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Pedestal for houses with no driveway

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,964 ✭✭✭John_Rambo


    I never mentioned petrol pumps.

    Your proposals are stupid. Just because they serve cars they should be on the road, that's ridiculous it's like asking that bikes should only be parked on cycle lanes. If you want to be takes seriously as a cycling advocate you're going to have to be realistic.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,776 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    You’re brushing over the needs of pedestrians by saying that a “complicated redesign” is needed to put them at the side of the road, but not needed to throw them up on the footpath,

    Option 2 of your own redesign didn’t seem that complicated to me.

    Chargers aren’t for everybody, btw. Not everyone drives, and not everyone can afford an EV. Using public space to accommodate the private transportation of better off people isn’t some great socialist equalisation policy.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 8,086 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog



    The needs of pedestrians are not impacted by installing poles in a place where poles are usually installed at the side of the road in any areas where there is space for them.

    We use public space to accommodate the private transportation needs of people in many forms. Wanting to stop it now because you don't want to facilitate the people who can't afford driveways from being able to operate an EV is extreme. EVs aren't just for for rich classes that own private driveways no matter how much you want them to be. Why would a person who doesn't drive be installing any equipment to serve a car that they don't have.

    Accommodating the needs of people who live in streets is exactly what we should be doing as a society. We need to look at solutions that enable everybody to move to cleaner modes of transport. Whether this is switching from a diesel car to an EV, or allowing the installation of bike lockers on streets, new thinking is required.

    Take my 2nd picture as example, if the street was designed that way from day 1 it wouldn't be an issue, however it wasn't. The homeowner is now going to need to get all of the spaces on the street moved to account for the extra space taken by the islands. Presumably when a homeowner down the street does the same we're going to go through the whole same process. If the charge pole is installed kerbside pedestrians still have access to a suitable wide pavement area which would not cause issues for any buggies or wheelchair users that need to pass.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,325 ✭✭✭DaveyDave


    This is the public charger installation at the visitor spaces in my estate, 10% of spaces in SDCC require chargers. It's a complete non issue that I walk past regularly and doesn't impede pedestrians or pose a risk whatsoever. I would much rather a private charger installed on the edge of the footpath or along a curb between parking spaces rather than within the parking space itself. Parking spaces are only 5x2.4 and the road is only 4m wide, people reversing out of spaces on the other side of the road don't have enough room to get out of a space without encroaching the parking spaces on my side of the road. With my Born or Golf both 4.3m long it's important we park as close to the footpath as possible so nobody reverses into our cars. Those with driveways have the extra space of the footpath to enable turning into the road without going onto someone's private space.

    If the charger is installed in the space itself then that means a longer car like a Passat or A6 is too long and will stick out onto the road. Parking beside a charger pedestal wouldn't be an option as we don't have enough room to fully open the doors of our cars as is. I park to the leftmost side of the space as does my missus so we both have space to get out of the car and will continue doing so to enable access for a child seat.

    Anyone arguing that "public property shouldn't be used for private gains" should consider that the council are the ones taking away private driveways from households and making developers shorten/narrow the plans for spaces leaving very little room for two cars. It should also be noted we paid the same price for the house as one with a driveway.

    This is something the council completely overlooked or don't care about since they have an anti-car agenda for new planning rules.

    Ideal installation location outside my house:


    Post edited by DaveyDave on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,570 ✭✭✭irishgeo


    I'll probably do this. I'm just waiting for the builder to finish the last few houses and I'll wait for the taking in charge period and plough ahead with this.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,051 ✭✭✭3DataModem




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,776 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    I'd guess that the Council wouldn't be taking that in charge so, or certainly not as a private space. That doesn't happen on Council property afaik.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,776 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Cars aren't rectangular at the edges. When you park two cars in a row, there is generally a decent bit of space between the two vehicles. Fitting a pedestal like this would not require parking spaces to be resized. Maybe we should just tell people to stop buying ridiculously oversized tanks for doing the school run, and they'll haven no difficulty fitting into the current spaces, with a pedestal.

    Did you ask many people with sight loss about whether it impedes them?



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 8,086 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    Yes it would, we have rectangular vehicles and rectangular parking spaces for a reason.

    The example of the space DaveyDave posted, you'd prefer them to reduce the width of the footpath and instead build that same charge point on a sticking out piece of concrete? That's the reality of what you are calling for. The net effect is exactly the same, well done your disdain for people who can't afford driveways has resulted in a worse situation for everyone.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,776 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Cars aren’t rectangular though. They are rounded at the corners. There’s lots of gaps between parked cars, plenty of room for a small pedestal without impacting existing parking.




  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 8,086 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    I suspect if you were asked to regular store something important to you in the same part of a parking space you would strongly object as it's a silly place.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,930 ✭✭✭zg3409


    Not my photo, not mine, installed this week, looks like white isolator at the rear. The local kids will love that!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,930 ✭✭✭zg3409


    Another pic



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,776 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Oh no, how will the local drivers survive the trauma of having to not drive into it when parking?

