Boards DCM22 Graduates Thread - A Deeper Understanding

TheRef

I am following Hanson for Dublin and currently at week 5. For whatever reason, I've recently got in the habit of not taking water unless I go over 16km (~90 mins) and gel unless I am going over 20km. I know I should probably by hydrating as I go, but wondering if this is really hampering my progress. Thoughts?

MisterJinx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120894938#Comment_120894938

I think the consensus on boards might be that you are fine for up to 2 hours without water for fuel but everyone is different. I started to bring water a a gel on ~20k runs as I wound up feeling a bit fresher and then when I got home I wasn't eating all around me. It's horses for courses I expect so do what you think works best for you.

Lazare

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120894938#Comment_120894938

Great to hear you're following Hanson's how are you finding it?

Had you the 5x 1k today?

As MisterJinx says, hydration on a run is horses for courses. If you're feeling thirst on those medium length runs then maybe carry a soft flask, if not I wouldn't worry.

I've the same approach as you btw, don't carry water at all.

On really long runs I bring a fiver in case I need to buy a bottle.

chabsey

Any recommendations as to where to buy Maurten gels? I have read a lot of recommendations for them and am keen to try them.

py

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120896293#Comment_120896293

The Rub Hub in Dublin city centre have them. You can purchase them from them online too.

TheRef

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120896060#Comment_120896060

Well.... I came back from holidays week ago and jumped into week 3 after miscalculating the week I should have started on (should have started on week 4). So, decided to jump from week 3 last week to week 5 this, and just reduce the speed sessions to 5x950s as a kind of bridge to next week.

Overall, I really like the structure. Apart from the speed sessions, the paces are all generally comfortable. I've never found speedwork comfortable. I am following the advanced plan as it is laid out in the book with the mileage as prescribed. It's a lot of running and with only 1 rest day a week its... different.

After last weeks 8*600s I was so fatigued and it was hard going into Thursdays tempo session, but feeling a lot better this week. I'm sure that will change.

marathon2022

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120896293#Comment_120896293

You can get a starter pack online, gels, powder and a solid fuel. The gels are good and seem to suit most people. For me the drink mix is the best, if your time is short pre long run the 320 mix for breakfast is perfect to get you through.

https://www.maurten.com/products/starter-kit

MisterJinx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120896060#Comment_120896060

I bought the Hanson book and am going to try and read it on holidays and see what I think of it. I'm on the grads plan this year but next for the next rattle I might go there.

masterK

I've decided against doing DCM this year but am following Hanson's half marathon plan (well sort of!) aiming for the DCM half in September. I actually really enjoy the intervals. Did 12x400 this morning and will do the tempo run on Friday. Even after a few weeks I notice I'm getting sharper with the intervals.

On the water I rarely bother for anything under 20k, I have some of the soft flasks that fit in my pocket if it's a really warm day but that's not something we need to worry about at the moment.

Pawwed Rig

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120899783#Comment_120899783

The heat is killing me at the moment. I like it cold though

Pawwed Rig

Decent enough week for me. I jumped to week 2 of the boards plan despite not having completed week 1 due to tendon pain after the Swords 10k.

Monday - 1 hour slow run 6:20 avg per km. Too fast to qualify as very slow which is something I need to work on.

Tuesday - 1hr 35 min slow run avg 6:20 per km. see above

Wed was the interval session running 8 mins at 5km pace x 3 with 3 min intervals where I hit very slow pace bookended by 6 mins at very slow.

Thurs - 1hr 38 mins slow/very slow at 6:44 per km. Getting better at the very slow bit

Friday - off

Saturday Progression run 30 mins at 6:30 km pace 20 min at 6:20 km pace 20 min at 6 min km pace

All the runs ticked off for the week and the tendons are no worse now than they were a week ago. I am going to do some beach running in the coming few days which should help a bit.

Question for @Lazare or other experienced head, I assume 2 x 1:30 min slow runs do not equal 3 x 1 hr slow runs? My runs for the week are more than is in the plan with 2 runs 30 mins rather than the 1 hr in the plan. Is this a bad thing? It is part of my commute to work so hard to shorten but can do if that would be best.

Lazare

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120949452#Comment_120949452

Hey PR, great week. You're a great man for the consistency.

