Is Elon Musk hurting Tesla? (Mod Note Post #1)

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123520064#Comment_123520064

Could just be a show being put on as well. Tesla shares down, musk swoops in for majority ownership and then goes back to being buddies with the blonde orange man

pah

Doesn't feel like that at all

Detritus70

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123519776#Comment_123519776

I fully get the binary thinking thing, but that is not everyone.
There are still traditional shareholders who think only in numbers. If you told them that Trump wants to open extermination camps for illegals, they would look into investing in Zyklon B and compiling reports about the growth potential of that market.
Those people have zero morals. They're not evil, they just don't care about anything but a healthy dividend.

OnDeBanks

Directors and executive officers can pledge stock (not including warrants, options, restricted stock units, or other rights to purchase stock) as loan or investment collateral. Everyone other than the CEO is limited to borrowing no more than 15% of the total value of the pledged stock.

Musk, by name, has a more complex limitation: the lesser of $3.5 billion or 25% of the total value of the pledged stock.

On page 23 is the list of beneficial owner names with at least 5% of shares, as well as named executive officers and directors, who may have less than 1%. As of December 31, 2024, Musk owned 714,754,706 shares, or 20.3% of all shares. That includes 410,794,076 shares in the Elon Musk Revocable Trust dated July 22, 2003, and 303,960,630 issuable on exercise of options within 60 days after December 31, 2024. As of then, all of the shares that Musk owned outright were in that revocable trust. They include 235,998,721 shares pledged against his personal loans.

The opening value Tesla shares on Tuesday, May 27, 2025, was $347.35. The value of the shares pledged is $81.97 billion. Round it to $82 billion. A quarter of that amount is $20.5 billion. According to the board’s rule, Musk can have borrowed no more than $3.5 billion against all that stock, or 4.3% of the shares’ total value.

Furthermore, the shares he’s pledged are 6.7% of all Tesla shares. If the board approved the borrowing because the loaned amount was far lower than the value of the shares, the question of potential impact on the valuation of the company’s market cap remains. Not just for Tesla, but any company whose executives could pledge significant amounts of stock for low valuations.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/eriksherman/2025/06/05/does-elon-musks-borrowing-show-a-super-low-tesla-stock-valuation/

eightieschewbaccy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123520148#Comment_123520148

Can't see that being the case. This just seems like a guy with a ketamine problem imploding. Also the specific jabs he took at Trump feel like something that just causes bad blood. Also Bannon isn't the kind of person who would be likely to join such antics and he appears to have Trump's ear. Musk ended up damaging for Trump and that's what caused it.

magicbastarder

s'ok, they're going to kiss and make up.

https://www.irishtimes.com/world/us/2025/06/06/elon-musk-and-donald-trump-to-speak-on-friday-following-public-feud/

kanuseeme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123520262#Comment_123520262

Can't pledge what you don't have, The chair woman of Tesla sold shares last month, not illegal to do so, when you state your intention to sell, but its strange that she announced it the day musk announced that he was backing the orange one.

https://nypost.com/2025/05/15/business/telsa-chair-sold-stock-worth-230-million-as-profits-plunged/

sk8board

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123520355#Comment_123520355

it’s mutually assured destruction otherwise, so a reluctant peace deal is the obvious option.

Re Bannon and co, Trump is simply taking the gloves off and sending all the winged monkeys after musk.

Musk meanwhile doesn’t have winged monkeys, but seems to know about a lot of skeletons. Money buys a lot of information.

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123520355#Comment_123520355

Oh no they're not

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2025/jun/06/elon-musk-signals-he-may-back-down-in-public-row-with-donald-trump?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

yagan

Anyone could plant rumours about a kiss and make up to pump the stock before selling out.

prawnsambo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123524828#Comment_123524828

They'd probably have to be reasonably closely placed for it to be believable though.

sk8board

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123524828#Comment_123524828

it’s not really possible to pump a trillion dollar business, literally Musk himself is the only person who can gap the stock upwards like that, and the daily volumes would tell you the story.

Stock movements on low volume would be retial.

e.g the 14% drop on Thursday was on huge volumes, which means institutional shareholders were also selling (bad news for Tesla), whereas the 4% move upwards on Friday was in low volume, which means it’s mostly retail guys thinking they’re legends buying the dip.

yagan

Irish Tesla sales in first quarter roughly the same as first quarter last year, however

while Tesla made up 11.4% of the total number of new EVs licenced for the first time in January to May 2024, its market share has fallen to 9.1% in the same period in 2025.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-41651003.html

sk8board

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123551278#Comment_123551278

beepbeep puts them at 8% marketshare and 26% drop.

