Boards DCM22 Graduates Thread - A Deeper Understanding

DeepBlue

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120053185#Comment_120053185

Tempo, unfortunately, is one of those terms whose precise meaning can fluctuate depending on who is using the term so context is important. I'm sure MurphD pointed this out.

In the context of this plan tempo pace is the pace band you get when you input a recent race time into the https://runfastcoach.com/calc2/ calculator and check the results in the training paces tab. Again you'll see from the same results in the training paces tab that the threshold pace band is faster again and the CV pace is faster than both.

Threshold pace would be the point at which your body is at the limit of clearing the lactate that you are producing. If you run faster than that then you will produce more lactate than you can clear leading to pain and a sudden drop in pace or an end to the run. It's sometimes referred to as the maximum pace you could sustain for an hour.

Tempo pace would be slower than that. 5k pace would be faster than threshold pace as most can run a 5k in far less than an hour and for many 10k pace would also be faster than threshold if your 10k times are less than an hour.

skyblue46

If you're aiming for 3:59 then just trust the plan and the associated paces on runfastcoach.

As has been pointed out there are slightly different interpretations of tempo and threshold.

CV, Critical Velocity, improves cruising speed. New Years Day is not the time for detail but it has to do with muscle fibre recruitment.

Pawwed Rig

Cheers lads. The link makes a lot more sense now.

Dublinlad1989

Happy new year everyone!

Hope you all had a great Christmas :)

The last two months for me have been a bit mental with moving house, a week away in December and then the snow/ice which means not much running then to top it all off I ended up catching the bug that was going around. Feeling nearly back to normal today so starting to put a plan in place for training and have started to book some races for the year.

Here's what i have booked so far:

March - Tallaght 5k

April - Manchester Marathon

Athletics Ireland Race series

May - 5k

June - 5 Mile

July - 10 Mile

September - Great North Run(Half Marathon) in Newcastle

October - DCM 2023

And i'll book the Marathon race series when they are released as well!

Hope everyones training is going well! I'm ready to hit the new year with a bang and in my new running shoes which have been calling to me since christmas day haha

KSU

In the context of these plans

CV - Critical Velocity - This is the effort you could sustain for an all out race of roughly 30-35 min race effort which can be anything from about 5k to 10k (in elites even a bit further) depending on your level

Tempo in this context of this plan is not to be confused with normal definition which is used interchangeably with Threshold (pace can sustain for an hour)

Tempo is defined here as effort that could be sustained for an all out 2hr effort. Unless you are Eliud Kipchoge this will be slightly faster than Marathon effort and closer to Half Marathon effort if you are in 2hr shape ( or in around 4 marathon target effort)

Lazare

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120053078#Comment_120053078

Excellent PR, I see you've gotten expert answers on your questions. It may need reminding that KSU is the architect of these plans so his advice and help here is priceless.

How has your first week of it gone for you?

Lazare

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120058830#Comment_120058830

Great stuff Dublinlad, a solid racing plan. I assume Manchester is the target then right now? Just making sure you're not doing too much 5k specific stuff for Tallaght.

What are your hopes for Manchester?

Jbat

Happy New Year all, finally got back into it myself this week after not doing much over christmas.

Tues: 1 hour 20 mins avg pace 6:22 per km

thursday: 1 hour football

friday: 30 mins at 7:00km per km

saturday: 1 hour 30 mins at 6:22 per km

i got a heart rate monitor for Christmas so have been doing my runs keeping the heart rate in the mid 140s. This seems to tie up well with the pace calculator apart from when going uphill when I have to slow to a crawl :).

signed up for the Wicklow half at the end of March so that’s the target. Gonna do the base plan for 6 weeks first anyway. Did a 5k just before Christmas and was 21:15 so have lost a bit of fitness but nothing too bad.

Pawwed Rig

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120073385#Comment_120073385

It went fine. I kind of jumped the gun a bit as I thought they were 16 week plans so started a bit early. I am also trying to run everyday in January and clean up the diet a bit so my running this week has been as follows

Monday - 2 hours slow (17km run) I never wear headphones when running but this run made me reconsider. Nice early morning run on Dollymount though.

Tuesday - 6km slow and a 30km cycle

Wednesday - 10x2 min @ CV w/ 2 min rec (6 miles). This one was the toughest run of the week.

Thursday - 15km slow

Friday - 9km slow

Saturday - Slowed down my parkrun a bit and then did a further 5k (2.5k to the park and 2.5k home again) very slow

Sunday - 12.5k slow

General feeling is that the above is probably too much to be doing and I am still going too fast for some of the slow and very slow runs on the plan. Tendons are holding up well although had a bit of pain in the last km on Friday. I assume I can mix the plan up a bit and do the long runs earlier in the week? I really don't want to lose my Sundays.