I'm not 100% sure what you're asking exactly.

If we take a span of three days, I would think 3x 60 min easy runs is better than 2x 90 min with a rest day. I'm a firm believer in running as often as is possible. Although the mileage may be the same, the 3x builds consistency, routine and habit better.

With your commute are you asking whether it's a bad thing to do a double day, 2x 30 min runs instead of 1x 60 min?

If so, no I don't think so at all, it's likely marginally better.

Pawwed Rig

My commute is 90 mins. I have been just using this as an extended 60 min slow run and maintaining the other 2 slow runs for the week. For example I will run 60 min slow on Mon then 90 mins Tues and Thurs. These are my 3 slow runs for the week.

My question is whether to maintain it at this or cut the Monday run as then I will be doing 2 x 90 mins = 3 hours rather than 3 x 60 min. My instinct is that the 3 runs are better which seem to agree with your message above albeit that I am doing an extra 70 mins running being 60 + 90 +90 instead off 60+60+60

Lazare

Ah, I get you now.

I don't think it's a problem for you specifically to keep it in given your history. You could possibly reduce it (Mon) to 40 mins maybe just to keep on the safe side.

Pawwed Rig

Another decent week for me. Got all the runs in and body feeling good although after the long run yesterday I was fairly tired

Monday Target 1 hr @ 6:51+mins/km (very easy) - actual 1hr @ 6:22/km (still going too fast)

Tuesday - rest

Wednesday - 8x3min @ CV. Found this one tough enough as it is the first time I did a faster run for a while.

Thursday - Target 1 hr @ 6:51+mins/km (very easy) - actual 1 hr @ 6:49 (not bad)

Friday - Target 1 hr @ 5:48-5:58mins/km (moderate) - actual 1 hr @ 5:46 (again not bad)

Saturday LSR 2hr 15 mins easy (6:30/km) - actual 2hrs 15 @ 6:22. I incorporated the parkrun in the last 5km of this and I should have stashed a bottle of water at the finish line as I was completely dehydrated at the end of the run. It was my first time running more than 10 miles since May and the first time over 20k since Belfast.

All runs done first thing in the morning before breakfast. Mostly done on the beach which is really helping the achilles issue. i am actually walking without a limp now.

Total for the week 59km/37 miles

10 mile in Phoenix Park next weekend. What's the thoughts? Use it for the 90 min progression run from the boards plan OR race it ?

Lazare

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120974193#Comment_120974193

I would suggest racing the FD, I think you will derive more benefit than the alt option.

You'll always learn something valuable from a race, but given you said Wednesday's CV session was the fastest you've ran in a while I think it would be good to go blow the cobwebs off.

Aim for slightly slower than that CV pace and see how you get on. Don't fear failing, we learn from that too.

Pawwed Rig

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120979770#Comment_120979770

More afraid of screwing up my foot like I did in the 10K last month tbh and then missing another week of training.

Lazare

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120980199#Comment_120980199

Ah ok. Well if it feels niggly to the point where you think it's a risk well then maybe easing off on it is the best option.

MisterJinx

Starting to doubt myself and the plan bit bit now!!!!!

Had an ok first week on holidays but for the second week I only got in an easy 10k and a 2.15 Moderate run. The weather changed and we had to prioritise kids activities as it had been mostly raining the first week so I could run as there wasn't much else going on.....

I have the FD 10 mile this weekend, ran yesterday 6k easy and will do a 10k easy today but not on Friday I think!. Looking at the rest of the Grads plan I'm getting concerned that I don't see any really long 30K+ runs. I'm see a lot of others at these types of distances now and concerned that my furthest has only been 26K. I'm racing this 10 mile and the HM and those aren't in the grads plan so I was swapping out LSR's for them. My feeling is now that maybe I'm short on distance for the remaining weeks? Any opinions?

Pawwed Rig

The 3 hour easy is the longest run in the plan. For the Belfast training I did that brought me to just under the 30km mark which is 18.5 miles. I have read elsewhere that any training in excess of 3 hours is wasted training so maybe that is the rationale here. It was something that concerned me aswell and if you read back in the thread I probably mentioned it.

