Boards DCM22 Graduates Thread - A Deeper Understanding

Pawwed Rig

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121010975#Comment_121010975

There are a number of long runs in the plan. This weekend there is a 2hr30min run and the longest run is 3 hours in a few weeks. You may or may not exceed 20 miles in the 3 hour run depending on how fast you run. I did about 18.5 when I did it.

Pawwed Rig

Good week for me. Got all the runs in and no bad effects

Monday Target 1 hr @ 6:51+mins/km (very easy) - actual 1hr @ 6:41/km (reasonable)

Tuesday - 40 min temp. Target 5:12-5:20/km Actual 5:20

Wednesday - Target 1 hr @ 6:51+mins/km (very easy) - actual 1 hr @ 6:23 (too fast)

Thursday - Target 1 hr @ 5:48 - 5:58/km (moderate) - actual 1 hr @ 5:48 Found this run a lot easier than the very slow runs funnily enough.

Friday - rest

Saturday LSR 2hr 30 mins easy (6:30/km) - actual 2hrs 02 @ 6:38 with 10 min break and then 36mins at 5:49/km. Again I incorporated the parkrun in the last 5km. Found this run straight forward enough if not a bit tedious. Parkrun helps a lot though.

Sunday - rest

Again runs mostly done on the beach

Total for the week 62km

Lazare

Motoring PR, fair play. Just watch those Wed runs, sandwiched between harder effort days you really need to focus on keeping things easy/recovery.

Pawwed Rig

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121039655#Comment_121039655

Yeah I know. I was lost in thought about something else so was turned out of the actual running part 😁

MisterJinx

So, where am I at.. bit of a rambling post I think...

I did the DCM HM. Finished in 1.33.25. It was a fine result but probably about 1 minute slower than I expected. I wasn't disappointed as I went into it not focused on a pb and wanting to keep it controlled and hard but not flat out. I was with a nice group until about 13k and I just didn't have the energy to keep with them and slipped off a little, happened again at 18k when I started to go backwards a little (not a huge amount like in the FD10) but I certainly had to work for the last 4k. When I look back at last year I did a proper taper for the HM with 2 easy runs and a short recovery in that week, this year I'd 4 runs including an hour of marathon pace tempo, significantly more and I could feel that in the legs. I basically ran this to HR and kept it in low threshold rather than high threshold. All in all not bad, would liked it to have been a little bit better but considering all factors it's about right.

Training has been going better actually. I modified the Grads plan and decided to get my long runs longer but put stuff in them. The first went horribly at the end as I did 30 mins easy 1 hour steady and 30 mins easy but it was that really hot day and I just overheated and left too much easy at the end and had to crawl home. However I've done 1 hour easy, 30 steady, 30 pmp, CD and that went well and well as just regular long runs from 2.15 right through to 3 hours.

My mid week tempo sessions have been going well (following the grads plan structure for those). What I see compared to last year is a higher pace at a lower HR, and that is really encouraging. the session yesterday was really good and I was holding 30 mins pmp pace in my tempo HR zone as opposed to last year in low threshold. My easy HR has also dropped quite a bit. These are all really good signs. What I do feel is that I may be training myself for a good marathon, my races have been a bit off this year, I don't seem to be able to get into that pain zone of +threshold and suffer through, but the pmp effort seems easier and more comfortable.

The body is holding up better than last year too. This time last year I had a 2 week recurring visit to the physio with my lower back and achilleas/claves. My back is holding up this year and I'm managing the legs myself at home and don't need the physio at the moment (getting down the stairs in the morning is a fun experience though!!) I made a conscious decision to not chase miles this year. I'm averaging +70k per week over the last 5 weeks, I did an 85k week and just backed off a little and I'm feeling the better for it. I was just listening to the body and focused on the recovery it probably needed rather than getting out 7 days a week. I know there is a direct correlation between performance and mileage but I think another year is needed to step up again to be consistently in the +80k range in a block.

My mind has turned to times myself as well for Dublin. I've used a few of the conservative online calculators and I'm seem to be getting back a 3.22 or 3.23 result. I'm just mulling that over at the moment, it's seems about right (assuming the day itself goes ok), my tempo efforts (and I do it to effort not pace) are coming out at about 4.45 m/km, slightly up on last year with a lower HR as I mentioned. Does this seem about right to others?

I'll learn from last year and hold back a little more, I went at 27k in Terenure and should have waited just a bit longer. I also won't use the pace pro feature on the watch which was really distracting, I'll just go on my HR (probably a bit controversial) with my pace as the output and keep an eye on the pace range across the hills etc. I think last year I was a bit focused on a negative split whereas I just want to run it even as best as possible with a steady effort.

