Should there be an obesity tax?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119849041#Comment_119849041

Thanks for telling us you're ignorant. You think people have free will to make micro choices, not all do. Your hypothesis comes from a place of privilege. Plus, Not my fault that Boards are slow to act on account deletion requests. Report me to speed up the process.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119849141#Comment_119849141

With friends like this who needs enemies. "She snorkels the wine" Judgy Judy. Fu*k Me!

@Boards.ie: Niamh

Hey @Boards.ie: Niamh I emailed a deletion request and these mens are angry this fatso is still here to challenge their ignorance, can you delete my account so the pricks can get back to their hate circle jerk thanks. It's what makes them happy.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119849180#Comment_119849180

And you are back to shouting words like "ignorant". Above you requested someone "debate" you. Yet when I engage in conversation with you on good faith you merely shout "ignorant" and run away without rebutting a single thing I said. This is very telling. You then go on to complain about "hate" which is just getting shrill at this point. There is absolutely zero hateful in anything I wrote. Quite the opposite.

Your comment about free will to make micro choices is unclear what you mean here. First we can be cautious with the phrase "free will" as many people - myself included - doubt it even exists in the way people generally mean it. However that aside - it sounds like again you are appealing to minority exceptions? Maybe you can clarify what you refer to so I can be sure.

If someone has an issue that impinges on their ability to make such choices then once again I have to repeat what I already wrote. We can have a conversation about such people - and empathy for such people - without in any way impinging on the other conversation. In fact if all your exceptions and appeals to minorities added up to a whopping 45% - we can still have the same conversation about the other 55% at the same time. A conversation that for whatever reason - appears to really bother you.

The impression I am getting from what you write - when stripping away the bile, insults, invective and shrillness to see what substance is left - is that you seem to think the exceptions negate the conversation. This is not a position I share. I see them as separate and equally useful conversations for society to have.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119849141#Comment_119849141

It can be very hard to come to conclusions as to what is affecting someones body weight. Firstly they could be eating things that you do not know about. Or they could have underlying hormonal or medical issues you (or even they themselves) do not know about.

But all kinds of things you might not think of can affect weight. For example if you got two identical twins with identical diets and put them in identical houses - but one house had air conditioning that perfectly regulated the temperature 24/7/365 - but the other house had a log fire - you might find the former twin ends up heavier. Why? Well it was suggested in the US Journal of Obesity that as warm blooded animals a significant % of our calories are used in temperature regulation. So if we out source that temperature regulation those calories are not used up.

Eating less and moving more is certainly a useful first step in combating weight. But we should never lose sight of the fact that body weight and shape is the result of quite a number of inputs and environmental variables.

Certainly though - as you say - alcohol is quite calorie heavy.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119849259#Comment_119849259

Who are you that you think you have any right to have a conversation about "those people"? You are engaging in bad faith arguments that's why I'm mocking you and not engaging with you, you are ignorant pretending to be intelligent and caring. Are you David Quinn? You are as transparent as cling film. Try harder.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119849331#Comment_119849331

If there is a problem with an argument I have presented then by all means rebut it rather than vaguely suggesting they are there. The fact you can not and will not is itself telling. The fact invective and insults is all you can and have presented is too.

As for who am I to have such a conversation? Who am I not to? I am a member of a society and I have every right to my knowledge - morally and legally - to discuss issues endemic to that society. That you can not muster a response to anything I said is not my failing.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119849364#Comment_119849364

This is the problem with society is people like you think you can punch down on people with obesity, trans people, migrants whatever will make you feel better about yourself. Anyone can talk about anything but as a society we really have to call out ignorance and hatred.

And yet there is no hatred or punching down in anything I wrote and the only person throwing outright personal insults and invective has been you. It is there in black and white for all to see therefore which one of us has been posting with anger and hate.

If I said something that is ignorant or wrong you have consistently refused to highlight it and rebut it. Until you can engage in the conversation in good faith then I am unsure how to progress the conversation with you. The ignorant will always remain ignorant until you show them where they are ignorant. Education is not made up of people shouting that you know nothing.

If you at any point decide to engage in good faith in the debate that you yourself asked for in a previous post - I am here for you.

cezanne

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119849391#Comment_119849391

Are you obese as you seem very defensive and bringing migrants and trans folk into an obesity tax conversation is very telling about who you are! Is your hair dyed blue by any chance and do you wear enormous dungarees ! people like you are the reason there are divides you want everyone to agree with you and if we dont we are racist, obeseist, trans -ist whatever you and your ilk are destroying modern discourse with your hysteria.

Brid Hegarty

Ireland is now the first in Europe to declare obesity as a disease due to the HSEs recent decision.

I heard Prof Donal O'Shea (the HSE's national clinical lead for obesity) on the Matt Cooper show the other day. He says that only 5-10 % of over-weight/obese people actually have the ability to lose the weight by changing their lifestyle AND keep it off. For the other 90% or more, the genetic compensation element within their body will do everything it can to bring their weight back up. Could it really be 5-10 percent!? It's funny because any time you do see a fat person they will always be carrying that coke can or whatever... so it's hard not to think it's not their own fault.

He was basically saying that we need to get away from this "eat less, move more" idea, and was very strong about it. He made the comparison to smoking, by asking "would you tell someone with lung cancer that they need to stop smoking as their treatment?".

He said that in their in-patient program they put obese people a highly restricted energy in-take combined with physical activity, and they don't lose weight. A lot of people texting into the show disagreed with him. He was asked "then why are there more obese people now than before?" and he said it's because the food and physical environment has changed so much over the last 40 years. He went to say that the people with such a predisposition who weigh about 25 stone, would weight about 17 stone if it were the 1970s.

I can't really say I disagree with him, but there was little talk about the actual treatment, apart from a quick mention of a few diabetes drugs. Apparently there'll be loads of new better drugs on the market within a year or two that won't have as much side effects. It's interesting that there was no talk about the gut microbiome in this segment, which I've no doubt has had an effect on obesity due to the over prescribing of antibiotics.

I am not sure I would recommend "moving away from" the "eat less move more" mantra. My constant message throughout the thread is that this mantra should be part of a holistic and wider range of measures and methods and life changes.

To use your own analogy - no you would not tell someone with lung cancer that their treatment is to stop smoking. However you would very much tell them that as part of their overall treatment - stopping smoking will A) Help a lot and B) help ensure the other treatments and approaches are likely to be more successful.

However the "eat less" aspect of the mantra is somewhat misleading. With weight loss eating less is not actually the main goal. Or at least not the only goal. Changing your entire relationship with food and what and how you eat can often mean that you can eat more - or less or the same - and still lose weight.

Overall weight gain or loss is a complex and multi faceted and very individual journey. One that is more complicated than the "calories in calories out" or "eat less and move more" or "obesity is a personal choice" people allow for. But also one that is more complicated than the abusive user from the last page would want to admit to as they get uppity over any suggestion that personal choices and personal discipline are any part of the equation at all.

YFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119702372#Comment_119702372

Yeah look at out previous ministers of health. Haven't a clue who is the recent head the ball.

Relax brah

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119850464#Comment_119850464

Deleted user now. Probably was