    Just curious - is this in on a managed development, do you know? It looks like a sensible approach.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 8,086 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    Would very much depend on the width of the space. So long as it's still in tolerance then it won't be an issue, a thing that your absolutism doesn't take into account.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,930 ✭✭✭zg3409


    Don't know if permission was asked by anyone or given. Looks like they cut the path and re cemented it afterwards.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,325 ✭✭✭DaveyDave


    The pedestals installed in neighbouring estates to me are all privately managed like mine, they're taking the ask forgiveness approach and I don't blame them. I've lived in my house for 3 years, the estate has existed for 7 years and has only just been completed. The council have no obligation to even take over the estate. I don't believe they have taken over any of Adamstown, Co. Dublin and that has been around for about 15 years now.

    New estates are already setup for council to have an entirely hands off approach. Everything is heavily landscaped so the council don't even have to come in to cut the grass. Public chargers at visitor spaces PSO levy, maintenance and equipment rental is all paid by residents management fee.

    If I don't hear anything about SDCC taking over my estate at our AGM meeting in November I'm getting my charger moved to a pedestal immediately. The council don't want people having a driveway but also don't have any plans for where chargers are going. My local councilors have been repeatedly asking about it for 8-9 years now.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,570 ✭✭✭irishgeo


    It's local election time soon. I know I'll be asking. We don't have a management company in our estate.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,890 ✭✭✭...Ghost...


    Do you realise that parking spaces are required to have a minimum length and width? These are 2.4m wide and 4.75m long.

    The complication you are willfully ignoring is rather simple. Imagine we have 4 parking spaces uninterrupted alongside a kerb in an estate. Meeting the minimum standards (as so often this is all they meet), the full size is 19m x 2.4m.

    Now lets take your advice and place a pedestal inside the parking area, beside the kerb, extending the kerb into the park area at any point along the kerb-side. The requirement is for clearance of 20cm from all sides. A pedestal is at least 10cm^2.

    The clearance would be:

    [ (20cm from kerb) + (10cm Ped thickness) + (20cm from Ped to edge of parking space) on both L & W ]. This would require a concrete area of 50cm x 50cm in the parking bay and this is for a single charge point. It would take away 1 parking space, because the minimum requirement would no longer be met. We are now requiring an addition 50cm of linear parking space per charge-point.

    The only positive I see with this setup is we could technically fit 3 charge points into the same zone for the remaining 3 spaces, because the area is too small for the 4th space even with a single charge-point. This could cause serious bother for the residents who are losing already scarce parking spots.

    Or we could do the smart thing and install the charge point on the path, just like we do with signage, railings, bike racks, lamp post, bollards, traffic lights and a whole lot of other stuff our fine blind folk seem to able to navigate without your faux concern.

    Stay Free



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 8,086 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    You missed one @...Ghost... we could remove the extra space from the width of the pavement by the those spaces. The ideological purists would get their charging posts in parking spaces and the pavement would be unobstructed (but narrower)

    A somewhat pyrrhic victory.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,890 ✭✭✭...Ghost...




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,776 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Or we could do what was done in the photo above.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,890 ✭✭✭...Ghost...


    The installation posted above looks sub-standard to me. Where the minimum space requirements are maintained, of course we could use the parking bay area for an installation. In most cases, this would not be the case and the parking area is too small. Take a tape measure with you and see for yourself the sizes of the parking spaces. Then reduce each one by a half meter (both length and width unless the width happens to be 2.9m or greater) and see if it's still meeting the required size.

    Unless you suggest we ignore the parking design standards?

    Stay Free



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,776 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    I'm just suggesting that we fit the yoke into the available space? We can just tell drivers to stop buying obnoxiously large vehicles too, that will free up some more space.

    It's just about stopping bending over yet again to design society around accommodating drivers and cars. We've been doing a bit too much of that in the past few decades, and it hasn't worked out so well.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,890 ✭✭✭...Ghost...


    Seems to me you're suggesting we ignore the design and planning rules because you have a chip on your shoulder when it comes to cars.

    If the option is to place the pedestal on the path where similar footprint items are placed (bollards, lamp posts etc) or to re-design the parking bays every time a charge point is installed, I think it's fair to say the smart approach is the former.

    People buying oversized vehicles is a separate issue. The crazies going around letting air out of tires probably feel the same as you do.

    Stay Free



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 8,086 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    Mod Note: This is not the forum to discuss whether cars should be part of our society or not, that topic is more suited to the politics forum and should be done so there



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,776 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    What redesign is needed for the example in the photo above?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,890 ✭✭✭...Ghost...


    Without seeing the full space and dimensions, I don't know if that space needs a redesign, or if it now meets minimum requirements. It's also a corner space which are occasionally designated for wheelchair users (not in this case) and are larger because they utilise where available the extra few inches left over after divying out the minimum space for the rest of the spots. That install just doesn't look right to me. For a start, looking at the clearance from the isolator switch to the kerb is less than 20cm. If its not a designated spot, someone else could easily damage their car and the equipment not seeing a black pedestal with black charge point inside the parking space.

