Should there be an obesity tax?

igCorcaigh

No, because:

1. Food is an essential, unlike alcohol or tobacco
2. Obesity is something that can be out of people's control, for many reasons
3. The pressure of fat shaming can cause mental issues
4. It's just damn unfair.
5. I don't want to live in an Orwellian nanny state country, where I can be penalised for my choices.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119706514#Comment_119706514

somebody earlier said maybe people don't have time to cook a dinner. All I am saying is it takes the same time to chop a few veg and sausages or a piece of chicken & throw them into an airfryer as it takes to bake a pizza. If people really need to lose weight then that's not a big effort.... 15 minutes out of your day???

Its too easy to blame life, blame lack of time, lack of motivation etc. If you want your health to improve, to be able to move and breathe better, to have the prospect of a longer life, better outcomes from surgery, the ability to do more then 15 minutes a day should be worth it.

There was an article today on British Bake Off's Laura Adlington who was told to lose 14 stone in order to qualify for IVF to have a baby she always wanted. She is only 33. She has decided not to have a baby as its too hard to lose weight she said. I just felt sad when I read it and hope she doesn't regret her decision when she is older. Its hard to imagine choosing to stay at a very unhealthy weight rather than tackle it and hopefully have a baby.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-11280645/Bake-Offs-Laura-Adlington-reveals-told-lose-14st-child.html

nothing

BMI was never intended to be an individual measure, but a population level measure, and not even then a judgement on someone's body composition.

Anyone who believes, in our pressure filled society which promotes hatred of any body shape that isn't "skinny" or "slim" as if it is a moral failing to be over a certain weight, that others decide or choose to be bigger, that it's some kind of lazy, easy life, is completely delusional.

If being a certain body shape was easy, everyone would already be that.

There's a reason the diet industry is worth billions, I'm not sure the exact statistic but over 95% of diets fail. Do people really believe that 95% of those people just aren't trying?!

downtheroad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119704017#Comment_119704017

Good diet, regular exercise. Such a world exists.

downtheroad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119704143#Comment_119704143

People choose to eat unhealthy food, and people choose not to exercise. Then said people wonder why they are obese.

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119706687#Comment_119706687

fat shaming actually isn't a narative but is a real thing, you just misunderstand what it is from going on your posts.

i admit i haven't saw this pandering you talk about, but what i have saw is most people just minding their own business on the issue because they know there are things being put in place to try and deal with it to help people that will work.

in fairness operation transformation is a tv program, tv programs will be designed around a particular narative, and will be designed in a way to get the most viewers and bring out particular reactions.

so while the individuals may cry at the drop of a hat and whatever else, it does not mean that is how they actually are in reality, but may (all though i can't know for sure given i'm not involved in the program or any program for that matter) be told to react in that way.

i certainly wouldn't use it as proof of anything.

billyhead

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119706743#Comment_119706743

Agree. It's not rocket science. Eat less and move more. Many people are just lazy. They prefer to drive instead of walking or cycling and eating take aways instead of cooking a nutritious healthy meal. I've no sympathy for obese people suffering health issues.

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119706731#Comment_119706731

the thing is, all of these things that are being blamed are actual reasons for the individuals who give those reasons.

because we don't have those issues ourselves does not mean others won't, ultimately we can't know or live someone else's life because we don't live it, we just live our own, so what can be done by us won't always be able to be done by someone else.

that's the point i am making.

maybe if the 4 day week becomes more of a norm along with flexi working and so on that might free up more time for people who don't have it currently.

i guess she is making the best decision for her currently, as while it may seem a bit strange to us, she may be best to make slow gradual changes that she is more likely to stick to and not have the baby, then making split second changes that she probably won't stick to as is apparently the norm when trying to lose weight?

i don't know ultimately but i imagine she knows what she is doing and why even if it may be odd or whatever to us.

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119706740#Comment_119706740

like anything in life, it works for some or even most, but not for others unfortunately regardless of how much they try.

that's just reality.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119706595#Comment_119706595

Can't see what's wrong with a triage system as regards these matters. You have a chronic smoking, drinking, obesity problem - then wait. Standard enough procedure for treating patients in other areas.

KilOit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119702539#Comment_119702539

Kinda the sort of excuse you'd hear from a fat, lazy person. The ground you walk on can also be used to exercise like pushups, situps

Relax brah

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119706704#Comment_119706704

1. No one mentioned banning food
2. That could/should be assessed by a professional
3. Obesity causes mental health issues, ever feel depressed after a walk, run or gym session? Doubt it
4. WHY? It’s costing the tax payers money as overweight individuals are more susceptible to illness
5. Again, no one said you should - but there should be a premium associated to it in order to encourage people to think twice before abusing there bodies and laying the burden on tax payers

babyducklings1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119702911#Comment_119702911

Yes totally agree stacks of junk and crisps etc on full display in all the supermarkets, catch the parents off guard with the kids whinging for this and that and the parents gives in. The halloween sweets filling up the shelves now a pure junk fest. Treats are fine but when you look around unfortunately you see some kids who are very over weight. Seems this obesity problem not just limited to Ireland though but right across Europe.

