Is Elon Musk hurting Tesla? (Mod Note Post #1)

sk8board

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123477283#Comment_123477283

they pumped billions into its development and bringing it to fruition, and told the stock market to price in 250,000 sales per year. It was never supposed to be niche as such, just ‘different’ (even if we all knew what was going to happen).

I know I’m a broken record on this, but I’ll say it again - the CEO of a public company has a legal fiduciary duty to deliver shareholder value and not mislead shareholders.

So when they say 250,000 annual sales, that’s the legitimate potential.

in reality the biggest ever month for CT deliveries was 5000 (July 2024), and in 2025 to date it’s running under 2,000 deliveries per month, with 5-6 full months of stock sitting idle, and production of the CT has been almost reduced to zero, with staff on those lines moved elsewhere

sk8board

”it’s a bit dramatic to say that panels are falling off”

This isn’t even some one-off from the corners of the internet - it’s happening enough to warrant another full recall.

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123477283#Comment_123477283

I don't think it's even popular in those circles, main customer seems to be influencers, Chechen warlords and people looking to bribe Trump

Okay fine, there's only one example each of the last two 😁

But I agree, it's a product which was polarising from the announcement. It generated hype on promising to do everything a pickup could do for an affordable price and also be this ultra high tech, impervious suburban tank

It's failed on almost all of those and sales are a flop because of that

I think a lot of reservation holders would have followed through if they'd gotten some of those right but they're seeing no reason to buy now

Duplex140

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123477634#Comment_123477634

Your quotes seem to be suggesting that is what I posted, which it is not.

I actually couldn't give 2 **** about the cybertruck. No interest in it whatsoever and I think its ugly, like an SUV delorient.

So I'm not sure what you're trying to convince me of. That its a bad car and sales are awful? I think we are actually in agreement.

Now if you've something bad to say about about the new model Y (that doesn't involve politics), I'll argue with you all day long 😆

prawnsambo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123477406#Comment_123477406

No I got your point. But based on he initial interest and reservations for it, the interest was much higher than just a niche market. Reportedly over a million people had signed up and paid deposits.

The subsequent delays and faults put a lot of people off and demand fell like a stone.

sk8board

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123478112#Comment_123478112

apologies. You said “I think its a bit dramatic to say its falling apart.”

replies have shown that yes indeed it is falling apart and that it’s not being dramatic, it’s actually just normal now for the CT.

Nothing else in my message, no worries.
No one outside of NA should care less about thr CT, it’s like worrying about trim on the Ford F150 - but it’s a fascination all the same :)

prawnsambo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123478313#Comment_123478313

Except it wasn't me who said that. You're having a bit of a mare here. 🤣

yagan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123478313#Comment_123478313

Did someone on this thread already have a link showing the CT has had at least 14 recalls since release?

Yip, this one's the fix.

sk8board

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123479190#Comment_123479190

relax 🙄, boards on safari doesn’t quote the right post even when you quote that post, and reverts to quoting the last post in the thread.

Indeed, boards on safari is barely usable lately

MojoMaker

Safari? Is it 2016 again? 😂

DrPsychia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123481712#Comment_123481712

Some of us avocado on toast lovers also own iPhones and Macbooks!

eightieschewbaccy

https://www.cnbc.com/2025/05/27/tesla-europe-sales-plunge-49percent-as-elon-musk-brand-fallout-continues.html

Tesla sales down nearly 50% in Europe, I recall when it was claimed that things would pick up with the freshened up Model Y. The reality is the brand is suffering substantially, Musk's politics definitely holds a role in this but also the lack of actually delivering anything new or interesting.

There's also the ironically double edged sword to getting rid of Musk. Tesla becoming a more normal car company is needed to actually sell cars but Tesla's meme stock value likely collapses if he goes. Equally though if Trump were to significantly turn on Musk, that could hit it as a meme stock as well so he poses a risk either way in that sense. And Trump turning on Musk is slowly happening I think.

sk8board

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123489639#Comment_123489639

here’s the Tesla CEO’s reply to that -49%, at the Qatar visit with Trump last week:

“Mr Musk (53) downplayed the extent of Tesla’s challenges, saying “it’s already turned around”.

When challenged on this – the carmaker’s vehicle sales continued to plunge across Europe’s biggest electric vehicle markets in April – Mr Musk said that the region is the company’s weakest, but that it’s strong everywhere else.

