Boards DCM22 Graduates Thread - A Deeper Understanding

Pawwed Rig

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120456007#Comment_120456007

A 75 min tempo run is part of the training plan so I was going to do that on Monday. The plan I am doing is the one in the OP of this thread so trying to make sure I touch on all the runs.

I get your point though. I took a day off yesterday and will have another one off tomorrow and see how I feel on Monday morning 👍🏾

Cheers D

Walkedit

Hey I'm new although this is my second time around, I'm 62yo. I really enjoyed these threads from when I was here before, so much encouragement and accountability, with a wealth of knowledge available. I'm hoping to get a bit of advice and find a new tribe for the next part of my running story.

What follows is very long so feel free to ignore it.

Some background. I Was a quite heavy bloke 18st at 5:9 and lost weight to 13.5st with WW in 2010 -was looking at 50's coming down the tracks fast. I walked DCM about 8 hrs in 2010 & 2011 (included last 4x hours in a downpour!) and ran it in 2012 (4:51) & 2017 (5:10) and a virtual in 2020 (5:06). A big parkrun fan ever since Malahide early days. I don't race much. I had some injuries especially calf strains that bothered me. I was training on/off for a bit and moved barefoot shoes about 6x years ago and now that's all I wear 24/7, I don't have great form or cadence but have been injury free since I switched. I had a horror ankle break in 2018 6x weeks out from Boston, needed a plate & screws. I have had a pretty full recovery over 18 months, I credit doing HBOT a lot for this. Full disclosure I did not BQ but had picked up a sponsor place in a lottery, given the weather that transpired I guess I dodged a bullet but I was devo.

I'm a run streaker on day #1199 today and that was a complete blessing during Covid, most of my running is super easy, including running to work a few days a week more recently after 2 years of WFH. So I have some running base and have averaged 6km daily, been doing 45k per week but stretching to 60k most recently.

I have 2xs sets of PB's from before/after the ankle break. Pre 5/10/21/42 23:11/52:27/2:09:58/4:51:31 Post (all in 2020) 5/10/21/42 26:21/56:26/2:21:04/5:06:35. I did the 5 Alive series this year with BHAA DCC 4 mile in 36:51 and the Raheny 5 mile in 48:09. Tom Brennan 5k 29:59 so that's my form now.

I'm wanting to get back on the horse properly and will be toeing the line at DCM '23.

My big goal in the next 18 months is to BQ which for 60-64 is 3:50:00 and to start down that path by beating my 2012 time in 2023. I'm also really keen to stay injury free and keep running for life, so I see myself playing long game.

My plans so far are:

• Work on making the 60k pw the regular between now and end May
• Losing a few lbs, I was 14:7 post Xmas, now at 13:1 with a target of 12:7 (which is how I was for my Pre PB's so I know it plays a part, I'm a low carber and eat I/F usually OMAD, I ran DCM 2017 fasted which worked surprisingly well but it was slow!!)
• Joining a training group in the local running club which is clonliffe
• Looking at starting Intermediate training plan at start of June
• Probably look at HM in Aug/Sept

Lazare

Welcome aboard Walkedit, although your name should be Runedit given that awesome streak.

Fair play, that's really amazing, especially as you say through Covid.

You've had a tough road over the last few years, I can only imagine how gutted you were missing out on Boston so cruelly like that.

You have an amazing attitude though, that positivity is pure gold. It's what will get you that BQ goal.

I'm also chasing a BQ this year, Amsterdam for me.

Let's do it.

We'll be meeting up in Boston for post race celebrations.

You mention your next race focus may be a half in Aug/Sep. Would you consider targeting something sooner, shorter, 5k 10k maybe?

Also, have a look at the plans linked in the OP. They're really fantastic, I can personally vouch.

Walkedit

@Lazare for the welcome and kind words. The streak is amazing even to me but it's compounding doing it's work - don't break the streak today!

I was quite delighted in 2010 that I had "walked" it as it got the monkey I was carrying around off my back before turning 50 - baby steps.

