one point in time, but I got a job, worked, and am much better off now. Never did it cross my mind to take something that wasn't mine.

It is a different mentality.

maccored

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121012534#Comment_121012534

its a differetn mentality if you have other options and still decide to do it. they are people like that int he world (it takes all kinds). Again though, my point is that too many people may well have needed the money and took the opportunity because putting the bank on the never never is better than the money lender down the road who'll do illegal things to get their money back.

AGsin, you seem to blame the person here without any consideration of the issues they may be facong. shame on you even more if you know what that kind of pressure is like. I think everyone accepts there are people stupidly thinking they'd get free money. There are others though who had no choice, thanks to the low paid society we live in where the government try to look after the well to do moreso than the person on the street.

moon2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121012551#Comment_121012551

Let me preface this with "not every person, but some people" https://extra.ie/2023/08/16/news/bank-of-ireland-glitch-tvs

Everyone in the conversation should be cautious of who they're tarring with what brush.

I'd be pretty safe assuring you that anyone who went a bought a TV is definitively not strapped for cash. They made a choice, and should be accountable for that choice.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121012551#Comment_121012551

Stealing is wrong. That is all.

Fionn1952

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121012614#Comment_121012614

Even the most cold hearted of absolutists would avoid a statement like that.

That being said, stealing a loaf of bread to feed your starving children or commandeering a vehicle in a life-or-death emergency are a tiny bit different to taking advantage of an ATM glitch to get yourself a new TV.

While there are definitely people struggling in the way @maccored suggests, I don't believe for a second that the majority (or even a particularly large minority) of those out grabbing money they didn't have from the ATMs fall into that group.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121012692#Comment_121012692

Fair enough point in a general picture, but in the context of the situation being referenced - the Bank of Ireland ATM issue - the stealing was wrong.

If you are really poor and destitute in Ireland, you don't have access to a Bank of Ireland debit card.

I find it difficult to believe there is anyone out there who took the money and spent it on food for their children.

maccored

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121012587#Comment_121012587

im not arguing there. you though seem to have completely brushed aside that there were many more than likely feeding their kids than buying tvs. Theres always people who take advantage. my point is - and the point SF were making I would assume - is too many people have very little money in a country that is supposed to be wealthy

maccored

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121012692#Comment_121012692

i'd say theres enough to make the point. We havent the data to make those kinds of statements in either direction, but I wouldnt doubt there are people who took it because they needed it for survival. I also dont doubt a lot of idiots thought they were pulling a fast one, but then again common sense is pretty uncommon.

maccored

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121013899#Comment_121013899

If you are really poor and destitute in Ireland, you don't have access to a Bank of Ireland debit card.

I find it difficult to believe there is anyone out there who took the money and spent it on food for their children.

I find both those statements astounding naive

blackwhite

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120975444#Comment_120975444

The nomination of Tony Geraghty as a candidate in Mayo shows and active and on-going courting of far-right votes.

The apparent lack of vetting of candidates is astounding

L1011

There's also a councillor with social media activity that would have you booted out of any actual left wing party.

FrancieBrady

Hmmm if we are going to pick out weird and whacky councillors, can we do it for all parties, that would be a fun project.

I asked a simple question, are these councillors changing central party policy, if they are, where is it manifest in those policies?

blackwhite

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121017093#Comment_121017093

At the time of his selection he was being decsribed in the Connaught Telegraph as a Sinn Féin activist for many years who "played a key role nationally for the party in the success at the last general election"

He was selected by them less than 2 weeks ago. If that's not a case of actively courting far-right support then what is?

Just a reminder of the homophobic bile he was spouting.

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/something-rotten-revealed-in-society-s-underbelly-1.1217849

It was doing the rounds on twitter last week, but appears that national media have picked up on it today

No surprise that the usuals on here will try to pretend there's nothing to it.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121017188#Comment_121017188

So those hard right policies. Any sign?

What hard right policies is this guy proposing?