Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Please note that it is not permitted to have referral links posted in your signature. Keep these links contained in the appropriate forum. Thank you.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2055940817/signature-rules
Hi there,
There is an issue with role permissions that is being worked on at the moment.
If you are having trouble with access or permissions on regional forums please post here to get access: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058365403/you-do-not-have-permission-for-that#latest

Pedestal for houses with no driveway

  • 19-10-2022 8:11am
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,930 ✭✭✭


    Taken from Facebook

    Thought some people might benefit from this post. I don’t have a private driveway. My house is terrace in a housing estate.

    Before I bought the Ev car I enquired with the local county council about running a ev charger out to the footpath. I was given an immediate yes.

    The conditions where, I had to get a company who would do the grounds work and apply for an open roads license.

    However I saw some builders installing a driveway for a council house near by and asked them about it. They so happened to do contract work for the council and they even knew the local council engineer by name and the local council engineer allowed them to carry out the work without the need of an official open roads license for the job(which costs extra money).

    EPower provided the charger and installation, which came with a Safety certificate for peace of mind.

    A local welder made the pedestal for me which cost me €150.

    I’m using the eo mini which I have to say has been fantastic, easy to use, up to 7.7kw speed and supper tiny and the app has a great UI.


    If you have any questions about the EV charger installation grant PM me 😉


    Hope this helps anyone looking to do the same.





«1

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 178 ✭✭Old Jim


    Tidy installation.

    Does a pedestal mounted unit require an isolation switch?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,930 ✭✭✭zg3409


    Same question was asked on Facebook. I have seen public ones with isolators and ones without. I am not sure rules are 100% clear and it might cause more issues than it solves. There is an isolator in the garden in this case. It was cork county council a few years ago.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,393 ✭✭✭Fingleberries


    My understanding is that, yes, an isolation switch is still required.



  • Registered Users Posts: 329 ✭✭Fathead


    looks great did you have to go under the footpath with the cable



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,493 ✭✭✭✭TitianGerm


    Imagine you forgot to turn off the fuse inside and the locals were helping themselves to your electricity 😂



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,930 ✭✭✭zg3409


    Based. On the Facebook comments they dug up the pathway but in some cases it may be possible to run cable under the path instead.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15 iamconsultant


    Can u help on how did u secure the approval which county council was it any contacts..??



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,930 ✭✭✭zg3409


    This was on Facebook, person is not on this group. It was a specific council area, Cork I think. Some comments suggested person may have gotten lucky and if the another person applied it would probably have been refused.

    Except for this case I don't know if any council approved pedestal on council land or crossing council footpath in Republic of Ireland. A good few have received approval in apartments or gated communities with management companies but it's typically a battle.

    Maybe put up a photo of your parking layout, if you have an assigned space and if footpath is own by council or someone else, and which council area only then can we give relevant advice.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,776 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    We really shouldn’t be taking footpath space to accommodate private property like this. Stick the pedestal on the road, at the kerb if absolutely necessary.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 8,086 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    We regularly use the public realm to facilitate the activities of private individuals, we also regularly use the margins of pavements to facilitate infrastructure such as signage and poles. So long as design standards are followed which result in sensibly sized pavements designed to enable use by vulnerable road users such as wheelchair users and buggies are followed it shouldn't be a problem.

    I wouldn't see this style becoming common on narrow streets such as below, where islanding onto the roadway would be a much better option.

    https://www.google.com/maps/@53.3494498,-6.2753478,3a,75y,25.08h,71.35t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1syb-Oub0vCZws2My1EdXffA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu




  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,909 ✭✭✭munchkin_utd


    the one thing though, if the resident wants to charge from the kerb at their house wouldnt they also then need to be able to reserve the spot outside their house?

    If you multiply that by all kerbs in a city, where only the person in the house can park there, then the space is empty whilst they are at work or on holiday but cannot be used by anyone else.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,890 ✭✭✭...Ghost...


    I am of the opinion that such infrastructure is placed at the edge of a footpath (including signage and railings) because it is much less likely to be damaged by motorists attempting to park. If the pathway is wide enough to accommodate a wheelchair user with the infrastructure on the path, then I see no problem with it. I would personally prefer retractable poles for private users which would be flush with the ground when not in use, but that would cost quite a bit more.

