Boards DCM22 Graduates Thread - A Deeper Understanding

Lazare

So how did the folks running Cork get on?

Testing conditions yesterday, hope you guys did well.

masterK

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120678624#Comment_120678624

It was pretty testing all right, I don't think I've ever done a 10k in that sort of weather never mind a marathon. There wasn't a cloud in the sky or any sort of wind

Personally it was a little disappointing, I'd hoped for 3:45-4hrs. It was all going pretty well for me up to 31k when I felt cramp in my right calf. I had to stop and stretch it out a bit, got going again for another few km but the both calves locked, I never recovered so spent the rest of the race walking/ running between bouts of cramp. Came home in 4:02, was pretty gutted. The 4hr pacer passed me at the 25 mile marker, I managed to catch back up to them but then the calves locked up so that was that.

Overall I thought it was a really good race, a nice route and a lot great support. The finish the whole way up Patrick St was really good.

A group of us travelled down for the weekend so the post race beers in the sun were lovely. Had a great weekend overall.

As an aside I'd appreciate any advice on avoiding cramp, that's 2 marathons now and both times cramping in the calves ruined it. This time I was drinking 5-6 pints of water each day for the week before, also took electrolytes each day and had 3 salt tablets during the race as well as plenty of fluids and a gel every 7km so I honestly don't know what else I could have done. Also had been doing plenty of stretching, even had a sports massage a week ago. Not sure I could handle putting all the effort in for another training block for it to be ruined in this way again.

Lazare

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120680088#Comment_120680088

Gutted for you that you had that experience, I can really sense the frustration.

A couple of things though. You did everything right in your block, and your lead in and taper.

The conditions were brutal. Your body was simply working much harder because of it.

If we do things by the book we should maybe adjust our goal on a morning like that, but it's real tough to do so. I know I probably wouldn't. Actually, no probably, I simply wouldn't, even though I should.

Try not let what happened dishearten you and turn you off going again.

You've a sample size of 2 which is nothing.

I've cramped in two of my three marathons, and both times were due to not managing the effort well enough.

Ecoli mentioned recently that it can take someone ten marathons to truly get a handle on it.

Bottom line is, you prepped well, go prep well again and smash the next one.

masterK

Some good points @Lazare, in hindsight maybe I could have adjusted my goal a little but as you say easier said than done. I'm not totally disappointed, it was still a 17 minute improvement on my Dublin time

Lazare

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120680454#Comment_120680454

Oh man, I didn't cop that!

A 17 min improvement on a day like that is phenomenal growth. It's disappointing missing out on a round number target, coming so close to it, but there's so so much you can take away from that performance.

I question the madness of a June BH weekend marathon if I'm honest. You start your block on Winter's verge, cold and dark still. You don't really get much warm weather training then bang you've to race 26.2 in the Sahara. Tough stuff.

lulublue22

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120680454#Comment_120680454

Congrats A 17 min pb in those conditions is fantastic. I headed out for an easy jog at 8 am and I felt the heat at that stage - couldn’t imagine running a 10k not a mind a marathon on Sun.

AlmightyCushion

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120680088#Comment_120680088

I did a long, easy run yesterday here in Dublin and I struggled with it at times. A marathon would have fecking killed me. I can see why you are gutted, I would be too but a 4:02 marathon on a day like that is a sub 4:00 on a less intense day. Look at it this way, if you got painfully close to a sub 4 marathon in that heat, next time when you have more training under your belt and more suitable weather, you will probably smash it. I think you can at least partly blame the cramping on the heat as well. You must have been sweating like crazy.

Pawwed Rig

I did an 11k yesterday and was absolutely wrecked during it just a month after running sub 4 in Belfast. I cannot imagine doing a marathon in yesterdays weather.

Repeat exactly what you did yesterday for Dublin in October and see how you go.

I am aiming for 3:45 for Dublin so might see you there 👍🏾

I can't run in this heat atm. Live in Manchester and for example it's 22c at 9am tomorrow. Have a feeling it's going to be like this for months

Dublinlad1989

Hey Everyone,

Bit of an update from myself.

My running had been really strong for the first 3 months of the year and i was targeting the Cork Marathon.

I ended up getting a chest infection in March and because i wanted to make Cork i ended up running more than i should have, this resulted in me being much sicker over March and April due to not letting my body recover. I ended up with a really bad strep throat and chest infection in April so I stopped running for the guts of 3/4 weeks to recover.

Back running now and feeling good, targeting Dublin but have a few races over the summer which i'm working towards a PB which brings me to my races this year.

I completed the Naas 10 mile at the start of March, my PB for 10 mile was 1:24. Went out really strong and felt really good. Ended up hitting 1:19 so a PB of 5 mins. Also my 10 mile time from 2022 was 1:30 so 11 mins better year on year.