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/health/ireland-among-most-obese-nations-in-europe-as-who-says-condition-has-reached-epidemic-proportions-41611533.html

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119706835#Comment_119706835

because it doesn't pass a bcr, doesn't bring any benefits and everyone would be at the back of the queue in the end when more groups are added to the list because there will be just as good an argument to add them all.

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119706862#Comment_119706862

everything costs the tax payer so that is not an argument for anything, especially a tax that is of high expensivity and resource intencity to collect.

a premium associated to it won't encourage anyone to think twice about anything so would be costing the tax payer multiples for no yield, hence why as i said it wouldn't pass a BCR.

Greyfox

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119706731#Comment_119706731

In the real world losing weight is hard, it requires discipline and patience. Losing 3 or 4 stone would be an achievement but to lose 14 stone would be very very difficult. Some people underestimate how emotionally attached to food some people are.

Pissy Missy

Just out of interest, are any of you on here overweight or obese?

xxxxxxl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119705817#Comment_119705817

I think their trying to tie in medication that causes weight gain in some cases then linking that to the mental health problem. In my home country fat people were very rare and fat class mates got an awful time. only usually 1 in the school. Fat was never really a thing I used to see. The problem you have is all these body positive types. blaming everything on everything else instead of eat less move more. In this day and age our sedentary lifestyle is the major contributor. Yes some people will be fat but nowhere near what it is now going on historical remembering's.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119706848#Comment_119706848

..

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119706743#Comment_119706743

You can exercise and still be obese. You can never exercise and never be obese. You can eat unhealthy food and not be obese. You can over eat healthy food.

This is all simple stuff and yet people don't get it. That's the wonder.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119706862#Comment_119706862

No one who ever did exercise gets depressed. That's a new one. All those famous sports people with issues. What's that all about then.

Would this be professional mirror, instead of the ordinary mirror mentioned earlier.

What you seem to be suggesting is a fitness test on entry to A&E to see if you are fit enough to be treated. If you are too lazy to get off the trolly and do some pushups then you're a goner. If you're super fit you get priority treatment. If the mirror agrees of course. Basically profiling people. Nice.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119706687#Comment_119706687

1970s eh...

"...Between 1970 and 2021, life expectancy at birth increased from just over 77 years to nearly 85 years for women and from just over 72 years to over 81 years for men..."

Will you be revisiting the 1950 with these rose tinted glasses?

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119706948#Comment_119706948

That's largely going to depend where you moved from and to. The social economic and cultural differences between those places.

xxxxxxl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119707142#Comment_119707142

I think if you take it as a whole the Eu has not been obese in the past. Not really a social or economic thing. There is no culture that promotes obesity outside of what African tribes that see it as a sign of wealth ? on living longer that's mainly due to medical technology not people being fat or thin. Also a more educated population too. a lot of death is the past that you link to our survival rates would be due to little of no health and safety in the workplace or appliances and tech having a quality assurance. There is no other reason for the rise of so many people being obese accept diet and not moving. There was a documentary i watch on a uk channel trying to link processed food to rewiring your brain to eat it more. Big on claims but no real evidence.

downtheroad

Some amount of excuses in here. One poster blaming Dunnes Stores for selling tubs of sweets. Others blaming school curriculum for not teaching about cooking or nutrition.

Typical lack of personal responsibility.

I'm in the US at the moment and the size of a large proportion of people over here is disgraceful. They can blame supermarkets, government etc all they want but at the end of the day the vast majority of the obese and morbidly obese are eating crap and not exercising. There may be a small percentage who medically have reasons for their size, but the majority just don't want to address it. And Ireland is quickly following the US down a dangerous path.

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119706687#Comment_119706687

Well of course I have myopic vision, I still have one good eye though, and it doesn’t affect my ability to read, nor does it affect my ability to know that I shouldn’t depend upon nothing more than my own perception when referring to obesity in a national context. I gave you the statistics earlier from the CSO. I never argued about an increase or decrease in obesity among the population, nor would I bother my arse relying on YouTube or whatever else to suggest obesity has increased among the population. I know it has because I can see trends in actual data, not just “I see fat people” nonsense.

You say your goal isn’t to make people miserable, but that’s exactly what you’d be doing with your trying to humiliate people rather than help people who actually want help. I don’t want nor need your help or support, but I understand that there are people who are so desperate they’ll try anything, like going on national tv on a programme where the aim is not to help people, but to exploit them for profit. Pretty similar to what you’re doing by having them reveal as much skin as possible wearing shorts a couple of sizes too small and being humiliated by a panel of people who should know better, all for the purposes of entertainment. They provide short-term solutions to a long-term issue.