Lazare

That's some really solid training P, and thinking. Mindset is such an important thing and you have the right one.

For my DCM last year I planned to race it solely by HR. My plan was to test to determine my exact threshold rate a couple of weeks out. Mentioned all this in the improvers thread at the beginning of the block and a couple of people subtly suggested it maybe wasn't a great idea.

I did start to doubt it then. I was listening to a Science of Sport podcast around then and Ross Tucker was talking about how race day, and all the excitement and adrenaline that goes with it tends to raise your HR naturally.

I decided then to shelve it and focus on pace as a guide.

I figured if the numbers on the day weren't matching what I trained to it would be a disaster.

Certainly monitor HR, or use a mix of HR and pace but keep the above in mind and avoid stress and panic if the numbers aren't where they're expected to be.

MisterJinx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121170232#Comment_121170232

Cheers C. It's a fair point. I certainly wouldn't use it exclusively however I think it is what will keep me in check for long enough in the race that I can finish it stronger than last year where I shipped a couple of minutes. I "think" I'm familiar enough now to know what I can hold HR wise and what I can't, the concern would more be in me sticking to a pace irrespective of the HR and then blowing up.

Murph_D

Ha, I was probably one of the people suggesting to C to train by HR but don't race by it. I stand over that. On the day you have to trust your target and just figure out the best way around the course (pace wise) to achieve it.

That HM time in the middle of M training, on a course that simulates the Dublin course fairly well while also having bottlenecks, is the best indicator you'll get. 3:22 is certainly not aggressive, assuming you've got the marathon specific bits of the training regime right. It's not unaggressive either, mind - you'll know after 10k at that pace where it's going to get you on the day.

Anyway a few more weeks to go before you have to nail the colours to the mast.

Murph_D

Ha, I was probably one of the people suggesting to C to train by HR but don't race by it. I stand over that. On the day you have to trust your target and just figure out the best way around the course (pace wise) to achieve it.

That HM time in the middle of M training, on a course that simulates the Dublin course fairly well while also having bottlenecks, is the best indicator you'll get. 3:22 is certainly not aggressive, assuming you've got the marathon specific bits of the training regime right. It's not unaggressive either, mind - you'll know after 10k at that pace where it's going to get you on the day.

Anyway a few more weeks to go before you have to nail the colours to the mast.

Lazare

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121174288#Comment_121174288

Yep, it was you alright haha.

You were subtle, but the message got through.

Pawwed Rig

Mixed bag couple of weeks.

I decided to push at the race series half marathon as one of my goals for the year was a half pb which I got (by 7 mins or so). I did it in 1:44:29 in what would have been threshold pace per the plan in post number 1. I was largely comfortable throughout and took on adequate water and even took a gel pack on the hour mark.

Roll on Monday and my legs were very tired. I did the 60 min very easy anyway but was very sluggish. I had a tempo run scheduled for Tuesday but just did another 60min very easy and did same again on Wed. The legs were still tired so I skipped Thurs (which is the first run I missed throughout the programme. On Sat I had a tempo run scheduled but replaced it with the 2hr 30 min slow run as my thinking was the half was tempo enough.

Legs still feel a bit sluggish but I managed the 2 x 30 min tempo run this morning without any difficulty so hopefully all is ok.

Longest run of the plan scheduled for this Sat 👍️

Lazare

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121188876#Comment_121188876

What a whopper PB!!

That's absolutely fantastic. Totally fine to feel it in the legs all week, and you did the correct and sensible thing by adjusting things.

Fair play, great to see.

masterK

I thought I posted a quick update the other day (must have forgot to press post 😁).

It's been a pretty frustrating period for me, started feeling some groin/pelvis pain about 6 weeks ago so stopped running, it was taking forever to heal so did try a couple of light runs with a view to still doing the DCM half but the pain was still there so gave the half a miss. I've been to a physio a few times now, he reckons it's Osteitis Pubis. It's one of those where all i can really do is rest and take an anti inflammatory.

I'm hoping I'll be back running soon as the pain isn't too bad. It's a pity as I'd put in a really good 5-6 weeks training before it and felt in super nick, that's the way it goes sometimes I suppose.

Dublinlad1989

Well everyone, how are we all doing?

Hope everyone is ready and looking forward to the big day!

Training has been going really well for myself, had a bit of illness in september and ended up missing the HM but have been back out for the last few weeks and feeling great, I was going to run the HM and just take it easy but made the decision to rest and its paid dividends in allowing me to get back to training. Finally into taper from this week after a 34km run on Sunday and legs feel great.