    Stay Free



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 856 ✭✭✭Ronney


    That looks a great job but I would be very cautious about running private power supplies through a public area. Am very surprised a council allowed this.

    The best solution I think is to roll out chargers on lampposts like this below.

    A private company could be given the license and allowed to charge to speed up the install and zero the council cost

    https://ubitricity.com/en/charging-solutions/ac-lamppost/



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 8,086 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    In practice this is much less of an issue than most people think it is. In estates with "shared" parking people usually come to arrangements regarding who's space is whose. It's only in the relatively few truly shared streets where a more communal system from a centralised provider is better. We need to make sure that people without driveways aren't left behind, townhouses are a much better use of limited living space than everyone having driveways, it's just all part of a broader consideration of how we plan our communities.

    My own preference would be for neighbourhoods to have underground garages built under the roadway. That way we can keep the streets for people.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,930 ✭✭✭zg3409


    There is ubitricity trial in malahide the past few years. https://www.plugshare.com/location/329746

    Similar in Dun laoghaire.

    Main issues

    Normally lighting wiring no good so new power cables needed. ESB networks dont allow non esb networks to run cables between poles which means an esb meter for every pole and associated standing charge. The pole and light are typically changed and a new earth rod is needed. By the time you are finished you may as well put up a pedestal close to light pole.

    In terms of council terrace houses with no parking for example the council themselves say they don't want to roll out banks of public AC chargers on every street preferring DC charging at nearby hubs or shopping centres.

    From a shared parking perspective public points would be better when no one has a designated space but I can already see the cost to run public AC points on quiet public streets will mean charging fees will be high or they won't be maintained and or go bust.

    There is no easy, cheap, perfect solution, and nationwide rollout probably would cost a lot. I can't see it happening any time soon nor blanket approval for one off cases like shown.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,570 ✭✭✭irishgeo


    I have got a different issue. In order to get a cable to my parking space I need to cross the public footpath. Im not sure who to ask for permission got that as the estate is still under control of the builder not the council.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,930 ✭✭✭zg3409


    Council won't give permission nearly definitely and someone may object to a cable with a trip preventer as it's still a trip risk. If you could tunnell under the footpath and do something very discreet it might be the only way to do it or look up.

    "charge arm" which swings out above footpath. You could DIY a home made version.

    Some people cut a channel in the path to slip a cable into and there are some products specifically for this.

    If someone objects you can always stop...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,506 ✭✭✭✭Marcusm


    From a positive perspective, a multiplicity of poles like this would stop people parking on the footpath!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,776 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Put them on the road, at the kerb. They'll stop people parking on the footpath, and still leave space for pedestrians, wheelchair users, parents pushing buggies, people helping a relative who uses a walking frame and more. Footpaths are for feet.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,890 ✭✭✭...Ghost...


    Makes sense. 3 things that annoy me on footpaths are:

    Cars.

    Dog shìt.

    Cyclists (especially when there is a cycle lane right beside them).

    Stay Free



  • Advertisement
  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 8,086 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    From a road safety point of view you are better off including the charge points at the kerbside and reducing the width of the carriageway. Alternatively building out full islands with trees. Narrow carriageways reduce speed far more effectively than speed bumps and painted signs.

    It's pretty easy to demonstrate that footpaths are not just for feet, we use them for any number of other items such as benches and trees. You need to think of the entire width of a street as a system and make it a nice liveable place instead of treating it purely as a racetrack to get people through as quickly as possible.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,964 ✭✭✭John_Rambo


    People in apartments and terraced houses have tiny carbon footprints, anything to help them reduce it further should be encouraged. This pettiness is comparable to banning cyclists from being locked up on non approved bike parking areas.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,776 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    How would putting chargers on the road instead of the footpath make it harder for people in apartments and terraced houses to reduce their carbon footprint?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,776 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Yes, islands , benches and trees are all good ideas, things that are generally available to everyone. Whereas chargers have a more restricted audience, just motorists, so the roadside is the best place for them.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 8,086 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    There all part of street furniture, reducing pavement width to place them roadside has to be one of the silliest idea's I've ever seen on boards.ie



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,776 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    I didn't suggest reducing pavement width - quite the opposite.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,371 ✭✭✭markpb


    I think you’re reading something that hasn’t been said. EV chargers are only for cars so put them on the road in between parking spaces. Putting them on the footpath is unfair to pedestrians who gain no value from them.