That’s why the show has been criticised by experts who actually treat with people with eating disorders, not because they’re namby pamby or any of the rest of it, but because the show does nothing to address the issues it claims to be addressing, sort of like your proposals would do nothing for anyone, only yourself -

The Eating Disorder Association of Ireland, Bodywhys, earlier criticised the series for what it says was the considerable emphasis on dieting, body weight and shape and how each is measured, collectively counted and presented.

Bodywhys contacted Operation Transformation producers requesting that they consider “a more inclusive approach, signpost to support services and add disclaimers around the content” in an effort to avoid creating “a community sanctioned dieting culture that research shows does little to achieve long-lasting weight loss or health promotion”.

https://www.thejournal.ie/operation-transformation-healthy-ireland-department-of-health-5648421-Jan2022/

It absolutely IS inspiration porn to be suggesting anyone who’s obese should be made to do tours of hospitals and rehabilitation facilities to eyeball people with disabilities or recovering from operations or any of the rest of it. Voyeuristic nonsense is all that is. It doesn’t do anything to address obesity in Irish society which is a far more complex issue than your simplistic approach based upon your own ideas of what should work, but if you want to focus on the past, has clearly been demonstrated and proven by research, doesn’t work.

There are a couple of reasons why historically it appears there weren’t as many fat people in society as there are now - the main reason being that people weren’t as obsessed then as they are now with health, fitness, diet and lifestyle, being fat was perceived as a sign of wealth, that they didn’t have to engage in manual labour to make a living, that people who were fat didn’t die of a number of other causes which people who endured manual labour were dying of - starvation and poverty being the underlying causes of many health conditions. Ordinary people and people who were socioeconomically deprived in particular were more susceptible to diseases and ill health because of their living and working conditions, and being fat was associated with being upper class, beauty, something to aspire to, not something to be shunned. It’s celebrated in art throughout history, You’d know this if you’d even the slightest interest in tackling obesity issues instead of substituting your own narrative for reality -

A perception of generous proportions as indication of health, beauty, and vitality continued until second half of the 20th century, when scientists discovered saturated fats, trans-fats, and their relationship with metabolic and cardiovascular diseases. Something profound changed. A well-rounded body was no longer a symbol of good health and gushing beauty. On the contrary, artists began to use the image of a massive body to symbolize conflict between the individual and society. Obesity became synonymous with frustration, poverty, stress, and unhappiness. The media began to celebrate images of thin almost malnourished women and men with unrealistically sculptured physiques. Fat became ugly and thin became beautiful. In art, the naked body is depicted more frequently than ever. Curves are no longer a celebration of the human shape, but rather a symbol of the many contradictions in society; humanity detached from nature; over consumption of artificial food. Indeed, nowadays, the women portrayed by Rubens and Renoir would be considered fat and even ugly.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3131175/

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119704794#Comment_119704794

a doctor is required to diagnose a person with a medical condition..also are people are just going to send in photos of themselves ?

obesity is a medical condition, therefore it needs to be formally diagnosed in a medical setting by a medical practitioner….

the only way of dong it is via a medical practitioner calculating BMI and doing other investigations.. both getting to the bottom of the condition and root cause…

• Thyroid function tests.
• liver function tests.
• Blood tests to examine glucose levels.

Many people with arthritis become very overweight as exercise becomes more difficult as the disease, pain and inflammation progresses.

Many people with sleep disorders become very overweight as they don’t get enough rest to want to exercise.. when I was having sleep issues over a number of years my weight went up.

an old friends Dad, drinks, smokes, eats like a horse and has the physical build of Mr. Bean…yet an Uncle of mine, 35 years a golf pro, out 5/6 days a week and only has to look at a slice of cake and there is another few kilos added.

so obesity tax ? Nope, I’d advocate 20 fags being 40 euros before I’d go that route..

xxxxxxl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119707186#Comment_119707186

Oh I get your point Strumms. But I moved to Ireland over 30 years ago. Obese people were easy to spot I have noticed over time they are becoming the norm. That cant be due to everyone having some kind of underlying health issue. It's just not possible. There will always be those pre disposed or illness that will cause it but were on American levels now. IIRC Ireland is the most Obese country in the EU. Size 16 for women is not normal. that's the average now. It goes hand in hand with Ireland being the largest consumer of chocolate and having it's own actual fizzy drinks plants.

Mr. teddywinkles

Will you be taxed per pound or kg op. Brought in for a regular weigh in like a calf to acess your tax liability.

What happens when ya lose 49 pounds on that new fad diet in 2 weeks. Will I be owed tax back.

Sounds great. Sign me up.

messrs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119702513#Comment_119702513

So what about people with cancer - going through Chemotherapy and pumped full of steroids. Gaining lots of weight because of this and unable to exercise to loose the weight due to extreme lack of physical energy - should they too be taxed for being obese?