I did the Athletics Ireland 5 Mile race yesterday and was hoping for a PB but i also completed Hell and Back on Saturday so my main goal was to just go out and enjoy the run. Everything went really good and my legs felt good and finished the race in 39:01 which gave me a PB of 6 seconds. My time for 5 mile from 2022 was 46 mins so 7 mins better year on year. All things considered i'm delighted with that and my next focus is on the Fingal 10k on the 16th July. I'm aiming for about 46/47 mins which i know is more than achievable once my training stays consistent.

Hope all the training is going well!

Lazare

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120704275#Comment_120704275

Great to see you back in the thread, and sorry to hear of how rough you had it in March/April.

Still notching up PBs though 👊

Many more to come.

MisterJinx

Forgive me father it has been 5 weeks since my last confession 😂

I think the last time I updated I said I was feeling good, had built back up and was taking a down week, which were all true. However, come week 2 after the build up to 65k per week I was feeling a bit tired. there has been loads on at home since a confirmation at the end of April and all the school activities, a kids birthday party, work being a bit nuts and all that goes with life. I actually really didn't feel like ramping right back up again and building. So I kept it at what I felt like doing, conscious that I was going into only my second marathon block, maybe I should take it easy on myself and go with the build up again.

So I did, I kept ticking along but didn't put myself under too much pressure and ran what I wanted to, when I wanted to. So I tripped along at somewhere between 45K and 50K for each of the weeks of June - I'll come back this this point later..

Also I then had a 5K on the 30th, and again, really conscious of what happened last time I added speed and distance into my training I kept the volume comfortable and added a little speed work in. A set of 100's 200' 400's, a bit of steady running which was to keep the HR under 150 and worked out at roughly last years marathon pace, a set of 5x1k which gave me a bit of confidence that there was maybe the potential to do something good in the 5k and then a set of 12 x 200's which I like to use to recruit the muscles that couldn't be arsed engaging most of the time when I'm running!

Saint Coca's 5K Race report

I wasn't sure what would happen here, I wanted it to go well as I wanted a confidence booster for starting the marathon block. Earlier in the year I said I'd target going sub 19 this year - 4 trips to the physio scratched that off the list for me. I did however say that I'd target a sub 20 for this.. which was ambitious...

Headed over and joined @skyblue46 and S on their warm up and saw @Murph_D and @Laineyfrecks on their warm ups too. I'm not sure what I was feeling here, I very much tried to keep it out of my mind, so not nervous but certainly not gung-ho. We lined up and I hung back a bit, I knew Lainey was going for a sub 20 and was being paced by @scotindublin but I wasn't sure I could join that particular bus, confidence wasn't there for it I think. I would have been happy with a 20:XX

It was a really congested start, loads of runners very tightly packed, we were off and although it was busy I didn't find it too bad in that everyone around me was running at a fair auld pace so there wasn't much overtaking or weaving needed. I was keeping an eye on the watch for the first km, just making sure I wasn't going too fast, hitting around the 4m/km mark and after 1 k I did a mental check, i was feeling ok, breathing was fine and it didn't feel too hard, good sign. Again most of the runners around me were doing a very similar pace, a very strong field I must say, and I just kept it going.

I think somewhere between 1 and 2 k's I saw Lainey and scotindublin up ahead. Knowing what they were up to I tried to keep them in sight. Now for the fuzzy part, I basically hopped onto the very last seat of the bus and for almost the rest of the race I only focused on the shoes in front of me. Sometimes they were close, sometimes father away, but that was all I could see. I knew were were on some country roads, noticed some undulations, at 2.7k I looked at the watch, 3.58 average, this was good and I wasn't struggling, just tried to keep it up.... My mantra was drop the shoulders, breath steady and relax. I kept telling myself this over and over

3.7K is a thing for me, every 5K I hit that distance and want to stop, everything hurts and I want to give up, I didn't this time, I kept relaxed. 4.2K was another story, it hit me like a brick and hurt, but it was only 800 to go, I could do this, I passed S here with a little thumbs up on my part, it was nothing like what I felt!!. Someone was shouting sprint now, I'm short sighted, I couldn't see the gantry so I'd no idea why, suddenly it appeared and I put in a burst, across the line, 19.54, I was really very pleased, only my second every sub 20.

There was a bit of a huddle afterwards and mostly happy faces. I thanked scotindublin, although he had no idea who I was or that he was pacing me as well and a big congrats to Lainey who also went sub 20 and a very well deserved result for her. @AuldManKing joined us and was talking about the housing estate, I was totally perplexed, I had absolutely no memory of running through a housing estate 🤯

The 5K is a bit of a beast, I mentally struggle with it. My interval times suggest sub 20 shouldn't be an issue for me at all, as do a couple of my longer distance pb's but for some reason going sub 20 is a real challenge mentally, perhaps with my second sub 20 under my belt it won't seem like such a huge hill to get over....