    There’s an argument that people are crap drivers and will crash into them but a) that’s still no reason to penalise pedestrians and b) as you said, there are engineering solutions to avoid equipment damage.

    Which bit of that is contentious?



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 8,086 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    One of the simplest mechanisms to protect roadside infrastructure from encroachment is via the use of kerbing. Installing charging posts on a small approx. 20cm jutting out kerb will lead to a need for wider parking spaces to give adequate safe clearance, a much better idea is to provide a continuous kerb between them, we call this pavement. This avoids extra trip hazard due to have a continuous kerb.

    An ideological approach of stick them in the road because only vehicle owners is ridiculous compared to a more joined up approach of design the streetscape to suit all users. The streetscape refers to all the space between private land either side of the road. For narrower roads I'd much prefer to see chargers combined with tree planting to create islands between spaces which has the extra benefit of narrowing the street to reduce speed.

    In modern developments where we rely on townhouses and terraces with shared parking due to their more efficient land use as mentioned by @John_Rambo. We should be designing the streets in such a way that the addition of charging points is not taking away from suitable pavement widths.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,051 ✭✭✭3DataModem


    A neighbour of ours dug a channel in the footpath and buried the cable. Did a flawless job. Got the pedestal to their private space (that is a bit away from their house). They seem to have done it on the "easier to ask forgiveness" basis and nobody has objected, and nor should they as they job seems to be done properly (isolator, etc). Estate not yet taken in charge, so council presumably not bothered, and managing agent probably not bothered either as it doesn't increase their fees.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,964 ✭✭✭John_Rambo




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,776 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    That doesn’t answer my question.

    My proposal is simply for pedestals to be at the side of the road, not on the footpath.

    How does the proposed approach make things difficult for motorists?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,776 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    When you say private space, do you mean that it’s a numbered space, specifically allocated to that property?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,776 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Don’t see how they would need wider charging spaces. The chargers would be between parking spaces, at the front or rear of the vehicle, not at the side.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 8,086 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    To address the jutting out kerb that I outlined in message you quoted.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,776 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    So let the kerb jut out between parking spaces.



  • Advertisement
  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 8,086 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    Leading to a need for a wider space which would mean space needs to be taken from somewhere else. Far better to have a straight kerb and have the space between used as extra width on the pavement like we do for all other roadside infrastructure.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,776 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Are we misunderstanding each other? I'm talking chargers that would sit on the roadside at the boot or bonnet of the parked car. Parking spaces would be the same width as before, so there would be no impact on road space available. 



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,964 ✭✭✭John_Rambo


    Steel pedestals on the road are a danger to cyclists, scooters and other vulnerable road users. That's why they don't put lampposts, electricity poles, junction boxes etc... on the road, it's dangerous and it's stupid. They're consigned to the footpath where the speed is more sedentary and collisions rare.

    I know you're an online cycling advocate and an online activist but some of the stuff you come out with is ridiculous.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 8,086 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    To be fair to @AndrewJRenko we also like to put lamp posts in the middle of cycle lanes, but I don't think anyone here is suggesting we stick a charging pole in the middle of one of those.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 8,086 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    I mocked up two pictures of how this could work. The first is a workable system that can be used to retrofit residential charging capabilities into existing sustainable streets in a way that isn't pulling the ladder up behind people who either can't afford a house with a private driveway or have deliberately picked a property with a more efficient land use.

    The 2nd almost certainly wouldn't be accepted as a retrofit, the parking spaces no longer meet size requirements. It's different if the whole street is designed this way from day one, in which case I'd be extending the jutting out bit to the edge of the road anyway and adding plants to the rest of it.