    Even if we knew for sure this space still met the requirements, most will not accommodate a charge point on a pedestal and still meet the design requirements. We haven't even considered the additional depth of the charge point itself, which protrudes from the ped. All this is solved by using the same placement methods used to erect a bollard, or a sign, or lamp post......on the path, not on the road.

    Stay Free



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,776 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    I'm guessing that this is an assigned space, not available to the public. So the only people parking in it should know well about the charger, and adjust their parking accordingly.

    Moving it onto the path doesn't solve problems. It just moves problems onto a different audience.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,890 ✭✭✭...Ghost...


    You're guessing. It may or may not be assigned. I see no msrkings to say it is assigned, so its propably unassigned but mainly used by the person benefitting from the installation. In any event, its just one space and one (poor) example of an installation.

    Moving it onto a wide enough path solves many problems. There's loads of space on the path for it. It only creates problems in your head.

    Stay Free



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,776 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Are you aware of the annual Make Way Day campaign organised by a coalition of disability organisations?



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,325 ✭✭✭DaveyDave


    If you want to talk about being blind or disabilities let's talk about how these parking spaces in new estates aren't disabled freindly. There's no space to allow access into a vehicle or a dropped curb.

    Since the charger pedestal is the issue...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,776 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    If they are building disabled parking spaces that don't comply with design guidance, that may well be a planning compliance or building control compliance breach, so you could put in a complaint to one of those.

    Any obstruction on a footpath causes difficulties for people with disabilities. We've got enough difficulties already.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,325 ✭✭✭DaveyDave


    They aren't building disabled spaces, the issue is that new houses built with narrow parking spaces aren't wide enough for proper access for able bodied people, nevermind disabled. And there's no access from the parking space to the house due to a curb.

    I have 30cm on each side of my car when parked in the middle. My size 11 shoe is bigger than that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,890 ✭✭✭...Ghost...


    No, but I am also not aware of the campaign to stop cyclists from riding on footpaths which are used by disabled persons. Does the campaign ask that lamp posts, signage and railings be relocated to the road?

    Every day and month of the year is claimed for some group, or campaign. Its nauseating. It doesn't change the fact that a pedestal is better placed on a sufficiently wide footpath than in a parking space which just barely meets the minimum requirement.

    Stay Free



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,776 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Mod Note: Snip, driving on footpaths, is not the subject of this discussion

    Who is the placement on the footpath better for?

    Post edited by liamog on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,890 ✭✭✭...Ghost...


    As you are unable or unwilling to answer questions put to you which don't suit your narrative, I'll leave it there.

    Stay Free



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,776 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,488 ✭✭✭TheChizler


    This is common enough for parking meters when footpaths are too narrow to be narrowed again, drivers just had to adapt. The pedestal doesn't get in the way because you can't park bumper to bumper anyway cause you need to leave room to swing out of the space, it just enforces drivers parking positioning. And yes drivers ignore the double yellows here.

    https://maps.app.goo.gl/wM81F6S7baAcuGGw6



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  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 8,086 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    Yes, near enough everyone has already accepted that style for pavements which do not have suitable clearance areas on the footpath. Small islands make absolute sense in those cases and I don't think anybody is arguing against them.

    For streets like that they will need to be delivered by a central authority (such as a mgmt company) as without suitable design it may lead to a reduction in the overall number of parking spaces. This can be problematic for properties that have shared parking areas but with a set number of spaces in the deed. I used to live in a house that did not have dedicated parking but the deed did allocate two parking spaces in the communal on street parallel parking area. In practice, this meant that we always used the two spaces outside my house.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,890 ✭✭✭...Ghost...


    On the street you linked, I don't think parking should be allowed at all because its so narrow. However, as there is parking, it's only right to point out that its not on an estate and there are no sizing limits marked for parking cars. As such, no spots are are designated in anyway and cars can be parked up to the point to as many as can fit alongside the pathway.

    Now, go to the end of the road to the estate and you will see marked spots and the parking meter on the path for reasons already given on the thread.

    11 Church St

    https://maps.app.goo.gl/3rTZzgSHuPNCmm8c6

    Stay Free



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,325 ✭✭✭DaveyDave


    In Lucan Village the path is very narrow in places. Nobody seems to have an issue with parking ticket machines in an era of text to park/online payments. Some areas of Dublin just have a sign to say what colour zone you're in to pay for parking online.

    The placement of the parking sign poles isn't great (just put them next to the machines?) along with bins taking up space in tight locations near other signs/trees that could be moved. A sign for traffic lights right beside traffic lights, a sign post pointing to the ticket machines of which there are plenty and easy to find etc.

    It's always busy with pedestrians, walking my bike along the path is definitely a pain at times but the electric charger on the path I posted previously is a complete non issue compared to this.




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,930 ✭✭✭zg3409


    Prepare to be offended.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,771 ✭✭✭✭ted1




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