Back to the point I made about the base running I was doing. I can't remember which youtube video I was watching, could even have been an amalgamation of a few however there was chat about building up your base, not just in a block but over time and how it can take years to get your fundamental base up. I was looking back at my log from last year and around June my base level was around 30 to 35 k per week before going into the marathon plan. June this year, it was 45k, I think this shows that the base is building and what I can handle week on week is increasing. When I find the video I'll throw it up here as I'd be interested in other people opinions.

Lazare

Fantastic work P, it's a sign of a well ran 5k when you can't remember any of it 😊

You're so right about sub 20 being a mental challenge. It's an arbitrary number/target but for some reason it's really difficult to conquer, even when you know you're capable of it. You're gonna find them easier to crack from now on. Awesome stuff.

Laineyfrecks

Absolutely delighted for you🤗 it was a brilliant run from you, happy to be able to celebrate it with you afterwards 😊

scotindublin

Class running and glad to have helped out but you done all the hard graft. Amazing result.

Pawwed Rig

Anyone doing the 10k this weekend? It has been over a month since I properly raced so going to go for a pb before marathon training proper starts. I never do 10ks so a pb shouldn't be overly difficult

MisterJinx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120839629#Comment_120839629

Yes I'm doing it too, not sure about a PB but I'll give it a rattle in any case. And just like you into the block proper then.

Mileage has been a little low however with the 5k race a couple of weeks ago and now this 10k I though it was best not to push both at once. Did get 19k in over the weekend, it was a bit of a struggle with the heat, I need to get heat fit!

Pawwed Rig

My current 10k pb is a training run and is over 12 mins slower than my best 5 mile this year so even at a moderate pace I should be beating it. I am not sure I have ever done a 10k race tbh. I usually miss them in the race series due to hols. The only one I can recall doing is the Port Tunnel 10K in 2006 😅

My time on that one is lost in antiquity

Lazare

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120840543#Comment_120840543

Well, how did it go?

Dublinlad1989

Fingal 10k Race update.

Last years time for this race was 1 hour 5 mins. I had only started training for the marathon and didn't prepare or train for this race at all and then with the heat on the day it was just awful.

This year I was determined to go out and smash it, training has been going really good and i knew i could comfortably get a PB. My Previous PB was 52:39 mins from 2019.

They slightly changed the route from last year, about the 8km mark you run into the park beside the castle and this is the only party i didn't like, the paths were quite small and people bunched up made it very hard to pass people. Other than that i really enjoyed the route, it was quite flat across the board. No really big hills or big down hills.

Made a plan with my coach and executed the plan perfectly, hold back slightly in the first half and then put the foot down for the second half.

Finished the race in 47 mins 11 secs average pace of 4:43 per km which is a 5 min PB and also nearly 18 mins better than the same race this time last year.

3 PB's this year so far for 5 mile, 10 mile and now 10km, PB's incoming for 5k half marathon and marathon!

masterK

I did the 10k too, overall it is was a pretty decent race and was very well organised. The weather was spot on.

I'd a 42:50 PB from Maynooth a few months ago that I was hoping to crack, I hadn't been doing a huge amount since the Cork marathon so didn't really know where I was at fitness wise. I did the first 5k in 21 minutes flat so was well on for the PB but the wheels came off in the second 5k, I really struggled, the last of couple of km where torture :(.

I still got home in 43:29 which I wasn't too disappointed with considering.

I was very impressed with the goody bag at the end consider it was only 25 quid to enter.

My only minor gripes was the delay at the start and the 45 minute pacer being almost at the very front causing a bit of a bottleneck for the first km.

Pawwed Rig

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120860545#Comment_120860545

Agree with the above re the pacers. They seemed a bit too far forward than they should have been. Also the extra 15 minute wait in the sun at the start sapped a bit of energy.

Otherwise the race went as I expected it to. My preparation was not great as I did a parkrun on Saturday which I intended to take easy however after the first km I realised that I was fifth and on for a highest ever finish position if I pushed so adjusted my pace accordingly coming in 2nd. A glass of wine and a G&T on Saturday night probably weren't the best ideas either nor was the lack of a decent breakfast on Sunday.

My goal was sub 46 which would smash my previous pb (which was not that great due to the limited times I race this distance). I started off with the 45 min pacer with a view to keeping them somewhere in my vicinity for the duration of the race. I was behind them for the first km but pulled ahead of them then. I didn't look back at any point but judging by my splits they would never have been more than 20-30m behind me at any point. At the 6km mark they passed me again. I was feeling the heat at this stage and was not feeling overly energetic (most likely due to my bad preparation) so they pulled a bit ahead of me and I didn't really respond. That said my pace wasn't that much slower than them and I could see them for the rest of the race.