Yep an earlier maybe 5/10k race, that makes sense. I'm on hols thru May 12th so any serious race specific training starts then. And I'll be running thru the hols obviously so maybe start playing with it on tour. I can easily target a parkrun for a big push, I've done a few recently but just trotted around.

I meant the OP intermediate plans to start with, so maybe I pick the 10k one 1st.

On the weight front (OK any front) I love a few stats and normally weight daily although I didnt track it for months fron July to March - the results were nor good! Anyway the attached show my progress over the last few years ups & downs, despite a fairly decent diet and an active run streak. But from 1/1/23 to today a small milestone, I've dropped exactly 10% of my body weight 20.4 lbs. More evidence of the results when you get after it every day. It's classic marathon stuff, have a plan, use the plan, trust the process.

Screenshot_20230415-083749.jpg

Day #1200 here I come

Walkedit

As a baseline I decided to run a 5k timetrial today, did a 3k easy warmup with few strides, then 5k in 25:38 (a 40 sec PB) the pacing was consistent 5:04/07/02/12/09 but was tailing off a bit.

I'm thinking that makes a sub 25 5k a good near term target. thoughts?

Lazare

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120480520#Comment_120480520

Wow! Congrats. Of course sub 25 is short term doable. Go for it.

Remember, a race environment is very different to a solo TT, in a positive sense. No reason why you won't run low 24s after a bit of specific training.

Well done.

Walkedit

I'm literally researching what to do intervals, hill repeats tempo runs etc and thinking about the paces based on the timetrial. I did a small bit before. I had ankle break in 2018 and have pretty much run all easy since then as I've been afraid to push on it, I think the TT is probably the 1st "quality" workout post break. it's time to visit the cave.

so I'm thinking I should get started from this week and during my hols.

how does this sound?

1x intervals session maybe 400/800m repeats @ target 5k pace say 4:50

- is that pace ok? how many repeats/rest

- do I need to do 1k repeats or can that wait?

1x tempo run @ 5:30

Walkedit

So for today's easy miles I thought I'd conciously keep the pace a bit faster say about 6:30 after warning up and that would still be lo HR but It was off the charts!

fot the TT avg pace 5:07 avg HR 143

today avg pace 8:26 avg HR 156

I could see it passing 165 and started walking to bring it down. Maybe I'm getting something but that was unsettling, overnight resting HR still showing 39 which is typical for me.

Think I'll just watch that a few days before I try the speedwork!

Walkedit

Apologies for so many posts, maybe I need a training log. Thinking of a good title!

(PS: well I couldn't really think of a great title so I went ahead anyway#, more ramblings here https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058292711/im-either-getting-better-or-worse-but-what-if-i-am-just-f-king-nuts/p1?new=1)

In other news, really excited to see how Boston unfolds today with Kipchoge

winstonia

Massive 23 minutes pb in Manchester yesterday. Usual happened at mile 23 and dropped a few mins off. I was on for about 3.33 but got moving again for 3:37. That's 3 done now and no urge to do another.

lulublue22

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120488464#Comment_120488464

Well done that’s a fantastic pb you must be buzzing 😁

Lazare

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120488464#Comment_120488464

Get in there!!!

That's awesome. Huge congrats, a massive PB indeed 💪

Lazare

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120486277#Comment_120486277

I think the first thing to do is to imput your 5k time into this calculator https://runfastcoach.com/calc2/index.php

That will guide you on the correct pace ranges for various different workouts.

Then I couldn't recommend highly enough the 5k Grads plan https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1LOkLQ_a9NHWe97yaRkfF6ArFmCHmtf9y1tU0LR7uMr8/edit#gid=2059597888

4:50 is about your Vo2max pace at the moment. While it's obv an important element of 5k training, as you'll see from the plan it's only a small part of the overall. So if you don't fancy the plan itself, do mix it up.

Walkedit

@Lazare that looks good. Given DCM is the target, will it work to say do the 5k plan May/Jun/Jul and a marathon plan Aug/Sept/Oct ?

