Sinn Féin finds further errors in 2020 election returns: 26th Jan 2023

Calahonda52

https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2023/0126/1352007-sinn-fein-politics/

Sinn Féin's 2020 election expenses statement to the Standards in Public Office Commission will have to be corrected again after the party found further errors in its returns.

Two invoices with sterling values of £4,800 and £800 were sent by the party to SIPO in 2020, but the euro value should have been returned.

This means the party under declared its election expenses for 2020 by €945.

A party spokesperson said: "This was an administrative error that should not have happened.

"It will be corrected and returned to SIPO.

"Both invoices were paid by the party in the south, at the following rates: Offline Central: €5601.25 and HotPress Sound: €943.96."

This will be the fourth time Sinn Féin has returned its 2020 election expenses to SIPO.

...

How long till they need to go again?

Danzy

Puck Money stuff on all sides.

blanch152

https://www.irishtimes.com/politics/2023/01/27/now-sinn-fein-feels-the-heat-on-election-spending/

Quite some number of changes being made.

You have to wonder how many more amended declarations are incoming?

FrancieBrady

They need to be held to account by SIPO and issued with the appropriate sanction.

L1011

Very, very stupid for SF to try pull at this thread too hard - indeed it would have been very stupid for any party to do so as I expect there's issues everywhere.

Pull too hard and volunteer canvassers will have to be accounted for as donations in kind.

Grassy Knoll

A complete misstep by Sinn Fein, they hounded an honest politician over what is Mickey Mouse money. Absolutely he should account correctly for his expenses, but to make a full week and a half national level drama out of it … add to this a man who gave back a lot in terms of public service - Mr Stone - has stood away from this. Who in their right mind would join a public board or get involved in this way …. Well done Mary Lou and co …

walterking

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120167571#Comment_120167571

If volunteer canvassers are held to account (and in a way they should be at minimum hourly rate and account for any expenses / meals paid for), then the sinn fein election returns would far exceed the maximum levels.

Bringing people in from other jurisdictions should also be accounted for in some manner. sinn fein always want a level playing field in the media, so why not on all aspects of an election?

Sam Russell

Since SF are an all island party, their all-island accounts for elections and general party expenditure should fall under the remit if SIPO as it is impossible to be sure that funds etc do not cross the non-existent border. It should include any donations from outside the island of Ireland.

Now that would put a halt to their gallop.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120168890#Comment_120168890

6 Opposition groups wanted answers from Paschal.

The media led FG v SF narrative is very destructive. Of course it wasn't that, but that is what we are routinely fed and it has now being presented as a win for Donohue because another party failed to account, which is obscence really.

They are two separate, different levels of wrongdoing. And shouild be dealt with on their own terms. Expenses versus donations and possible cronyism.

Grassy Knoll

Six opposition groups - sheep following SF … by any yardstick an over reaction… not getting the win for Donohoe piece to be honest… the sense I have is just people in glass houses etc and events backfiring on SF …

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120169734#Comment_120169734

'Sheep' is such an easy thing to say but harder to prove. The oppostion have no bother separating themselves on issues of importance to them. all 6 thought it important to ask questions here, from Roisin Shortall to Catherine Connolly.

 not getting the win for Donohoe piece to be honest

oh come on. immediately the SF stuff broke the cry went up. Peak vindication for Donohue coming from Stephen Collins in the IT,

At a time when politicians routinely face threats and intimidation, Opposition and media should think twice about launching a groundless campaign against a Minister

blondie uuuu

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058281434/sinn-fein-finds-further-errors-in-2020-election-returns-26th-jan-2023

Better they get people they're government are paying millions to cover them like POD?

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120169158#Comment_120169158

All that means now is that 5 opposition groups plus the 3 government parties want answers from Sinn Fein.

Every single day the list of Sinn Fein "mistakes" on election expenses gets longer and longer.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120177101#Comment_120177101

Who has tabled questions for SF?

Must have missed that.

blanch152

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/pearse-doherty-orders-local-sinn-fein-branches-to-pay-their-bills-after-party-left-poster-company-5000-out-of-pocket-42341534.html

Here we go again. I wonder whether these unpaid expenses were declared by either candidates or the party in 2014!!