Dublinlad1989

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120073402#Comment_120073402

Yep Manchester is the main target at the moment! Then Dublin, any other races in between will be a benefit but not the main goal.

I'm aiming for 4 hours for Manchester, this was my Dublin goal last October but ended up with Covid in September then a chest infection 3 weeks out which scuppered any goal I had. My main focus is getting the miles in the legs and mainly long runs, I only had 2 runs longer than 21km for Dublin because of being sick so have a solid plan going into this training block.

I'm working with a coach who has implemented lots of different run types, at different paces and interval training which is something i didn't do for Dublin.

So 4 hours is the goal but i'll be happy with any improvement on my previous time which i know is achievable :)

Lazare

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120082340#Comment_120082340

That's truly impressive stuff P. You said in Dec that you were going to run every day in Jan, fair play for following through on that, it takes great commitment, especially January.

When you say you have a feeling you're going too fast, is it that the effort feels a little too hard sometimes? Did you get hold of what your easy and v easy paces are from the calculator? Maybe the overall volume could be pared back a little if you're feeling niggly.

No worries at all switching your days around to suit your lifestyle. On my own DCM block all of my long runs were done on a Saturday. When everyone else was out doing 20 milers on a Sunday I had a short recovery jog. That just suited me far better. So yeah, do what works.

Lazare

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120084593#Comment_120084593

Nice. Absolutely achievable, smashable 👊

The interval training will be a game changer. Remember (even though you unfort missed a lot) the boards novice plan is designed to get you around it, a fantastic plan for a first DCM for myriad reasons, but spicing things up with some serious stuff is where the magic happens.

Great that you're working with a coach. Proper next level stuff.

Pawwed Rig

My times creep faster while I am running. A very slow run, for example, should be 7 mins+ for me according to the calculator whereas I keep needing to pare it back every time I look at the Garmin as I will be down at around 6 mins

Probably just takes a bit of getting used to

Lazare

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120087334#Comment_120087334

It does. Like anything really it's simply about practice. Try to focus on how you feel at the correct pace, your breathing especially, your posture, what your stride is like. By doing that you'll begin to learn what the effort should feel like, and it then makes it easier to keep your body in that rhythm. Over time then that pace number changes positively, while the rhythm stays the same.

py

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120087334#Comment_120087334

I will on occasion put an alarm on my watch to alert me if my pace is too fast. Whilst it is annoying at first, it keeps your pace in check without putting you at injury/fatigue risk.

masterK

Happy new year all.

I've kept up some running over the Xmas period (30km per week ish) but plan on stepping up from this week on.

My main goal is the Cork Marathon at the start of June, aiming for sub 4 again. Dublin didn't go to plan for me after cramping up badly in both legs. I need to choose a plan, I've been reading over a few and am leaning towards the Meno plan, it seems to have a nice variation in the runs.

I've also entered the Wicklow half, I did this last year and ended up having to walk for a bit after going off way too hard for the first 15k. It was a great experience none the less as I was still very much a newbie to distance running back then.

Naked Lepper

does anyone have a decent 3.30-3.40 training plan?

HM22: 1.38

DCM22: 3:52

skyblue46

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120088798#Comment_120088798

Is there any reason not to use the plan attached to this thread? It's a very well rounded plan. I went from 3:48 as a novice to 3:16 a year later on the grads plan.

To be honest getting out 5/6 times a week, every week, consistently building will bring you on hugely. It's far more important than the small details in different plans.

Naked Lepper

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120089165#Comment_120089165

Thanks. I had not been following the thread in ages and forgot there was a plan attached.

Lazare

Guys I've dropped the ball somewhat not mentioning this sooner, but there are a few of us (5x confirmed) meeting up on Sunday morning at 9am for a social run. The visitors centre in the Phoenix Park is the meeting point.

Do you think any of you guys could make it along?

Organised by @skyblue46, link to the thread here https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058276729/run-meet-january-15th#latest

It will be a regular thing, maybe monthly, so if you can't make this one no probs, there'll be more. It would be fantastic to see you guys there.

FinnC

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120088798#Comment_120088798

The Runners World plans are pretty decent and have different plans based on time goals. I used one years back when I was going for a 3:30

Murph_D

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120089165#Comment_120089165

Completely agree with this. I did my own first 3:40 and 3:30 off a boards grads plan that was great fun but probably a good bit less sophisticated than the grads plan attached here. As Skyblue says it's all about good habits and consistency really.

Dublinlad1989

Happy Monday everyone!