Lazare

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120489763#Comment_120489763

I think maybe a late June, early to mid July 5k, giving yourself a couple of weeks of easy running between blocks.

A 12 week DCM block is fine, did that myself last year, but I like the idea of a couple of down weeks before beginning it.

You won't have time for that entire 5k plan, but that's fine, just work back. You're in a position to do that given you're a long term streaker.

Given you're (I'm assuming) intending to continue with the streak please do keep days that sandwich sessions absolutely gentle. Maybe no more than 20 mins v easy for the days after.

Walkedit

yea going with that. Will be planning on continuing the streak for the foreseable. Sub 25 here I come!

winstonia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120489251#Comment_120489251

What speed do you do your hill reps on for this plan using that pace calculator. Also do I add my target 5k pace if say for example I'm trying to go under 20mins or current one.

Lazare

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120498289#Comment_120498289

For the 1 min hills you're thinking more about form than pace, back straight driving your quads, working glutes. The pace I guess should be in and around your 3k effort, Vo2max range.

As long as you're entering a relatively recent race time into the calculator your Aerobic Power (AP) should be in and around your 5k pace. There are plenty of AP workouts.

There are no tune up races in there but I would do one or two, parkrun obv ideal. That's where I would test out my goal pace.

winstonia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120502370#Comment_120502370

I entered my marathon time and it seems ok. I entered my 5k pb from a few months back and it seems fast. Ap is 6:47-55. 7:06-14 for marathon pb. Shortest I've raced ever has been 10 miles

Lazare

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120502527#Comment_120502527

I'd suggest doing a fast parkrun, maybe next week, unless you're ready for such tomorrow.

That will certainly give you more accurate and specific numbers.

Crack on with the plan with the info you have though.

Lazare

@Pawwed Rig How's the week going for you?

All set for Sunday?

Hopefully no taper madness 😊

Pawwed Rig

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120524529#Comment_120524529

Just a bit of anxiety at this stage.

I did a couple of runs this week but very light stuff with a bit of cycling thrown in. I will do another short 30 min run tomorrow and on Sat will just jog down to parkrun (2.5k) to volunteer.

Gonna drive up on Sunday morning so it will be an early start. Wife will be exiled to spare room on Saturday night 🤣Once I start running I will be fine but I'll have nerves until then. Plan is to go with the 4 hr pacers for the whole thing.

I feel good and have hit all the runs on the training plan so prep has been perfect.

I will report back on Monday after I sober up a bit 👍🏾

Laineyfrecks

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120527155#Comment_120527155

Very best of luck to you, some nerves are good, they show you care! You have done the hard work now go run your victory lap & enjoy the beers after😁

Lazare

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120527155#Comment_120527155

Fantastic stuff PR. You'll smash it, you're so well prepared.

Believe believe believe, and don't let any doubts enter.

Can't wait to hear how you get on.

Murph_D

I'd probably be banishing myself to the spare room myself. So much easier, and so much better in so many ways. Good luck!

Lazare

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120534210#Comment_120534210

Depends on where the best mattress is. 😄

On that actually, and this may seem a little mad but put fresh bedsheets and a fresh duvet cover on the bed tomorrow. I did that by accident the night before DCM and while I was floating off to sleep in them I was wondering why I didn't think of it.

Pawwed Rig

TLDR I clocked 3:58:26 hitting my target for the run am delighted with that

Longer version The nature of the start line is that the Avenue in Stormont is a down hill and you can see the sea of athletes stretching out in front of you which is an impressive sight. The morning was overcast and muggy. It was raining on our drive up in the morning but the rain held off for the most part for the race. At 9 am I could see at the bottom of the hill the elite guys starting but it was nearly 5 mins later when I reached that point.

My plan start after the 4 hour pacers and reel them in over the first hour and then stick with them. The pacers were just interspersed throughout the crowd as there were no waves as such. I reckon they started about 90 seconds before me.

