Meter & Tariff Compatibility

top floor

Hello folks. I have a simpler but more confusing problem. I currently have a day/night meter and day/night tarrif.

Want to move to a simple 24 hour tarrif which technically should not need a new meter? But Electric Ireland insist that that ESB Networks levy a charge of €194 for meter exchange for the change as it is not possible for the day/night meter to return total 24 our rate usage. "This is due to unit rates being specific to each meter type: a Single Tariff meter (24hr meter) can only have the 24 hour tariff applied to it and the Double Tariff meter (Day/Night meter) can only have the day rate and night rate applied to them. It is not possible to "add up" day and night usage and then apply the unit rate for the 24 hour meter due to this."

This is surely not correct? If not true than who do I approach to get them to change the tarriff without a meter change?

jkforde

afaik, there are separate 24hr and D\N meters, you can't have a 24hr tariff on a D\N meter.

graememk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120121666#Comment_120121666

The digital meters (non smart) do both.

There is 3 readings 24hr, day, night.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120121545#Comment_120121545

What do you have in the meter box?

Manion

I believe the issue is that the way readings are calculated is set out for different tariffs and meter types in legislation. I've a digital meter for instance that records total usage and day/night usage all separately. On another thread a user referenced the particular regs requiring you to have your energy reading available directly at premises, not calculated.

top floor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120121756#Comment_120121756

The meter is a "Domestic Electronic" the "Day & Night Electronic Meter" as shown in the second image down at https://www.esbnetworks.ie/existing-connections/meters-and-readings/how-to-read-your-meter/electronic-domestic-meters

It actually cycles through 3 readings when you press the button. Day, night and a third which is the total of the other 2 so presumably that is the 24 hour reading.

jkforde

so the ESBN page you linked shows that there is a 24hr electronic meter for 24hr tariffs, and a separate D\N electronic meter for D\N tariffs (unless they are the same physical unit and configured by ESBN on foot of a specific end user request.)

what you refer to as a "24hr reading" may well be a sum of the day + night units but has nothing to do with a 24hr tariff on that meter.

Manion

Ah right, that's a load of nonsense, I've the same meter. Just sign up for a 24 hour tarrif with another provider.

graememk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120122812#Comment_120122812

"Switching meters," on a digital meter like that, does mean the esbn comes out, sees it that it is a a digital one, takes the day/night read, 24 hr read and then all other reads just read the 24 hr one.

It's a grey area, the have the option of charging.. but usually don't..

Op, why you looking to change?

Nelbert

I have one of those digital meters.... Electric Ireland hadn't a clue.... ESB networks confirmed before calling out that it was a setting on the meter that needed changing not a meter replacement.

Electric Ireland kept talking about a physical meter swap.

End result, I was in work and missed his call but meter is accessible - ESB tech came looked at the meter, may or may not have changed anything and left - he was leaving as I returned his call 2-3 minutes after his arrival. Vague recollection of him saying he called in to change it to D/N as in update ESB meter readers database, if such a thing exists.

I checked my online account and a 24hr, day and night reading were populated. So he took a 24hr reading to close, then took the starting day and night readings.

Side note - it was tough to get Electric Ireland to raise the switching ticket with ESB until I threatened contract termination (I'd signed up for D/N while on a 24hr tariff as I didn't realise the hornets nest this is). ESB wouldn't really deal with me bar my queries about the meter until the ticket was raised but once it was I chased them up and it was done within a few days.

ELM327

With the new electronic Day Night meters they can do both. Supplier companies dont see this, all meter exchanges require a job request to networks. In reality all that needs to happen is an MCC change.

top floor

Thanks folks for all the replies.

Reason interested in changing is that looking at recent bills the profile of usage has changed with less overall usage and higher percent of units on the daytime part of the tarriff and less on the night. Saving would be made by move to 24 hours tarriff although not huge difference.

Nelbert can I ask did you have to pay for the technicians visit in the end?

Manion

I did the same, no charge. I'm actually not sure he did anything at site other than take the readings but maybe he did. It was less than a minute total.