I've found myself focusing a lot of training my mind, i know the legs have the distance in them but that little voice keeps creeping in to slow down or take a stretch break so have been listening to david goggins motivation on repeat haha

Hope everyone is feeling good!

MisterJinx

Doing ok @Dublinlad1989 Was at the physio today just to get some of the tension taken out of the calves. Bit of dry needling and all set.

Had a bit of a mare with the last LSR but it was hot and I was hungover so that is bound to happen. Otherwise I'm still clocking in the miles and started the taper now.

My mind is still on the time goal. My sessions have been going really well. My tempo has been coming in a low zone 3 compared to mid to high last year for roughly the same paces, at the same time and in the same shoes. It does give food for thought. See below, my avg HR is below 150 and not peaking to 152 on the tempo laps on the last couple of sessions where as I was averaging 154 to 156 and peaking at 160 last year. I think I have about 10 bpm to spare in additional fitness compared to last year.

It does make me wonder about whether I should aim for 3.20. I might set off closer to the 3.20 pacers this year and see what the HR is doing and how I'm feeling. If I have them in sight (which I didn't last year as I hung back quite a lot in the wave) then I can make decisions on the course based on how I'm feeling.

comparison.png

Pawwed Rig

All too real now 🥶

Any advice on toenails? Mine were a mess after the last marathon. Second/index toe fairing the worst. Both fell off after a couple of days. Other toenails didn't look too hot either.

TheRef

Yikes. Luckily I've never had toenail issues myself, but I've been reading a bit recently on ultras, where this is a little more common. The advice tended to be get a shoe with a bigger toebox or size up a half, and keep your nails trimmed. Also, use heel lock lacing. Other than that, maybe a thinner sock (e.g. Steigen)?

MisterJinx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121258403#Comment_121258403

Mine are in a mess, I've 5 black toenails! However it is just an issue for me, always had it, and I've tried everything so solve it. I think it's not the shoe size for me it's more that my toes curl up a bit when I'm running at pace and that causes the damage. I try and keep the nails as short as possible, not so easy when they are in the condition they are, and also for marathon day you could try and stick some narrow thin plasters on the nail itself to help with the cushioning and rubbing

T-Bird

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121258487#Comment_121258487

Strangely enough I lost all apart from my big toenails from wearing a pair of trainers that were a size too big for me. They were Novablast 2s and felt ok in the shop (the 12 were sold out in the sale). I wasn't too sure it was the shoes until I tried them out again a few months after and same happened again.

py

A size up in socks. Apply anti chafing creme between your toes. When fitting socks, don't pull them tight around your toes. This has helped me.

thefa

Anyone know what exactly is in the race pack apart from the bib?

I can’t race but live relatively close so weighing up is it still worth collecting.

Mitch Buchannon

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121289528#Comment_121289528

I guess we are going to get a new bobblehat/beanie again. then the usual free energy bar, vouchers for this that and the other... Bib & hat would be the main thing id imagine.

chabsey

Just picked mine up this afternoon. Quite a lot of stuff, I'll what I can remember -

Bobble Hat

Deodourant

Mini Cheese biscuit things

Flapjack

Couple of bottle of hand sanitizer

Joint ace tablets

Protein shake

Two small chocolates

Sachet of flaxseed

Nivea face soap

Packet of crisps

Think that's it. You can also pick up a few muller yoghurts and muller protein shakes as well as presumably lots of samples etc.

Lazare

Want to wish all you 2022 grads the very best of luck for Sunday.

You're all marathon improvers now.

Remember all the sage advice you capitalised on last year and put it into practise again for DCM2023.

Same but faster, same but fitter. Go and smash it you legends.

Hopefully see some of you in McGrattans afterwards.

masterK

Best of luck to everyone running tomorrow, looking forward to the reports

winstonia

Looking forward to spectating for once. Bringing the bike along to cheer on a few friends. Will be offering gels at 20 miles

Pawwed Rig

Best of luck everyone. Enjoy the day and the basking in your glory for the afternoon.

@Lazare thanks for all the help and advice for the last 12 months. Have a good one

Dublinlad1989

Hope everyone had a good day yesterday! I hit my target of 3:54 which is 41 mins better than last year.

Everything went perfectly as planned and I felt extremely comfortable throughout the run.

After the run yesterday I said to my wife that my legs aren't that sore 😂😂 different story today, I can barely walk!

Lazare

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121302698#Comment_121302698

Yes!!!!