The plan didn't really work though as I had already caught them at the 3km mark. it was very congested around the pacers so I moved to a position 20m ahead of them and settled into the race. I kind of zoned out for 3 or 4 kms until I noticed more pacers up ahead that I seemed to be gaining on. When I looked over my shoulder I was about 300m ahead of the 4hr guys but couldn't make out the time on the banners anymore. At that point I noticed that the pacers ahead of me had 4:15 on their banners. I then started second guessing myself that it must have been the 4:30 pacers that I started with rather than the 4 hour so I pushed on a bit. I met a friend from my area at the 10k mark and mentioned it to him and he told me that the 4:15 pacers had started before the 4 hour guys for some reason. At this point the 4 hour pacers were too far behind for me to wait for them so I ran with my friend for a while. I was slightly concerned we were going a little too fast but felt comfortable so just kept pace with each other. At some point before the halfway mark I had lost him again.

Halfway point 1:55:56 so well within target.

At the 25k mark my left quadricep started hurting (which had never happened before) however I managed to keep my pace going. The sun was shining at this stage and I was losing lots of liquid. I was taking on water at every water stop but didn't feel like I was getting enough. I had taken my gels every 10km and had taken my 2 salt sachets at this point also and my wife had handed me a couple of bananas at different points around the course. By the 30km mark I was feeling tired but the 20-30k points were the uphill part of the course so I was hoping for some downhills to conserve energy which did come but didn't actually help much. I had still completed 33km at the 3 hour mark so was looking like a 3:50 or so finish time at that point if I could keep going.

At 35km I lost the will to live. My right quadricep was now also very sore. Given there was 5 miles to go at this point I knew I would finish the race and was fairly confident of getting under the 4 hr mark but my km times went off a cliff. I was literally dragging myself to the finish now. That 7-8km is probably the toughest thing I have ever done. Coming up to Ormeau Park in the last mile the 4hr pacers motored past me. I tried to stay with them but the legs weren't able and at that point I knew I would get in under 4 hours given that I had let them start before me. The finish line was the most welcome thing I have seen.

Conclusion

I enjoyed 80% of the run but the last 20% was incredibly tough.

What I would do differently?

1. Stay closer to the pacers next time
2. Take 2 bottles in the water stops if I need them
3. Be more aware of my pace early on (see 1 above)

Anyway delighted with myself for doing it. I achieved what I set out to do even if I made it a lot harder on myself than it needed to be. Some good lessons learnt without a huge downside.

Befast time.jpg

Lazare

👏👏👏👏👏

Superb P, you smashed it.

Was waiting anxiously for you to post, so happy to read you nailed it.

That last 20% was tough but that's where you earned it. Be proud.

masterK

Congrats PR, great achievement

MisterJinx

My monthly update! Well the injury bus arrived and it's taken a little while to get off it...

After a track session in early April i had a pain on the insides of both my knees. After running on them for a few days I then took a few days off, one healed the other didn't. Went back again and after 3 days running I was limping so took another 4 days off, same result, had to call a halt for another few days while I was waiting to get to see the physio. While I was doing this on and off my calves which were giving me jip started to really act up and the right one in particular was basically locked below at the lowest areas of it leading into the achillies. So I generally felt battered and bruised!

I've been through 3 sessions at this stage and the knee is in a much better place, stilling wearing a jumpers brace and I'll be weened off of it in a few weeks. Right calf is still very tight and that's the one that needs to be managed. I can run thankfully however I'm perscribed off all speed work for the next 3 weeks (and i expect a little longer). So the Runner 5K is out for me (a kids activity also got in the way so MrsJinx will be doing it by herself) and we will see about the Bru Na Boinne 5K in June, although my expectations have to be lowered considerably.

So the bright side is I can still do base work and while the mileage has been lower than I wanted I've still been able to keep moving so I'll be building back up and hopfully in a few weeks time I'll be back to where i was at from an endurance perspective! This did all time in with what was always going to be a busy time for me at home so it's not the end of the world, I would have expected to struggle with the time I had available, onwards and upwards!