“Our sales are doing well at this point,” he said. “We don’t anticipate any meaningful sales shortfall.”

So - Nothing to see here, everything is fine. Until the Q2 deliveries come out in early July and it turns out he’s just lying again.

unkel

Yet the share is shooting up. It seems investors agree with above point from Musk that car sales strongly down in Europe is meaningless in the longer term profitability of Tesla

Nickindublin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123489831#Comment_123489831

I was looking at a video last night about the Cybertruck and he was basically saying in it that when you buy a Tesla the car will appreciate in value. The person showing the clip didnt know whether he meant the Cybertruck or all Teslas as he said Tesla when talking about the Cybertruck. I would take to much notice of the share price. Probably maninly held by large investment funds who wont ditch it en masse. Im sure anyone on this thread with a private pension fund has some of it invested in Tesla.

sk8board

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123489967#Comment_123489967

to be fair to musk, he said once the sales start to show signs of slowing that if you’re invested in tesla as a car business and are questioning quarterly delivery numbers etc etc, you should sell the shares and leave - we’re not a car company etc etc etc.

Their business-wide operating margin in q1 was something like 1-2%, so the car sales has a direct impact on R&D for the other projects.

That said, the future potential revenue streams from cybertaxi, energy, robots, Tesla ai, & FSD all carry huge risk.

Bear in mind that for the current SP justification to make sense, all 5 of those projects would need to be global home-runs, delivering billions each, every quarter. It’s so so hard to see it

unkel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123490461#Comment_123490461

Agree with most of that except that I find it very easy to see most of those will make a lot of money 😂

unkel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123490200#Comment_123490200

Musk has been saying that for years. His reasoning is that if you own a Tesla with FSD, you are allowed to enter it into the fleet of robotaxis. The car will make you a chunk of money while you are not using it. As opposed to any other car, which generates no revenue so just depreciates.

prawnsambo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123490953#Comment_123490953

What a utopian vision. You go to bed at night while your car heads out to the red light districts to earn some extra money for you. 🤣

eightieschewbaccy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123490953#Comment_123490953

And given his long term history of making promises that don't come to fruition, I'm inclined to say they're false promises.

Duplex140

No amount of money would convince me to let my car out as a taxi and have to spend my Sunday cleaning up puke and other hard to remove stains. Imagine dropping the kids to school on a Monday. Daddy, what's that smell?!

sk8board

insurance companies will have a big say in your car moonlighting as a taxi.

Under current regulations, it’s the provider of level 3 driverless cars that assume the insurance liability, and not you. It’s the one driving after all.
It’s a huge hurdle, but ensures the manufacturers don’t cut corners when perfecting the tech. cough cough

MJohnston

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123489831#Comment_123489831

Just to highlight the misinformation on Musk's part, he said in the exact same visit that all manufacturers were seeing EV sales down in Europe, which is absolutely not true (they're up 26%):

https://bsky.app/profile/mmasnick.bsky.social/post/3lq6nkpwuw22v

DrPsychia

https://www.wired.com/story/theres-a-very-simple-pattern-to-elon-musks-broken-promises/

Despite a reported 71 percent drop in profits and falling sales for Tesla's cars and Cybertruck in April, Musk asserted the company's future is "brighter than ever," envisioning Tesla as the world's leading robotics company. He claims demand for his robots will be "insatiable," potentially numbering "tens of billions" and becoming akin to personal C-3PO or R2-D2 units. He urged investors to focus on the value of Tesla's "affordable AI-powered robots" rather than the non-autonomous car business.

The article chronologically reviews 19 years of Musk's unfulfilled promises:

Affordable Family Car (2006-present): In 2006, Musk promised a low-cost family car, reiterated in 2016 for "Master Plan, Part Deux." Although he stated in January this year that production would begin in the second half of 2025, Reuters reported in April that these plans were scrapped in favour of focusing on robotaxis. Musk denied this, but Reuters stood by its report.

Hyperloop (2013-2023): Musk proposed the Hyperloop in 2013, envisioning capsules travelling at over 600 miles per hour. Despite claims as late as 2022 that it could connect Boston and New York City in under half an hour, the project was shuttered in 2023. A passenger test achieved a speed of 107 mph, significantly less than proposed. It's alleged Musk floated the idea to undermine California's high-speed rail project.

