Pedestal for houses with no driveway

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120802334#Comment_120802334

That doesn’t answer my question.

My proposal is simply for pedestals to be at the side of the road, not on the footpath.

How does the proposed approach make things difficult for motorists?

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120802286#Comment_120802286

When you say private space, do you mean that it’s a numbered space, specifically allocated to that property?

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120802082#Comment_120802082

Don’t see how they would need wider charging spaces. The chargers would be between parking spaces, at the front or rear of the vehicle, not at the side.

liamog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120803454#Comment_120803454

To address the jutting out kerb that I outlined in message you quoted.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120803469#Comment_120803469

So let the kerb jut out between parking spaces.

liamog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120803481#Comment_120803481

Leading to a need for a wider space which would mean space needs to be taken from somewhere else. Far better to have a straight kerb and have the space between used as extra width on the pavement like we do for all other roadside infrastructure.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120803494#Comment_120803494

Are we misunderstanding each other? I'm talking chargers that would sit on the roadside at the boot or bonnet of the parked car. Parking spaces would be the same width as before, so there would be no impact on road space available. 

John_Rambo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120803429#Comment_120803429

Steel pedestals on the road are a danger to cyclists, scooters and other vulnerable road users. That's why they don't put lampposts, electricity poles, junction boxes etc... on the road, it's dangerous and it's stupid. They're consigned to the footpath where the speed is more sedentary and collisions rare.

I know you're an online cycling advocate and an online activist but some of the stuff you come out with is ridiculous.

liamog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120804930#Comment_120804930

To be fair to @AndrewJRenko we also like to put lamp posts in the middle of cycle lanes, but I don't think anyone here is suggesting we stick a charging pole in the middle of one of those.

liamog

I mocked up two pictures of how this could work. The first is a workable system that can be used to retrofit residential charging capabilities into existing sustainable streets in a way that isn't pulling the ladder up behind people who either can't afford a house with a private driveway or have deliberately picked a property with a more efficient land use.

https://imgur.com/D170VRk

The 2nd almost certainly wouldn't be accepted as a retrofit, the parking spaces no longer meet size requirements. It's different if the whole street is designed this way from day one, in which case I'd be extending the jutting out bit to the edge of the road anyway and adding plants to the rest of it.

https://imgur.com/1oJez3p

A full retrofit to change the layout of the street to install islands every two spaces is well beyond the capacity of any individual property owner.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120804930#Comment_120804930

They're not ON the road, they are at the side of the road. Do drivers often drive at the very side of the road?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120805096#Comment_120805096

Thanks, that's very helpful - It was option 2 that I was thinking of, though maybe with a narrower pedestal base, to minimise impact on parking.

John_Rambo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120805580#Comment_120805580

Lamposts are not on any part of the road, side, middle, left or right. Neither are street name signs, benches, bollards, litter bins, post boxes, phone boxes, streetlamps, traffic lights, traffic signs, parking metres, fire points, electrical junctions, parking metres, metro poles, poster poles, village pump spouts, venting machines or planter boxes.

Putting this type of street furniture on a road would be moronic. Just like your moronic idea of putting steel bollards with high voltage electricity in them on the side of the road. Trucks, cars, vans & bikes would run in to them.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120805649#Comment_120805649

You're making a strong case for decluttering of footpaths there, though I'm not sure that 'village pumps' are a particularly relevant precedent for electronic chargers. We don't generally allow petrol pumps on the footpath, they are usually on private property of a private service provider. I don't see any good reason for allowing EV chargers on footpaths.

I'm sure we could come up with some solid, scratchy, well lit protection around the charger to deter dangerous drivers. If drivers are really going to make a thing of crashing into roadside chargers, then they can start paying the replacement costs or just go without.

liamog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120808218#Comment_120808218

The good reasons have been outlined to you, if your choosing to ignore the fact that people without their own driveways have needs then I can only assume it's out of some form of elitism and that you feel more land should be in private possession instead of the more sustainable shared usage and integrated streetscapes that we see in sustainable focused countries.

I prefer to think of streets as a community resource and not simply racetracks for people to pass through as quickly as possible, serving the needs of people in the area should be the priority not pandering to those who are simply using it as a short cut.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120808316#Comment_120808316

Is there some confusion about my comments? I never suggested that people shouldn’t have access to chargers. The chargers can still serve the needs of people at the roadside.

liamog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120808437#Comment_120808437

Your insistence on complicated street redesigns to accommodate their ability to charge versus installation of singular charging posts where there is space is effectively blocking them. It's a great tactic to ensure that people who can't afford a private driveway are blocked.

No private homeowner is going to be allowed to perform a complete redesign of the public realm in the way you envisage.

markpb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120808518#Comment_120808518

For an average terraced street in Dublin, there is a line of parking on one or both sides. Those parking spaces aren’t marked out individually, it’s just the edge of the road. Putting an AC pedestal with protective kerbs or bollards is all that is required. It’s not a complicated whole-street redesign. I’m not sure where you’re getting the idea that anyone has suggested anything else.

And why would a homeowner be required to allow the street to be redesigned?

liamog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120808811#Comment_120808811

Think it through, you are now re arranging all of the parking spaces and other infrastructure on the street to build out the islands for the charging posts. Do you think you as an individual is going to be facilitated in doing that?