Here's my update from last week.

My first full week of running since before christmas, ended up catching that chest infection that was going around so christmas was a quiet one running wise.

Monday - 6k @5:30

Tuesday - Rest

Wednesday - 8k @5:30

Thursday - 1.5k warm up, 10 x 400m @4:35 pace per km, 1.5k cool down

Friday - 8k @ 5:40 per km

Saturday - 12k @ 5:45 per km

Sunday - Rest

Total - 42km

Overall a really good week and legs felt really good throughout the week, looking forward to this week and have a solid plan in to start increasing the distance and managing my pace.

Have a great week everyone

MisterJinx

First update from me in a while! I think in my last update after being sick I was starting to get back on track a bit an increasing the mileage. It was going ok heading into Christmas week, few nights out and all that so expected to take a bit of a dip over the days but just like @Dublinlad1989 I got one of those chest infections/bugs/wipe out thingy's on Christmas eve. Four days in bed and took a bit to get over it I have to say.

Bit disappointed that I was sick again in such a short space of time, I don't know if that Marathon training lead to any of this but it's very unusual for me to be sick so it knocked me off my stride so to speak.

Got back into it after New Year but it's been slow going as work has been very heavy going, long days and lots to do so I've really been stuck at the desk quite a lot and it's been a drag to get out. I did get my first interval session done last Monday and actually, even though I was still a bit chesty, the time for the intervals were surprisingly good. I'd say I have trimmed maybe 4/5 seconds off per 400 interval compared to the last sessions which were in July/August. I am reaching a little more for the new times but I definitely feel it's there and I think over the next couple of months I think I can get them down to a consistent 5 seconds below for each while in control and not fading towards the end.

YTD is 7 runs, 70K, not brilliant but there you go. GAA is starting back now for the elder child this week and in 2 weeks time for the youngest so this actually forces me to get out and step away from work so I don't need the motivation, it just has to be done :-)

Raheny 5 mile is coming up and I need to book myself a HM, just haven't done the admin yet to confirm some dates I am available and go book something, must get the finger out!

Also for any grads reading this, there was a boards run on Sunday in the Phoenix park. they should be on monthly so if you are looking for company for a Sunday long run it might work for you in future.

Jbat

Missed my long run this week unfortunately had the kids all weekend. Did an ok midweek though so kept ticking over. Hoping for a better week this week.

will try to join in the next boards run too :)

Monday 1 hour @ 6 20

wednesday 40 mins @ 6 00

thursday 1 hour football

friday 30 mins @ 6 05

masterK

I got back into the swing of things last week, managed to get 5 sessions in covering 55km in total including a one hour moderate run and a 20km lsr on Saturday.

My main goal in the short term is the Cork Marathon at the start of June, I've pretty much settled on using the Meno training plan so that will kick in from early February.

I might try and squeeze a park run in this Saturday, did my first one in ages a few weeks ago and really enjoyed it

winstonia

Doing Manchester in April. Not really following any plan. Started back up this week. Doing a few 4 and 7 miles during Jan so far. Gonna do a 10 mile this week then increase 2 miles a week every week for a lsr. Will do one tempo run and maybe some strides but will mainly be easy running till April

Lazare

Excellent stuff folks.

It seems the general theme, myself included is that we're all just beginning to ramp things up again after bouts of sickness, lethargy and demotivation. The usual Christmassy stuff 😀

Onwards now for all of us. Let's keep the weekly updates coming in.

Personally I've my eye on Bohermeen half as a target. Originally wanted to chase a 90 minute but am doubtful that's doable now after a sickness layoff.

Had a pretty good week last week, and have my first speed session in a while tomorrow morn, so fingers crossed I can build enough fitness by then to PB it at least.

marathon2022

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120119454#Comment_120119454

Best of luck, I ran it last year and loved it, not as flat as you would imagine but a very enjoyable route.

As for the training, its 12 weeks Sunday, that's a 10 week plan (4 ramp and 6 specific) and two taper. Not perfect but certainly enough to get to the start line in good shape.

Dublinlad1989

Happy Monday everyone!

Here's my weekly update. Another increase in the total mileage for the week and more work on pacing/more tempo runs.

Monday - 8km @5:30 per km

Tuesday - 8km: 4km @5:30 per km and 4km @5:15 per km

Wednesday - Rest

Thursday - 1.5km warm up, 8 x 800m @5 min per km, 1.5km cool down

Friday - 8km @5:40 per km

Saturday - 14km @5:45 per km

Total km: 48km

My easy runs are becoming a lot easier than where they were a few months ago and tempo runs are feeling much better. #

Have a great week everyone