Full Self-Driving (2013-present): Musk made numerous predictions about achieving FSD, consistently stating it would be ready within "about three years" or "next year."

• In 2013, he suggested 90 percent autonomous miles within three years.
• In October 2015, he promised full autonomy in "about three years," revised to "approximately two years" by December 2015.
• January 2016 saw a prediction of summoning cars from across the country within two years.
• June 2016: FSD was a "basically solved problem," less than two years away.
• November 2018: FSD by "next year."
• January 2019: FSD by the "end of this year," with certainty a month later.
• April 2019: "Feature-complete in self-driving this year," and no need to touch the wheel by the second quarter of next year.
• January 2021: Confident the car would drive itself with "reliability in excess of a human this year," but by December, he said it was "quite likely" next year.
• May 2023: Full autonomy would happen "this year."

Autonomous Charging (2016): Musk aimed for a full autonomous cross-country drive from LA to New York, including self-charging, by the end of 2017. A "snake-like" charger was trialled but never produced.

The Boring Company (2017-present): Musk introduced the concept of underground tunnels for cars travelling at 125 mph, aiming to build "one mile of tunnel per week." So far, only the 1.7-mile LVCC Loop in Las Vegas exists, where chauffeur-driven Teslas travel at 15 mph when congested.

Neuralink Brain Chips (2017-present): Musk predicted Neuralink's first product in "about four years" in 2017. Seven years later, in 2024, the first human trial subject received an implant.

Tesla Self-Delivery (2018): Musk stated Teslas would be self-delivered to customers' doors in "about a year."

One Million Robotaxis (2019): Musk claimed "over a million robotaxis on the road" by 2020. In April this year, he announced a robotaxi service unveiling in Austin, Texas, next month, starting with up to 20 Model Y vehicles, a stark contrast to his 2019 prediction.

Level 5 Autonomy (2020): Musk stated Level 5 autonomy would happen "this year" in July 2020, and was "100 percent" confident it would happen next year in December 2020. As recently as April this year, he predicted millions of fully autonomous Teslas in the second half of next year.

Optimus Humanoid Robots (2021-present): Musk has promised a "robot buddy" that can clean, mow lawns, walk dogs, teach, and babysit, with production of 5,000 this year and 50,000 next year. He later escalated this to "tens of millions" or "maybe 100 million robots a year." There is no launch date yet.

meat eating green

Auto-sabotage

Also known as self sabotage is a psychological disorder but Musk has brought it to a new level by including corporate destruction.

He has aligned with the right wing who can’t stand EVs and he has alienated his customer base.

It will be a case study for decades to come.

sk8board

Just looking at model Y sales in Ireland for Jan-Apr of the 3 years it’s been on sale, and it’s never really been much, I don’t know why I thought it was more, maybe it’s because I’m in Dublin commuter-land and we have a bunch of them about:

2023: 710

2024: 369

2025: 242

The juniper would need to be an overwhelming sales success in Ireland for it to surpass the one year that the Y sold in any meaningful volume, 2023 total sales: 2,200. (2024 was 1,200).

It’s always been surprising to me that a medium suv and the biggest selling car on the planet never sold at all here really, irrespective of the musk stuff

September1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123492412#Comment_123492412

Interesting observation, I wonder if saloon shaped cars used to be more popular in Ireland than other countries in past. In my opinion possible reasons could be that SUV buyers are more conservative buyers, staying away from EV and touch screens and M3 being very capable so extra price is not justifiable.

sk8board

63% of all Y’s 23-25 were registered in Dublin, and that rises to 90% if you include the 3 Dublin commuter counties of Meath Kildare & Wicklow, and also include Cork.

prawnsambo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123492852#Comment_123492852

Is that not just reflective of the fact that these counties are in the upper levels of EV adoption?

sk8board

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123492880#Comment_123492880

for sure, but I’d call it upper levels of EV suitability.

As I said, I live in commuter-land, probably 20km from the Liffey, and I’d say every 4th house has some sort of BEV. It’s the most suitable place in the country to own an EV.

When I travel to Granny’s house 160km away, I can hardly remember ever seeing one single EV that was owned locally.

buying e.g. a Toyota or a VW is a country-wide thing, but I get the impression that buying a Tesla is seen as more of ‘a Dublin thing’ (which is bourne out in the numbers)