KCross

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120124044#Comment_120124044

although not huge difference

Think carefully then, because if you were to decide in future to switch back to day/night (addition of a EV or something) they will definitely charge you to switch back.

You dont really need to use that much at night to justify having day/night. Some immersion heating, delay timers on appliances and you are at break even. Add an EV or a heat pump etc and you will be saving alot of money to be on day/night.

ELM327

Just 20-30% of night use makes it make sense. Don't change IMO. Even with no storage and no EV at our old place we still were at 40% Night - everything has timers these days.

Nelbert

There was no charge for the tech visit for me either.

Agree with elm327 day / night exc standing Charge makes sense at 12.5% night usage which you may already exceed. Mine is 40% ( much more in the days after a reminder it's cheaper to do early morning wash and dry) plus in winter but lower in summer (heat pump for heating).

I never cared much about usage (just change supplier for cost) until house was renovated and I got energy monitoring.... Quickly realised D/N made sense with existing usage volume and pattern.

foleyd

I had a smart meter installed last year. Having recently purchased an EV, I contacted my provider to understand available tariffs. The cheapest night tariff is 20.17 (with day @ 50.62). They can also offer night @ 24.5 (with day @ 45.76). I also understand that I can change my smart meter for a day/night meter @ a cost of €208 and this will give me night @ 13.75 and day @ 47.77. Wanted to get this forums views on this. Very strange that I have to swap out the smart meter? Is there another way?

Jonathan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120348529#Comment_120348529

Don't bother. It seems the Energia D/N Ev tariff is no longer offered.

foleyd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120348544#Comment_120348544

I have been offered D/N tariff but need to swap out meter.

ELM327

It no longer exists.

Also, swapping meter is free, it doesnt cost 208.

Gooser14

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120352322#Comment_120352322

There is an Energia smart meter EV plan. Not sure whether this new or has been available for some time. This plan has an EV charging window of 2am to 6am @ 12.64 cent/kWh incl VAT & 10% discount. It is a 24 month contract.

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120352388#Comment_120352388

Yes that has been available for some time, but it's only 4 hours.

slave1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120352388#Comment_120352388

Did you look at the day and peak rates on that plan!!

Gooser14

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120352688#Comment_120352688

Yes I did. If I had a smart meter & EV it is not a plan I would select.

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120353116#Comment_120353116

If you have a smart meter, an EV, and a load of household storage it may work if you don't drive much.

4 hours at 7kW would give you 25-26kWh into your EV and possibly then another 20kWh into the house batteries. That would cover me 6 days out of 7.

DC999

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120353116#Comment_120353116

What are they? I'll be changing meters soon and was looking at Energia as being the keenest on a few tariffs. Maybe that ship has sailed :(

Jonathan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120354337#Comment_120354337

Noticed today that the Energia EV tariff only allows 1000kWh at EV rate (12.24c) per billing cycle, or 16.6kWh per night. Anything over that is charged at 23.75c. That means the fourth EV rate hour isn't all that useful.

https://www.energia.ie/privacy/terms-and-conditions

Pinergy on the other hand appear to be offering three hours uncapped usage at 6.92c.

https://pinergy.ie/terms-conditions/tariffs/

graememk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120380740#Comment_120380740

Nevermind the 4th hr the 3rd hr isn't that useful

Jonathan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120380839#Comment_120380839

Your 16kVA connection could have you at the limit in an hour. 😂

CramCycle

I stopped reading, so apologies if someone has already said it. For the d/n/p, just make d and p the same price and ta da, you have a d/n meter.

Rocket scientists they aren't in ESBn

graememk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120380985#Comment_120380985

Yeah we know all that. but there must be something in the rules/regs/whatever that to be compatible with a D/N tariff you need to press a button and it to show at least.

Day

Night.

The current (digital) day/night meters show (other than date and time)

24hrsand

Day

Night

The current smart meters have (on the display)

24hr

Day

Night

Peak

And, export, apparent power,

i think they are bringing out new smart meters that also have the standard day/night tariff selections in them. then they can swap them like they do with 24hr meters, without a change in plan.