I got my target time in Belfast based on this training plan so that tells me it was effective so I am slavishly following it again for DCM.

What's the worst that can happen? 😵

Lazare

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120990283#Comment_120990283

I don't think so. As PR said, the three hour run is going to be close on 20m.

Plus, you've got plenty of moderate pace long stuff that's within days of solid sessions.

I wouldn't worry about it. I think people can get too hung up on the magic 20 miler. Important maybe for a first timer from a psychological perspective, but not the be all and end all.

My plan tops out at 16m. Shy of 26k.

Lazare

You've obv had a small detour off plan with your hols, that can make you question things. Don't though, you've tons and tons of time left to build.

MisterJinx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120992975#Comment_120992975

Yeah I suppose so. It is 11 weeks away. Hols was a bit of a detour alright, second week really didn't go to plan and had a lie of travel as well, I'll have to just move on from it. Feeling OK though and metrics all seem OK in terms of effort, hr and pace.

Did think last year that I peaked a little early, big hm pb in the pp, hopefully for this year it peaks closer to the marathon, this might just be wishful thinking but we'll see over the next few weeks!

Dublinlad1989

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120990283#Comment_120990283

I had this problem last year, didn't get enough long runs in and once i hit over 30km in the marathon i was done. Legs weren't used to that distance. I've been working with my coach this year and incorporating longer runs increasing by 1km each week. will top out around 32/34 km and then have a good taper of 3 weeks before the marathon. But everyone is different so do what works for you (this probably doesn't help so i'm sorry lol)

MisterJinx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120994355#Comment_120994355

probably not what I wanted to hear 😣 Just going to trust in the plan

Lazare

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120994355#Comment_120994355

Hitting the wall/ bonking at 30k is extremely common and it's nothing to do with legs not being used to the distance.

It's about not managing effort and pace correctly. Did it myself.

You don't need to run 32k in order to be able to run 30k +.

We do our long runs purely for aerobic building, not so the legs 'know' what the distance feels like.

There's definitely a psychological and confidence building element to running the 20 miler but your marathon will not be negatively affected if you don't run one. Assuming the rest of your build is of high quality.

Pawwed Rig

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120983839#Comment_120983839

I took your advice and went for it. I found the run fairly tough going. I was going a a decent pace until about 7km in when I just ran out of gas and dropped my km times by 30 secs or so. Dunno was it the heat or the wind or those bloody hills.

That said my expectation was to finish somewhere between 75 and 80 mins. I did it in 79 which is the slow end but still a decent shift and as you said blew off a few cobwebs.

I cycled in and out aswell but when leaving the house I had a flat so had to grab my wife's bike which is smaller than mine. Much tougher to cycle it and taking the 2 journeys I cycled about 28km. I was wrecked when I got home. Barely left the couch since 🤣

edit - not a bother with the tendons so all is good

Lazare

Brilliant stuff PR 👏

Delighted you went for it, and a cracking time too.

Conditions were pretty tough, that wind on the acres was something else. I was actually laughing at how insane it was.

Tough course anyway, very draggy, so very well done 👏

Murph_D

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120999969#Comment_120999969

Expectation between 75-80 mins... that's a vast range for a 10 mile race! The Wellington Monument hill is about 7k in - a difficult part of the race all the same and it might have been wise to expect to dial it back there and then consolidate on the more manageable drag up Chesterfield. It's a tricky course and the conditions were not ideal yesterday. I suppose one of the things about racing better when you start becoming more experienced is to manage the course well, having worked out in advance where the difficulties will be. That means you know you're going drop the pace at certain points but also that there will be opportunities to pick up later. Easier said than done of course. Certainly good that you came away with a positive result.

Dublinlad1989

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120997327#Comment_120997327

I agree its a huge psychological and confidence building in marathon training to run a long distance such as 20 mile but i wouldn't agree in saying that you don't need to run long distances in order to be able to complete the marathon. Running longer distances is as you said for the aerobic building but also so we know what its like running on tired legs. Last year i wasn't able to get many long runs in due to illness and family and when it came to the marathon it was completely uncharted territory and i paid the price for it. The rest of my training block was spot on and stuck to all runs on the plan.

But everyone is different and what works for some people won't work for others and its all about finding whats right for you :)