I finished in 45:30 which I am happy with. Give me a cool day in March or October with a better prep routine and I could see myself doing sub 45. Tshirts are decent this year aswell. As usual well organised and ran smoothly (other than the 15min delay). They really are great value events

MisterJinx

I was at it too. The start was a bit difficult to navigate, not sure what way the organisers had planned it but we had to hop the fence in order to get into a place where we would not be held up too much. It was a good bit behind the 45 minute pacers. the route was good with the exception of the section into the park, a coupe of people dashed ahead of me to get into the first narrow corner first and then slowed down! I was then stuck behind a bunch of people and had to make my way around them on the grass. It was nice to get the bit of cover under the trees but there was a definite slow down here in that section. I didn't think I was in pb condition and aimed to get just under my race pb for 10k (I think I only have 1 or possibly 2 10k races under my belt) and in the end I was just 1 second outside of it, 42:40 in the end. I was happy with it though, it wasn't a target race and I had no 10k specific training done so overall I can't complain and it was good to get another race done and no ill effect on the knee or calf so happy days, onwards and upwards :-)

TheRef

I also took part, but had no plan at all going into it as I came back from a 2 week holiday lunchtime Saturday. The plan was to go out and run it easy so I started with a lad I know a little behind the 60 min pacers as that was the time he was going for. My plan was to stick with him about 50m behind the pacers until 2km and then push on, which I did. After quickly making my way past folks I entered a lot of traffic but luckily there was another runner who had similar ideas and found gaps that I followed which involved a lot of squeezing through, quick turns of pace, and running on grass verges avoiding the nettles. Only challenge was when I got to the 55 min pacer, it was on one of the lane ways and the group around them was spread all the way across with no way to squeeze by, so had to ask for some space, which I got. Pushed on and finished chip time of about 51:30 (gun about 54:30). About 4 mins off a recent PB, but the goal was to stretch the legs, not get injured and be ready for marathon training - which hopefully I am.

I agree with others that the delay at the beginning was not ideal. We had no idea why. The weather was great although warmer than I expected. I always like the series as they are always very well run.

Dublinlad1989

Anyone doing the athletics Ireland 10 mile this weekend? I had signed up back in January and didn't realise the Fingal 10km was on a week before. Not going to race it, just going to treat it as my LSR and enjoy the race.

I always enjoy the athletics Ireland races having done them the last few years, think its a nice build up to the FD 10 mile and Dublin half. Have a friend doing it so might just pace him, think he's aiming for around 1 hour 30 ish which is my LSR pace

MisterJinx

In terms of the plan, I just want to check some of the paces in it.

CV is basically 10K pace (for me around 4.10 m/k to 4.15 m/k)

Threshold is around 10 m/k slower? So around 4.20

What about the tempo, tempo seems to be anything up to marathon pace - any guidance there? I was thinking of adding another 10 secs to Threshold

Also just generally on the plan, unlike the Novices plan, there is no PMP pace / effort, it's all above PMP pace or below it, am I reading it correctly? Unless tempo is supposed to be marathon pace?

Lazare

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120876218#Comment_120876218

When I enter my 10k time into the calculator, tempo is hovering around MP.

I would suggest doing those sessions at MP. The plan doesn't specifically say PMP anywhere, but you will be doing a lot of miles at that pace.

Elver

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120680088#Comment_120680088

Hi masterK. I feel your pain. I have similar problems with cramping and have ended up in agony after, and sometimes during, almost every marathon and half marathon I’ve done. This year’s London marathon is the only long race in years that I haven’t been crippled. What I did differently was I started drinking electrolyte drinks daily a week before the race. On the day before I took 2 magnesium tablets and during the race itself I only drank electrolyte drinks - no water. I also took a few salt tablets towards the end. Conditions in London were cool so didn’t have the heat to contend with. But previously I’ve cramped up even when it hasn’t been hot. Can’t say yet that I’ve cracked it but will follow the same strategy for DCM and half. Hope that helps 😊

Pawwed Rig

Tendons were in bits after the Fingal 10km so I took the Mon and Tues off. I did a slow 10k on Wed and an incredibly slow 9 mile on Thurs without making them any worse so it was probably the racing that did me in. I then did a 10k on Sat 2.5k slow 5k tempo and 2.5k slow with no adverse effects.

Still a bit sore so I have done nothing since Sat. Away camping with the kids at the moment so no option to get a run in which is probably for the best. Saturday will be my next run which will be a 10k slow run. Let's see how it goes.

Been dealing with the tendon issue for years so it shouldn't be a show stopper. The break will probably do me the world of good. Will jump into week 2 of the training plan.

masterK

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120891835#Comment_120891835

Some solid advice there, I did do a lot of what you mentioned. The one thing I wasn't doing and have started doing the last few weeks is taking a magnesium supplement. Hopefully this helps.