Pedestal for houses with no driveway

liamog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120813723#Comment_120813723

I suspect if you were asked to regular store something important to you in the same part of a parking space you would strongly object as it's a silly place.

zg3409

Not my photo, not mine, installed this week, looks like white isolator at the rear. The local kids will love that!

zg3409

Another pic

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120817215#Comment_120817215

Oh no, how will the local drivers survive the trauma of having to not drive into it when parking?

Just curious - is this in on a managed development, do you know? It looks like a sensible approach.

liamog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120817855#Comment_120817855

Would very much depend on the width of the space. So long as it's still in tolerance then it won't be an issue, a thing that your absolutism doesn't take into account.

zg3409

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120817855#Comment_120817855

Don't know if permission was asked by anyone or given. Looks like they cut the path and re cemented it afterwards.

DaveyDave

The pedestals installed in neighbouring estates to me are all privately managed like mine, they're taking the ask forgiveness approach and I don't blame them. I've lived in my house for 3 years, the estate has existed for 7 years and has only just been completed. The council have no obligation to even take over the estate. I don't believe they have taken over any of Adamstown, Co. Dublin and that has been around for about 15 years now.

New estates are already setup for council to have an entirely hands off approach. Everything is heavily landscaped so the council don't even have to come in to cut the grass. Public chargers at visitor spaces PSO levy, maintenance and equipment rental is all paid by residents management fee.

If I don't hear anything about SDCC taking over my estate at our AGM meeting in November I'm getting my charger moved to a pedestal immediately. The council don't want people having a driveway but also don't have any plans for where chargers are going. My local councilors have been repeatedly asking about it for 8-9 years now.

irishgeo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120818885#Comment_120818885

It's local election time soon. I know I'll be asking. We don't have a management company in our estate.

...Ghost...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120817855#Comment_120817855

Do you realise that parking spaces are required to have a minimum length and width? These are 2.4m wide and 4.75m long.

The complication you are willfully ignoring is rather simple. Imagine we have 4 parking spaces uninterrupted alongside a kerb in an estate. Meeting the minimum standards (as so often this is all they meet), the full size is 19m x 2.4m.

Now lets take your advice and place a pedestal inside the parking area, beside the kerb, extending the kerb into the park area at any point along the kerb-side. The requirement is for clearance of 20cm from all sides. A pedestal is at least 10cm^2.

The clearance would be:

[ (20cm from kerb) + (10cm Ped thickness) + (20cm from Ped to edge of parking space) on both L & W ]. This would require a concrete area of 50cm x 50cm in the parking bay and this is for a single charge point. It would take away 1 parking space, because the minimum requirement would no longer be met. We are now requiring an addition 50cm of linear parking space per charge-point.

The only positive I see with this setup is we could technically fit 3 charge points into the same zone for the remaining 3 spaces, because the area is too small for the 4th space even with a single charge-point. This could cause serious bother for the residents who are losing already scarce parking spots.

Or we could do the smart thing and install the charge point on the path, just like we do with signage, railings, bike racks, lamp post, bollards, traffic lights and a whole lot of other stuff our fine blind folk seem to able to navigate without your faux concern.

liamog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120819098#Comment_120819098

You missed one @...Ghost... we could remove the extra space from the width of the pavement by the those spaces. The ideological purists would get their charging posts in parking spaces and the pavement would be unobstructed (but narrower)

A somewhat pyrrhic victory.

...Ghost...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120819135#Comment_120819135

🤣

.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120819098#Comment_120819098

Or we could do what was done in the photo above.

...Ghost...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120819187#Comment_120819187

The installation posted above looks sub-standard to me. Where the minimum space requirements are maintained, of course we could use the parking bay area for an installation. In most cases, this would not be the case and the parking area is too small. Take a tape measure with you and see for yourself the sizes of the parking spaces. Then reduce each one by a half meter (both length and width unless the width happens to be 2.9m or greater) and see if it's still meeting the required size.

Unless you suggest we ignore the parking design standards?

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120819360#Comment_120819360

I'm just suggesting that we fit the yoke into the available space? We can just tell drivers to stop buying obnoxiously large vehicles too, that will free up some more space.

It's just about stopping bending over yet again to design society around accommodating drivers and cars. We've been doing a bit too much of that in the past few decades, and it hasn't worked out so well.

...Ghost...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120819385#Comment_120819385

Seems to me you're suggesting we ignore the design and planning rules because you have a chip on your shoulder when it comes to cars.