    A full retrofit to change the layout of the street to install islands every two spaces is well beyond the capacity of any individual property owner.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,776 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    They're not ON the road, they are at the side of the road. Do drivers often drive at the very side of the road?

    Thanks, that's very helpful - It was option 2 that I was thinking of, though maybe with a narrower pedestal base, to minimise impact on parking.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,964 ✭✭✭John_Rambo


    Lamposts are not on any part of the road, side, middle, left or right. Neither are street name signs, benches, bollards, litter bins, post boxes, phone boxes, streetlamps, traffic lights, traffic signs, parking metres, fire points, electrical junctions, parking metres, metro poles, poster poles, village pump spouts, venting machines or planter boxes.

    Putting this type of street furniture on a road would be moronic. Just like your moronic idea of putting steel bollards with high voltage electricity in them on the side of the road. Trucks, cars, vans & bikes would run in to them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,776 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    You're making a strong case for decluttering of footpaths there, though I'm not sure that 'village pumps' are a particularly relevant precedent for electronic chargers. We don't generally allow petrol pumps on the footpath, they are usually on private property of a private service provider. I don't see any good reason for allowing EV chargers on footpaths.

    I'm sure we could come up with some solid, scratchy, well lit protection around the charger to deter dangerous drivers. If drivers are really going to make a thing of crashing into roadside chargers, then they can start paying the replacement costs or just go without.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 8,086 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    The good reasons have been outlined to you, if your choosing to ignore the fact that people without their own driveways have needs then I can only assume it's out of some form of elitism and that you feel more land should be in private possession instead of the more sustainable shared usage and integrated streetscapes that we see in sustainable focused countries.

    I prefer to think of streets as a community resource and not simply racetracks for people to pass through as quickly as possible, serving the needs of people in the area should be the priority not pandering to those who are simply using it as a short cut.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,776 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Is there some confusion about my comments? I never suggested that people shouldn’t have access to chargers. The chargers can still serve the needs of people at the roadside.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 8,086 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    Your insistence on complicated street redesigns to accommodate their ability to charge versus installation of singular charging posts where there is space is effectively blocking them. It's a great tactic to ensure that people who can't afford a private driveway are blocked.

    No private homeowner is going to be allowed to perform a complete redesign of the public realm in the way you envisage.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,371 ✭✭✭markpb


    For an average terraced street in Dublin, there is a line of parking on one or both sides. Those parking spaces aren’t marked out individually, it’s just the edge of the road. Putting an AC pedestal with protective kerbs or bollards is all that is required. It’s not a complicated whole-street redesign. I’m not sure where you’re getting the idea that anyone has suggested anything else.

    And why would a homeowner be required to allow the street to be redesigned?



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 8,086 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    Think it through, you are now re arranging all of the parking spaces and other infrastructure on the street to build out the islands for the charging posts. Do you think you as an individual is going to be facilitated in doing that?

    Each street needs to be treated differently, for the old style terraced streets like you see in Stoneybatter it's absolutely going to need to be council led and have designed out islands sitting between spaces, with a charging service provider running the AC point. For the more modern estates like the one shown in my mock-up, enabling charge point installation at the kerbside is a much more sensible prospect as there is more than adequate space at the kerbside for a safe and sensible installation without the need for a full blown redesign of the streetscape.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,776 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Why does moving it 10cm further out suddenly require “complicated street redesign”? This suggests that we don’t need to worry about pedestrian needs at all, but when motorists are impacted, it’s suddenly a huge deal?

    No private homeowner should be allowed progress anything like this without full consideration of the impacts on the community. It seems like you’re trying to brush over the needs of pedestrians.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 8,086 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    It's not 10cm further, you need around 20cm clearance around any pole that's sticking up in to the roadway. At that point you need to re layout the parking bays on the street to give suitable sizes.

    Where am I brushing over the needs of pedestrians, the area of installation is commonly used when we're putting up any other infrastructure in the same places such as signage and bollards. Why is it only when the pole is doing something constructive for a person that lives on the street that you have a problem? The street is for the people that live on it.



  • Advertisement
Advertisement