There needs to be a complete root and branch examination of Sinn Fein finances. After all the fuss made about two men and a van helping Paschal, the C&AG should be sent into Sinn Fein.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120239386#Comment_120239386

We now have serial non-compliance with regulations from several parties and you only want an investigation of one party? Why is that?

blanch152

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/social-protection-minister-heather-humphreys-angers-sinn-fein-tds-by-raising-their-record-in-the-north-42342577.html

Like all bullies, they can dish it out, but when it comes back at them, they cry like babies.

"“So as far as the two faces of Sinn Fein are concerned - €320 isn’t good enough for the pensioner in Castleblayney but £140 pound is more than enough for the man from Crossmaglen,” she added."

That paragraph sums up the policy problem that Sinn Fein have, but their reaction tells a lot:

"A number of Sinn Féin TDs shouted at the minister when she finished her contribution.

During his contribution, Sinn Féin TD Sean Crowe accused the minister of “smirking” and “looking down on people”."

He later apologised but the remarks tell you a lot about the kind of person he is.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120241386#Comment_120241386

What has that to do with SF electoral expenses?

Finty Lemon

Pearse Doherty was very weak on Morning Ireland today. He sounds like a man who has checked out.

blanch152

https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2023/0218/1357498-sf-accounts/

It's a month now since this controversy started and Sinn Fein are still having to handle questions about their finances. Nothing like getting out early to get on top of a story.

FrancieBrady

However, they added that the matter had not progressed further.

Isn't it now for those who claimed there was an investigation by SIPO underway to 'progress' this story?

The ineffective shambles that SIPO has become under successive FG or FF led governments should be wound up and replaced with a proactive regulation body that has teeth. Has Peter Burke been hoist by the petard of his own party's unwillingness to have effective regulation?

blanch152

https://sluggerotoole.com/2023/02/20/sinn-fein-faces-serious-questions-on-party-funding/

This article pulls a number of the different strands on Sinn Fein's electoral funding together. Anyone who has any concern about transparency in politics would have to be deeply concerned about the way that Sinn Fein are managing their finances. Hand-waving it away won't work this time.

blanch152

https://www.ontheditch.com/sinn-fein-finance-director/

"Sinn Féin’s director of finance, who serves on the party’s ard comhairle, illegally converted an office into a "wholly substandard" apartment – in which his tenant is still living.

Louth-based landlord Des Mackin, who has been Sinn Féin’s finance director for more than two decades, owns at least 10 rental properties in the county – one of which is his own former council house.

When asked if it’s acceptable for a senior party official to provide tenants with illegal, substandard accommodation in the middle of a housing crisis, a Sinn Féin spokesperson said Mackin’s rental properties “are entirely a private matter for him”."

Wow, just wow. This makes TD landlords who have been in trouble look like angels in comparison. I mean, renting out his former council house, no wonder there is no social housing.

How much further have these stories about SF finances got to run? Someone needs to advise them how to get out early and get on top of bad news stories.

FrancieBrady

Good to see the Ditch silence it's critics and look into all parties.

This is indeed appalling and I hope he isn't let away with claiming he didn't know or it was somebody else's responsibility. Louth County Council need to take action.

SF need to drop him too.

redlough

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120275988#Comment_120275988

It's a low profile story leaked in the middle of a huge story about Sinn Fein so will get little traction.

Also been used by you and many as a reason why the Ditch is not biased. Even the major funder of the Ditch was jumping all over it on twitter so the motives would be clear.

This will be lost and everyone will move on with zero change in Sinn Fein.

If you want to show you are unbiased without doing any damage to Sinn Fein this is the perfect time and story to fire out.

Funny the Ditch running these stories when one of the main people involved doesn't seem to pay his own rent.

markodaly

https://twitter.com/Ballymagash_T/status/1628169601119821825

Saw this last night.

Interesting that SF NI have a different policy to SF ROI.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120276412#Comment_120276412

I am not naive enough not to see there is a ding dong battle going on between the vested interests in the media. The Times and Indo are flat out hitting back at negative government stories from the Ditch and The Village with stories about the Shinners and vice versa. It reached bizarre levels with the Indo's headline 'Relative Of A Sinn Féin TD Accused Of Raping Teenage Boy'. British tabloid style journaliam.

They have taken the story down, but the Indo knew well what it was doing. Prompted by a FG activist the IT ran the SF finances story and it remains to be seen if SIPO are even interested in it or will launch an investigation. Flimsy reporting again from a slant.