The price change for BYD and MG really telling too - here’s the top EV manufacturers:

MojoMaker

MG and Tesla with new models backing up to 252 perhaps? Not sure if BYD have anything new around now though?

grennscreener

Make of this what you will. I got a call from tesla sales (test drove a Y last year when we popped in to show my son the cyber truck), they were clearly doing cold calls wondering if I still interested in buying a tesla and that they were willing to throw in a free wall charger. When I told them I wouldn't be interested because I don't want to put money in musk's pockets the sales guy said:

"Yeah you're not the first person to have told me that. While we're talking, if Elon stepped aside from Tesla would you change your mind on purchasing?"

If the sales guys are asking that you'd imagine he's going to be doing some sort of symbolic side step away from the chair.

yagan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123556247#Comment_123556247

That salesman could also be weighing up their own career options if Elon does depart from the brand but sales remain subdued. Only time could tell.

joe1303l

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123553743#Comment_123553743

Peugeot numbers way up, 7 seater e-5008 ??

grennscreener

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123556345#Comment_123556345

on a recorded sales call? I doubt that was them asking something that wasn't scripted.

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123557688#Comment_123557688

This isn't America, you can't fire a sales rep for not being a company zealot

Even in the US the customer support staff were admitting the company was going to shut, albeit after some prodding

I'm not sure some sales exec is realistically planning a coup. The board and Elon have made it clear that they don't care about anything the customers want or say

As long as the company stays as a meme stock they'll keep going as they are. Literally the only thing that checked Elon (a bit) was the share price collapsing after him and Trump had their public spat

grennscreener

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123557988#Comment_123557988

"This isn't America, you can't fire a sales rep for not being a company zealot"
Never said anything of the sort. What I said was I didn't think the sales guy was asking me anything that wasn't in the sales script. Therefore the question was coming from higher up. My contention was that tesla must be looking at some sort of a symbolic action to not so much push musk out, but to the background.

Telsa stocks definitely have more in common with a crypto than an actual company that's for sure. I don't think Musk can afford to leave Tesla and I'm not sure Tesla could survive without his brand either.

reaction238

It's apparent now that Musk's political views are actually very different to Trumps. It's something that was always apparent if you bothered to look into it even a little bit.

The guy is an socially awkward weirdo. But an engineering genius. History will remember Musk in 100 years time and not give a hoot about Trump or any other recent president.

The salute was dumb as f. But again, if you bother to look into it we've seen Hillary Clinton, Obama and Macron do the same thing. It never made the news. We also recently saw a democrat senator do it, some tried to get it into the news but it was very swiftly brushed aside.

It was stupid, I don't condone it. Do I think it makes him a Naz*? As far as I'm aware, he has never murdered anyone let alone on a massive scale against a specific demographic.

The hstred is actually something I can relate to. I have a group of former friends who absolutely hate my guts for things I didn't actually do. Someone started the accusations, they all joined in the bitching, it got really out of hand and now it is written in the history books as fact.

Basically, I love the car. I'm buying the car and I can't wait for collection day.

grennscreener

what has musk engineered? not fishing I genuinely don't know what if anything he actually created.

reaction238

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123560315#Comment_123560315

He's hands on and heavily involved in everything his companies do. I did not say he invented Tesla cars, which I suspect is what you are "not fishing" at.

It's quite a bizzare question about someone who is well on the way to sending rockets to Mars. Does he single handedly engineer everything? Of course not.

What exactly is the point?

grennscreener

The point is I've heard how brilliant an engineer he is supposed to be. However when asked for details, proof or evidence that he is responsible for the technological advancements in any of his companies the stock response seems to be a bunch of wishy washy hand waving. I ask again - what has he engineered of note? If he had there would be patents surely? Its a very easy thing to prove if it holds water.

As a counter point, the one thing I know of that he was in charge of engineering was the micro submersible tube to rescue the Thai kids which turned out to be utterly useless.
He might be a talented CEO and manager, there's certainly more evidence of that, but the concept of his engineering brilliance is alot harder to pin down it seems.

Buy and drive what you want - I really don't care. But do try not to worship a man who has consistently shown himself to be a liar and who has an ego the size of an entire planet.

reaction238

II'Ve just given you an example, rockets to Mars. If you want examples of engineering marvels that have been completed" automated rockets and deliveries to and from the space station, reusable rockets (hands down the greatest innovation), self driving cars.

It's a very bizarre question. What proof do you want? Patents or something?

I'm not worshipping the man. I'm inspired by and admire a man who works in my own field of expertise and I'm excited by how he is advancing the human race towards a multi-planetary species.

You can go ahead and not buy whatever car you don't want to. Just try not to be a hypocrite and buy a Chinese car. And don't tell other people what they can and can't do especially when you base it on a campaign of hatred that is born from utter ignorance.

grennscreener

yep completely reasonable standard musk defense. Good luck with the multi planetary journeys yee won't be missed.

reaction238

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123560685#Comment_123560685

Tell me you have lost an argument without telling me you lost the argument.

fits

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123560698#Comment_123560698

I don’t think they lost the argument.

reaction238

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123560802#Comment_123560802

When you reduce the argument to insults, you've automatically lost.