Awesome stuff. So happy for you.

MisterJinx

DCM #2 - probably another of my long and rambling posts !! I've changed my mind and cutting out some of the rambling :-)

I decided over the last few weeks that I was going to go out and let the day decide on what I was going to get. I'd work off the HR and the paces and keep a good strategy in place to manage myself but if the pace wasn't playing ball or it wasn't my day then I wasn't going to let that stress me out. A goal was sub 3.20, B goal was between 3.20 and 3.25 C was sub 3.30 and D was just to finish without walking if the wheels came off altogether.

Finishing time 3.19.57

5k splits; 1st 23.56; 2nd 23.53; 3rd 23:03; 4th 23:28, 5th 23:43, 6th 23:27, 7th 23:39, 8th 23:33

1st Half 1:40:18 2nd Half 1:39:38

Average HR 155, max 170, 76% below 160, 16% above and into threshold.

I'm very happy with those stats, even was what I wanted, I don't like to be chasing myself in the second half, it doesn't suit me.

At 10 miles I was holding sub 155 HR and on the flats I was averaging low 4:40 mins per km. At half way the average pace was 4:43. It was consistency personified. I was taking it easy on the hills and I knew at this stage that all I had to do was to keep the show on the road and I would do fine. I was comfortable, always comfortable, never pushing the pace unlike last year.

The starting position made a difference, I was never alone, there was a loose group all the way, especially through Crumlin, through the Walkinstown roundabout and Terenure and this is where I struggled last year as I was on my own and trying to force a pace. There was a man from Athenry AC that I must have run 3/4 of the race with, constantly yo-yo-ing back and forth as I managed my effort on the hills and picked it back up again on the flats and downhill.

I was about 150 meters starting behind the 3.20 pacers, I would have liked to have been closer but I decided to prioritise queuing for a quick pee before starting and had to for-go getting right up to them. They went out from me at the beginning and in the pp but I would catch regular glimpses of them at Milltown in particular I remember and it kept my spirits up that I hadn't drifted.

In Clonskeagh I had to start working a bit more and I remember then going through 34km and taking my last gel which was a caffeine one while I was working it was still very manageable and the HR was in the right place. I had remembered something Skyblue46 said in his report of Amsterdam, it's easy until all of a sudden it isn't, I was doing my checks and everything was fine, I was prepared for it. At 37k I was doing the mental calculations, 25 mins to run 5K, all I had to do with keep the show on the road and there were no signs I couldn't.

A swerve in the road to high 5 my best mate outside RTE and we are on the home stretch. Around Vincent's hospital where I had to start walking last year and now it's not easy anymore, now I have to work for this. That is a very very long finishing straight. Moving but it's hard, there are walkers but I'm not going to be one of them. I'm digging in now, arms moving and keeping the legs ticking over. I can't really look at the watch, I don't want to see the distance left.

It's hard but the support is great, I'm keeping going. Reaching the purple mile, on reflection the maths had let me down at 37k, although I made sure to run the race line as much as possible there is probably nothing to do about the extra couple of hundred meters covered. Someone shouts 800 meters to go, looking down I see 3.16, I've plenty of time. I veer to the right of the yoke in the middle of the finishing straight and then see the clock on the gantry, 3.20 and something, I look at my watch, 3.19.3x, f%%%, I had to get the ass in gear, it would be cruel to miss a sub 3.20 by a second or 2, comms split to finishing split 23 seconds, 3.45 m/km - that was close ;-)

For myself I couldn't have asked for a better race, it went how I wanted, felt good and only hurt when it should have. I wasn't under pressure and didn't have to chase myself or a pace. The rain was lovely, I like running in the rain, it's very refreshing and keeps me nice and cool. I had my cap and when it was really bad I'd put it on. The crowd were amazing too, I sure wouldn't have stood out there in that rain supporting for hours. My family were at 5k, a work colleague saw me on the SCR, another at the half way house, my boss on the Clonskeagh road, a mate at the top of heartbreak hill and another at RTE. I got a boost from seeing all of them and it was great, it really kept me going, I was only expecting one or 2, the rest were just luck. I'll make sure in future to get out and support if I'm not running.

I got drenched getting from the bag drop to the pub, the heavens opened and they had a load of barriers in place that weren't there last year, it was more difficult than it should have been and impossible to get back to see Mrsjinx without a serious trip around the roads, had to wait and collect her after she finished. We enojyed a few pints and how for a pizza and a big sleeps, well deserved.

Yesterday was a good day, at mile 10 I knew it was a good day and you know when you know.