At least the Ditch back up what they say and put facts out there.

redlough

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120276647#Comment_120276647

So you claimed the Ditch was unbiased and now you are claiming the Ditch was biased?

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120276695#Comment_120276695

Unbiased was the wrong word probably. More focussed on government than opposition.

For Forks Sake

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120276695#Comment_120276695

Schrodingers Ditch

redlough

Seems a few people not falling for “The Ditch” expose, no idea how to link this on phone

Maybe The Ditch is holding back some info?

“I see Sinn Fein threw their finance director under a bus this evening. 

Very convenient timing as their finances come under scrutiny. 

What's not in the article is Mackins interest in properties in NI and Dublin also. It's not clear whether SF owns them or he does.”

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120277309#Comment_120277309

I would guess that the Belfast rent control issue is the story worth looking into. A lot of properties rented out in West Belfast.

blanch152

https://sluggerotoole.com/2023/02/23/des-mackins-erratic-record-in-party-and-personal-finance-has-been-the-public-domain-for-nearly-20-years/

Some further revelations about Des Mackin in this article.

"He oversaw the establishment of Research Services Ireland which over 10 years, enabled 36 different Sinn Féin MLAs to claim about £700,000 through Stormont expenses to pay Research Services Ireland, with no evidence any work was ever carried out."

I had heard some stuff about RSI but I didn't realise the bould Des was behind it and the amount of State money filtered away amounted to £700,000.

Slugger is right, this one could get even more interesting.

blanch152

https://www.thejournal.ie/sinn-fein-sloppiness-financial-statements-6019629-Mar2023/

Does anyone think that she would have accepted "sloppiness" and "inaccuracies" as an acceptable explanation from Paschal Donohoe? Or from others who have resigned?

Not a chance.

Different standards applied to themselves by Sinn Fein.

In reality, among FF and FG, there have been individuals who have transgressed SIPO guidelines from time to time, with Sinn Fein, it is institutional, systemic and consistent over elections for nearly a decade.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120361364#Comment_120361364

Not sure you understand 'institutional and systemic'.

I am sure I am not alone in losing count of those in FF and FG who have transgressed.

The reality is, they all have 'different standards' when it comes to their own.

We require a regulatory body with teeth. We will never get one from FF and FG.

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120361439#Comment_120361439

^ I'm pretty sure Simpsons did it:

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120363470#Comment_120363470

Did what?

redlough

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120361439#Comment_120361439

Leaving aside the other party references.

In regards to the last statement, with Sinn Fein issues with book keeping and questionable associates in the past and present. Donations floating around between the North and South. A property portfolio they won't confirm or deny what they have, or more interesting where they got it.

Why would you think they will put in regulator?

Let try to stick to Sinn Fein in the answer

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120407719#Comment_120407719

There is a regulator.

Will they give them the appropriate powers? No idea, but they will lose support if they don't.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120407719#Comment_120407719

The thread is about Sinn Fein problems with the election returns, particularly the institutional, systemic and systematic way that they have had errors in every single return. It isn't about other political parties, it isn't about the system. It isn't about an individual politicians here and there having an issue, this is about a whole party that repeatedly and consistently has got all of its election returns wrong.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120408048#Comment_120408048

 that repeatedly and consistently has got all of its election returns wrong.

How many elections and which ones?

redlough

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120407790#Comment_120407790

Didn't answer the question, these "errors" are an example of a number of issues with Sinn Fein, some others I outlined. So can you please explain to me why you think Sinn Fein would give a regulator powers which will mean they will have to answer some very hard questions which would result in lost voters?

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120408643#Comment_120408643

I think you'll find they are 'other issues' YOU have with SF.

I don't see Revenue, SIPO or The Gardai interested in these issues so I will await for that. They are the people vested with regulating them.

I don't think anyone here would be allowed claim any other party has issues without some sort of verified back-up.

I did answer your question BTW. Here it is again:

There is a regulator.

Will they give them the appropriate powers? No idea, but they will lose support if they don't.

redlough

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120408980#Comment_120408980

The thread is about Sinn Fein.

Tiresome rubbish as usual and you didn’t answer

You didn’t answer because you know Sinn Fein as a party will never give power to regulators/Gardai/Courts etc. Watch them run out of the Dail when they might of upset the criminal by been part of a special Criminal Court vote.

