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Is Elon Musk hurting Tesla? (Mod Note Post #1)

1131416181971

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,353 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    It's now the judges fault for pulling that his 56 billion pay package was unduly out of line due to board influence...


    He's a menace


    Screenshot_20240130_224621_Chrome.jpg




  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Sniff, I'm so focused on this man ;-)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,353 ✭✭✭✭listermint




  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Just thought I'd interact with your monologue here.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,353 ✭✭✭✭listermint




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,353 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    I see he's held a public vote on his rant site to decide where to headquarter tesla , texas won. He's such a rationale figure and really good for business and shareholders..



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 42,182 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    I see his Nurolink venture has carried out its first implantation. Some massive consequences for millions of people if this works out. Great to see.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,353 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    Yep ... not vapourware at all. Sure we'll all be not driving driving next week. After all sure it's a software company. But it's not. But it is But it's not.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,420 ✭✭✭...Ghost...


    I'm getting a slight vibe that you don't like Elon Musk 😁

    Stay Free



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,353 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    What?

    Sure we're out for pints on Friday night. Should see him in the whatsapp this week. Nightmare.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,998 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    While I agree that a device like Neurolink could have massive positives for people living with disabilities, I'm slightly unconvinced it'll be all that it promises considering who's in charge of the company

    So far Elon's biggest accomplishment there seems to have been impregnating one of the executives, behaviour which would have gotten any other CEO sacked

    Anyway, if Elon sticks one in his head and survives then maybe I'll consider it. Much like how you shouldn't trust a chef who doesn't eat his own food, don't trust a rocket man who doesn't sit in his own rockets 😉

    Also, apparently this was enough to drag me out of hiding 😂

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,000 ✭✭✭sk8board


    Wasn’t aware of this thread at all.

    i think the notion that Musk isn’t harming Tesla car sales is a bit disingenuous.

    both my wife and I have changed cars lately and Tesla was on both shopping lists and were ruled out because of the Must association. We just felt the musk association has created a ‘Tesla driver’ vibe to owning a Tesla (like ‘BMW driver’ in the 00’s or ‘Audi driver’ in the 10’s).

    it’s definitely ‘Tesla driver’ now, and musk just seems to cultivate what it means to be a ‘Tesla driver’ - I must stress this is our own opinion, but it’s also our own money being spent, so …

    a car is just a car to us, we don’t want to spend €100k on 2 cars and be judged for it. We just want a car



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,998 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    Ah jaysis, I thought this thread has died already 😂

    I suppose now that we're a few months on since the start of the thread we can start to draw some conclusions

    In general, Tesla sales haven't cratered and are still increasing. They don't seem to be going up at the rate the shareholders want, but that seems more down to market forces than Elon's antics

    I do feel there's been something of a mental distancing between Tesla and Elon recently. Examples would be Tesla starting to do their own marketing instead of just getting Elon to post about it on Twitter

    As for the owners getting abuse, well I think there's a certain anti EV crowd who will pick on Tesla owners no matter what. It might just be me but it seems like the attacks are less about attacking Elon now and just directed at Tesla owners

    It was pretty funny a while back when Elon starting bringing up carbon taxes again and his new right wing fanboys reacted about as badly as you'd expect

    I do think he's causing Tesla some issues in more obscure ways

    There have been several cases recently where senior engineers from Tesla were redirected into doing work at Twitter or xAI. I've no issues with people having multiple jobs, and it makes sense to reuse resources across companies in a group

    The problem is none of those companies are in partnership with Tesla (and in the case of xAI, is arguably a competitor) so none of these shared resources deliver extra value to Tesla, and likely costs them because they're losing some of their most valuable engineers

    As CEO, it's Elon's job to deliver maximum return to the shareholders, and in this instance it looks like he isn't doing that. I'm pretty sure if he was anyone else he'd have gotten fired for diverting company resources elsewhere

    One other example of Elon hurting Tesla is the Cybertruck. I'll say straight away, the CT was a divisive vehicle from it's announcement and I never thought it would sell as well as some speculators were saying

    However, it looks like there was a lot more promised than delivered and some of that is arguably up to fulfilling some of Elon's more insane requests

    The windscreen wiper saga, if true, would be a particular example. For anyone who hasn't heard it, apparently Elon insisted on keeping the single wiper blade despite the fact that it needs to swipe more than 50% of the windscreen.

    This presents some difficulty so the designers wanted to switch to a different wiper design but the boss man said no and now the wiper has to move laterally while wiping as well, resulting in one of the most complex wiper mechanisms evet designed

    Any other company would have just ditched the idea and saved money when they saw the idea wasn't worth the hassle. Now sometimes it's benefitted Tesla when Elon stuck to his guns in the face of adversity, but lately he seems to be coming out with a lot more bad ideas than gold ones

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,353 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    The Cybertruck is a massive failure. There's no need to mull over micro details like window wipers. It's one big boil on the arse of the company and I'd imagine a large financial crater too.

    It'll probably quickly fall out of the news as they press into budget vehicle mode delivering the 2. You won't hear about CT any longer. Big mistake vehicle



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 42,182 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    People are 100% entitled to spend their money on whatever they want. But when you see weird associations of “I’m not driving a Tesla because I don’t like Musk” , but I’ll drive a Chinese car that supports that regime or a VW despite their customer service and fraud convictions and suspicious beginning's, it reminds me of this……

    IMG_0664.jpeg

    I for one am glad no CEO comes as an optional extra in any of my cars.