If the option is to place the pedestal on the path where similar footprint items are placed (bollards, lamp posts etc) or to re-design the parking bays every time a charge point is installed, I think it's fair to say the smart approach is the former.

People buying oversized vehicles is a separate issue. The crazies going around letting air out of tires probably feel the same as you do.

liamog

Mod Note: This is not the forum to discuss whether cars should be part of our society or not, that topic is more suited to the politics forum and should be done so there

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120819525#Comment_120819525

What redesign is needed for the example in the photo above?

...Ghost...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120819806#Comment_120819806

Without seeing the full space and dimensions, I don't know if that space needs a redesign, or if it now meets minimum requirements. It's also a corner space which are occasionally designated for wheelchair users (not in this case) and are larger because they utilise where available the extra few inches left over after divying out the minimum space for the rest of the spots. That install just doesn't look right to me. For a start, looking at the clearance from the isolator switch to the kerb is less than 20cm. If its not a designated spot, someone else could easily damage their car and the equipment not seeing a black pedestal with black charge point inside the parking space.

Even if we knew for sure this space still met the requirements, most will not accommodate a charge point on a pedestal and still meet the design requirements. We haven't even considered the additional depth of the charge point itself, which protrudes from the ped. All this is solved by using the same placement methods used to erect a bollard, or a sign, or lamp post......on the path, not on the road.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120820887#Comment_120820887

I'm guessing that this is an assigned space, not available to the public. So the only people parking in it should know well about the charger, and adjust their parking accordingly.

Moving it onto the path doesn't solve problems. It just moves problems onto a different audience.

...Ghost...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120825862#Comment_120825862

You're guessing. It may or may not be assigned. I see no msrkings to say it is assigned, so its propably unassigned but mainly used by the person benefitting from the installation. In any event, its just one space and one (poor) example of an installation.

Moving it onto a wide enough path solves many problems. There's loads of space on the path for it. It only creates problems in your head.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120844464#Comment_120844464

Are you aware of the annual Make Way Day campaign organised by a coalition of disability organisations?

DaveyDave

If you want to talk about being blind or disabilities let's talk about how these parking spaces in new estates aren't disabled freindly. There's no space to allow access into a vehicle or a dropped curb.

Since the charger pedestal is the issue...

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120844653#Comment_120844653

If they are building disabled parking spaces that don't comply with design guidance, that may well be a planning compliance or building control compliance breach, so you could put in a complaint to one of those.

Any obstruction on a footpath causes difficulties for people with disabilities. We've got enough difficulties already.

DaveyDave

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120845688#Comment_120845688

They aren't building disabled spaces, the issue is that new houses built with narrow parking spaces aren't wide enough for proper access for able bodied people, nevermind disabled. And there's no access from the parking space to the house due to a curb.

I have 30cm on each side of my car when parked in the middle. My size 11 shoe is bigger than that.

...Ghost...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120844542#Comment_120844542

No, but I am also not aware of the campaign to stop cyclists from riding on footpaths which are used by disabled persons. Does the campaign ask that lamp posts, signage and railings be relocated to the road?

Every day and month of the year is claimed for some group, or campaign. Its nauseating. It doesn't change the fact that a pedestal is better placed on a sufficiently wide footpath than in a parking space which just barely meets the minimum requirement.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120845995#Comment_120845995

Mod Note: Snip, driving on footpaths, is not the subject of this discussion

Who is the placement on the footpath better for?

...Ghost...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120846014#Comment_120846014

As you are unable or unwilling to answer questions put to you which don't suit your narrative, I'll leave it there.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120845724#Comment_120845724

Maybe you need a smaller car?

TheChizler

This is common enough for parking meters when footpaths are too narrow to be narrowed again, drivers just had to adapt. The pedestal doesn't get in the way because you can't park bumper to bumper anyway cause you need to leave room to swing out of the space, it just enforces drivers parking positioning. And yes drivers ignore the double yellows here.

https://maps.app.goo.gl/wM81F6S7baAcuGGw6

liamog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120849183#Comment_120849183

Yes, near enough everyone has already accepted that style for pavements which do not have suitable clearance areas on the footpath. Small islands make absolute sense in those cases and I don't think anybody is arguing against them.

For streets like that they will need to be delivered by a central authority (such as a mgmt company) as without suitable design it may lead to a reduction in the overall number of parking spaces. This can be problematic for properties that have shared parking areas but with a set number of spaces in the deed. I used to live in a house that did not have dedicated parking but the deed did allocate two parking spaces in the communal on street parallel parking area. In practice, this meant that we always used the two spaces outside my house.