I wonder how popular Sinn Fein would be if they did decide to be transparent? Explain the property portfolio etc. not very I would hazard a guess

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120409490#Comment_120409490

That is an 'opinion' and you are entitled to it.

My opinion is I don't know if they will give the appropriate powers.

If they don't they will lose support as they will be just as bad as the incumbents on the issue of accountability.

blanch152

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-41057093.html

Six separate events not declared in 2016.

https://www.irishtimes.com/politics/2023/01/26/sinn-fein-made-two-more-errors-in-2020-election-expenses-statement/

Numerous errors in 2020 election expenses, and three errors in 2019 European elections.

https://www.irishtimes.com/politics/2023/01/27/sinn-fein-faces-sipo-complaint-over-abu-database/

The questions over whether the Abu database was an election expense extend back over several elections including those already mentioned. Remember, the excuse for misusing personal data in the Abu database was because it was for electoral purposes and not for keeping tabs on people, yet it never featured in election expenses returns. Go figure!

So adding up that in total, questions over expenses returns at national level for the 2019 European election, 2016 and 2020 general elections, as well as for all elections that the Abu database was in place. Pretty much the definition of institutional, systemic and consistent.

Them's the facts, have an opinion about the facts, but don't deny the facts.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120409881#Comment_120409881

That's 3 Elections.

There are no outstanding questions (except from yourself) about Abu, from the regulators.

Here's your original claim. It's as usual, exaggerated and sensationalist. Go figure.

 that repeatedly and consistently has got all of its election returns wrong.

Do you still stand over the bolded bit?

P.S. In that final article, there seems to be contradictions, The headline says 'SF faces an investigation', then the journalist says that 'SIPO are investigating a complaint' while at the same time reporting SIPO as saying 'Sipo told The Irish Times that it could not comment on an individual case'.

Do we know if SIPO are actively investigating Sinn Fein? They claim there is no investigation:

https://www.irishtimes.com/politics/2023/02/24/sinn-fein-denies-investigation-by-watchdog-over-alleged-discrepancies-in-financial-returns/

In the same way we know they are investigating others, eg: A senior member of FG has recused himself because a SIPO investigation into him is underway.

Mr xxxxxxx said he had received confirmation of this complaint on Friday, though he had been made aware a complaint was likely weeks previously.

Since his ministry involves overseeing the electoral ethics watchdog Sipo, Mr xxxxxx said he was recusing himself from making certain decisions in relation to Sipo until it makes a decision.

I am nopt trying to deflect to the subject of the SIPO complaint above, I'm just asking you can you point to any evidence that there is a SIPO investigation ongoing into the things you have issue with?

blanch152

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/watchdog-investigates-sinn-fein-election-spending-returns-which-fail-to-mention-voter-database/1841306941.html

The denial of reality continues.

"However, Sinn Féin confirmed it had received correspondence from the body and “looks forward to engaging” on the issue."

The investigation is ongoing on the Abu database. It is another example of Sinn Fein trying to box clever and getting caught out. In order to sneak under the DPC investigation, it had to claim that the database was for electoral purposes, but because the expenses were not in its returns to SIPO, it either lied to the DPC or it submitted more false returns to SIPO.

This is further evidence that the SF approach is systemic and systematic. These are national returns. Every important national election over the last decade is covered by this.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120410269#Comment_120410269

Your article is dated 27th of Jan. 2023

Mary Lou claimed there was no SIPO investigation in Feb 2023.

Can you point to an ongoing investigation into the Abu database? I'm not aware of one.

Your opinion is your own, but isn't the back-up I am looking for here.

redlough

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120410269#Comment_120410269

Wasting valuable time to be honest.

Mary Lou could drive down the road, go up onto the footpath, run over a group of children, live TV coverage of it happening and I am sure some posters on here would say it was the children's fault for not getting out of the way. Tiresome rubbish is posted as I already said.

The laughable thing is trying to suggest that Sinn Fein would introduce regulations and give a regulator power to shut down Sinn Fein itself.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120410573#Comment_120410573

I agree completely. The Gospel of Mary-Lou is the one creed.

Even look at the article referenced. Complaint is made, SIPO write to SF, SF responds. At that particular point in time, there is no formal investigation per se. Mary-Lou can make the statement she made, and the credulous can swallow her words.

In reality, the matter is still under investigation until such time as SIPO make a decision there is no case to answer or launch a formal investigation.

A really clear example of politician speak at work.