    The burning question of the thread is the same though, and the answer has to be no based on worldwide sales.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,353 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    We've moved on from the tenious and not linear relationship of every single Chinese manufacturer to their entire government. It was a silly argument then and it's still silly now.

    The Chinese government isn't making any manufacturer make a vanity 4x4 and pissing profits up the wall at a whim



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 42,182 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    Equally, people should move on from the tesla/musk association. It’s Private business, private money.

    The company can do what they want with it. It pisses a few people off in Ireland is irrelevant tbh. They can stick to the Chinese cars, tech etc that they are all built from. Tesla included.

    We will see the outcome from the EU tariff implications onto Chinese manufacturers shortly I suppose.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,353 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    No you don't get to wipe away his direct involvement in the decisions plans and designs. It's simply not the same at all.

    He is directly involved and was central to the failed cybertruck , I think we can refer to it as that now.

    The push to defend him personally is still the weirdest part...



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 42,182 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    I wouldn’t defend him personally but I do find the weirdest that people constantly post about why they won’t buy a Tesla because of him but will buy a Chinese brand, a VW with their past, a Merc with their past etc



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,998 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    Grabs popcorn...

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



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  • Posts: 2,704 [Deleted User]


    You must be incredibly insecure to let the opinions of others influence your purchasing decisions. Buy/don't buy a Tesla if you want, but to not get one because you feel others will judge you is strange. Anyone that judges someone based on what car they drive is a moron and best ignored.



  • Posts: 2,704 [Deleted User]


    The Chinese state subsidising the likes of BYD to the tune of billions is certainly not tenious.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,409 ✭✭✭✭prawnsambo


    Tesla makes most, if not all of its profits from US government subsidies.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,000 ✭✭✭sk8board


    Any of you who thinks the notion of the ‘Tesla driver’ is not a thing, and isn’t cultivated by the association to Musk, is living in an alterior universe.

    many of us just don’t want to be that persona.

    lots of people WE ALL know tell us that they won’t have a Tesla because of that association.

    the German stuff from WW2 or byd getting Chinese gov funding misses the point - it’s the connection to a singular individual that we all relate to, positively and negatively. No other car manufacturer has such an individual.

    this isn’t a decision about which brand of cereal to buy - it’s a €100k decision for 2 cars, and Musks association with Tesla was part of our decision. That’s literally all I’m saying (and it’s the title of the thread!)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,998 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    This is something of a sticking point between the EU, US and China at the moment

    The latter two are becoming more and more protectionist to the expense of the EU which is still very much anchored in free trade

    To some degree, I've no sympathy for most EU based manufacturers and policy makers (not just in the auto industry). They've been sitting on their hands for the last 15 years thinking they had a monopoly on brain cells and that China would stick to low cost manufacturing forever and never develop their own products and sell them into the EU market

    However I do believe in the concept of a level playing field, and China and the US are effectively forcing out foreign manufacturers but throw a tantrum whenever they get called out on it or another country blocks import of their products

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,023 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    I find Shane Coleman obnoxious in the mornings it doesn't stop me listening to Newstalk.

    Where's the total lunatic coming from though, what's he done to be classed as one? I see someone fighting for free speech, childrens rights, against uncontrolled immigration, anti government propaganda etc.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,000 ✭✭✭sk8board


    Trade wars has almost zero similarity to do with the Musk association with Tesla hampering Joe Public’s car buying decision

    having Elon musk in the news on a daily basis for many years forces us all to have an opinion, or a bias, one way or the other - it’s how he makes us ‘feel’.

    i don’t think many people have a particular feeling about company associations with governments, or nazis or whatever.

    again - that’s the title of the thread. I’m simply suggesting that this association exists, and the longer it goes on, the harder it will be for Tesla to grow its sales (they’re a publicly traded company, and musk has a legal fiduciary duty)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,998 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    I reckon your first line captures it all, he isn't helping

    If you're the board of a company (and you aren't members of the church of Elon) then you'd be expecting your global celebrity CEO who is taking home a salary package worth billions to be adding some significant value to the company

    While Elon probably isn't costing Tesla a load of sales, he isn't exactly helping either from the looks of things

    To put it a different way, if Tesla fired Elon tomorrow and replaced him with one of the bland dime a dozen CEOs who seem to run every other company, would that cost Tesla any business?

    Yeah I'm sure there'd be something of a mass sell off from his acolytes, but I doubt overall sales figures would drop

    So in theory if they got a cheaper CEO it would be an overall saving for the company

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 416 ✭✭Woodie40


    Musk is presently associated with the company, bringing up associations that other brands have had in the last century is not valid.

    He definitely harms the brand, we would not want to be associated with or line the pockets of such a toxic individual.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,998 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    Hey you should know the thread title and what's being discussed have a dubious connection at the best of times 😉

    As I said, I think the majority of customers seem to be able to mentally separate Tesla and Elon. But there's no doubt that the association is there and for some people it's enough to stop them buying

    However it's worth asking the question of how many of those people who swear off Tesla because of Elon Musk would have actually bought a Tesla otherwise

    It's definitely a non zero number, but I'm not convinced it's a big enough cohort to affect sales significantly

    For my own viewpoint, I don't like Elon and really never have. Always reckoned he was more of a salesman dressed as an engineer

    I also don't want to buy a Tesla, but if Elon got fired tomorrow I still wouldn't want one. I just don't like the Tesla styling and the selling points of them don't interest me

    So for me Elon's antics don't hurt Tesla because I wouldn't have been a customer anyway

    I suppose it'd be interesting to see if Tesla made a car I really like and Elon was still in charge, would I buy it then...🤔

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



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