Each street needs to be treated differently, for the old style terraced streets like you see in Stoneybatter it's absolutely going to need to be council led and have designed out islands sitting between spaces, with a charging service provider running the AC point. For the more modern estates like the one shown in my mock-up, enabling charge point installation at the kerbside is a much more sensible prospect as there is more than adequate space at the kerbside for a safe and sensible installation without the need for a full blown redesign of the streetscape.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120808518#Comment_120808518

Why does moving it 10cm further out suddenly require “complicated street redesign”? This suggests that we don’t need to worry about pedestrian needs at all, but when motorists are impacted, it’s suddenly a huge deal?

No private homeowner should be allowed progress anything like this without full consideration of the impacts on the community. It seems like you’re trying to brush over the needs of pedestrians.

liamog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120808892#Comment_120808892

It's not 10cm further, you need around 20cm clearance around any pole that's sticking up in to the roadway. At that point you need to re layout the parking bays on the street to give suitable sizes.

Where am I brushing over the needs of pedestrians, the area of installation is commonly used when we're putting up any other infrastructure in the same places such as signage and bollards. Why is it only when the pole is doing something constructive for a person that lives on the street that you have a problem? The street is for the people that live on it.

John_Rambo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120808218#Comment_120808218

I never mentioned petrol pumps.

Your proposals are stupid. Just because they serve cars they should be on the road, that's ridiculous it's like asking that bikes should only be parked on cycle lanes. If you want to be takes seriously as a cycling advocate you're going to have to be realistic.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120808934#Comment_120808934

You’re brushing over the needs of pedestrians by saying that a “complicated redesign” is needed to put them at the side of the road, but not needed to throw them up on the footpath,

Option 2 of your own redesign didn’t seem that complicated to me.

Chargers aren’t for everybody, btw. Not everyone drives, and not everyone can afford an EV. Using public space to accommodate the private transportation of better off people isn’t some great socialist equalisation policy.

liamog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120808994#Comment_120808994

The needs of pedestrians are not impacted by installing poles in a place where poles are usually installed at the side of the road in any areas where there is space for them.

We use public space to accommodate the private transportation needs of people in many forms. Wanting to stop it now because you don't want to facilitate the people who can't afford driveways from being able to operate an EV is extreme. EVs aren't just for for rich classes that own private driveways no matter how much you want them to be. Why would a person who doesn't drive be installing any equipment to serve a car that they don't have.

Accommodating the needs of people who live in streets is exactly what we should be doing as a society. We need to look at solutions that enable everybody to move to cleaner modes of transport. Whether this is switching from a diesel car to an EV, or allowing the installation of bike lockers on streets, new thinking is required.

Take my 2nd picture as example, if the street was designed that way from day 1 it wouldn't be an issue, however it wasn't. The homeowner is now going to need to get all of the spaces on the street moved to account for the extra space taken by the islands. Presumably when a homeowner down the street does the same we're going to go through the whole same process. If the charge pole is installed kerbside pedestrians still have access to a suitable wide pavement area which would not cause issues for any buggies or wheelchair users that need to pass.

DaveyDave

This is the public charger installation at the visitor spaces in my estate, 10% of spaces in SDCC require chargers. It's a complete non issue that I walk past regularly and doesn't impede pedestrians or pose a risk whatsoever. I would much rather a private charger installed on the edge of the footpath or along a curb between parking spaces rather than within the parking space itself. Parking spaces are only 5x2.4 and the road is only 4m wide, people reversing out of spaces on the other side of the road don't have enough room to get out of a space without encroaching the parking spaces on my side of the road. With my Born or Golf both 4.3m long it's important we park as close to the footpath as possible so nobody reverses into our cars. Those with driveways have the extra space of the footpath to enable turning into the road without going onto someone's private space.

If the charger is installed in the space itself then that means a longer car like a Passat or A6 is too long and will stick out onto the road. Parking beside a charger pedestal wouldn't be an option as we don't have enough room to fully open the doors of our cars as is. I park to the leftmost side of the space as does my missus so we both have space to get out of the car and will continue doing so to enable access for a child seat.

Anyone arguing that "public property shouldn't be used for private gains" should consider that the council are the ones taking away private driveways from households and making developers shorten/narrow the plans for spaces leaving very little room for two cars. It should also be noted we paid the same price for the house as one with a driveway.

This is something the council completely overlooked or don't care about since they have an anti-car agenda for new planning rules.

Ideal installation location outside my house:

irishgeo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120802286#Comment_120802286

I'll probably do this. I'm just waiting for the builder to finish the last few houses and I'll wait for the taking in charge period and plough ahead with this.

3DataModem

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120803436#Comment_120803436

Yes.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120810809#Comment_120810809

I'd guess that the Council wouldn't be taking that in charge so, or certainly not as a private space. That doesn't happen on Council property afaik.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120809368#Comment_120809368

Cars aren't rectangular at the edges. When you park two cars in a row, there is generally a decent bit of space between the two vehicles. Fitting a pedestal like this would not require parking spaces to be resized. Maybe we should just tell people to stop buying ridiculously oversized tanks for doing the school run, and they'll haven no difficulty fitting into the current spaces, with a pedestal.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120809496#Comment_120809496

Did you ask many people with sight loss about whether it impedes them?

liamog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120811004#Comment_120811004

Yes it would, we have rectangular vehicles and rectangular parking spaces for a reason.

The example of the space DaveyDave posted, you'd prefer them to reduce the width of the footpath and instead build that same charge point on a sticking out piece of concrete? That's the reality of what you are calling for. The net effect is exactly the same, well done your disdain for people who can't afford driveways has resulted in a worse situation for everyone.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120812379#Comment_120812379

Cars aren’t rectangular though. They are rounded at the corners. There’s lots of gaps between parked cars, plenty of room for a small pedestal without impacting existing parking.