Should there be an obesity tax?

Can't stand the way people pretend not just being overweight but obesity is not down to choices made, or might not be harmful.

It causes type 2 diabetes, it's linked to numerous cancers, it's harmful to your heart and all that goes with it, it's harmful to your joints, your kidneys, your liver, your bowel, your stomach... and I've gained weight due to too many takeaways during Covid. I know it's hard not to eat those tasty treats... but it's still a choice.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119705658#Comment_119705658

I simply asked how are you "bowed down", and really the only negative (for you) could come up with is you can't say any old guff that comes into your head.

SuperBowserWorld

I think if you are willfully not looking after your health and do not have a mental health issue or physical health issue that prevents you from maintaining a healthy weight and you are using health services and social welfare services ... because of weight related issues then you are stealing from the taxpayer.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119705676#Comment_119705676

people make excuses all the time. They say they've no time to cook healthy after a day at work? Buy an airfryer (and save yourself money on bills too), chop up onion, pepper, spuds, mushrooms , beetroot (and a few sausages if you're not vegetarian) ....brush with oil and throw in airfryer and cook for 15 mins max. Dinner! Its not rocket science. Have stewed apples, raisins, spices and natural yogurt for dessert. The above is a cheap healthy meal.

If obesity is a disease then why was nobody fat when I was a child? We were all thin as rakes, everyone was thin at school, we all ran, cycled, stayed outdoors all the time, we were as healthy as fleas. We ate every veg going, every bit of meat we were given, no choices. What is this "disease" of obesity?

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119704902#Comment_119704902

It is normally the people from lower socio-demographics that are overweight, because of lack of education on nutrition. So an obesity tax (tax sugar - alcohol - cigarettes) is an indirect tax on the poorer in society.

It’s not though, and I’ve already linked to the statistics in an Irish context -

While all classes of affluence / disadvantage indicate that around 55% of those groups report as being overweight or obese, the Very disadvantaged group report the highest levels of being overweight or obese at 58% of that group.

https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-syi/statisticalyearbookofireland2021part1/soc/health/

Who do you imagine is going to force anyone to do tours of hospitals or rehabilitation centres or any of the rest of your nonsense? Not you anyway, I’d just tell you to piss off with your nonsense.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119705658#Comment_119705658

Your ignorance around the topic of eating disorders is why people will take your ideas about as seriously as the OP with their obesity tax. Personal responsibility means being responsible for yourself, and if you can’t manage that much, find something else to do with yourself besides coming up with stupid ideas to live out your weird fantasies looking to humiliate other people.

There’s no new narrative, just better education around eating disorders, which is what you claim you want, when you’re not fantasising about humiliating people for your own entertainment, portraying it as being for their benefit. It’s clear from your posts you have no interest whatsoever in tackling obesity in Irish society, that for you it’s just pub talk 🙄

Ironically enough, alcohol consumption is one of the main causes of obesity among adults, and unsurprisingly, affluent persons consume greater amounts of alcohol than disadvantaged persons in Irish society -

Affluent persons report higher prevalence levels of alcohol consumption than disadvantaged persons, with 83% of Very affluent persons reporting that they drink alcohol compared to 71% of Very disadvantaged persons.

Alcohol consumption is highest in the 25-34 and 35-44 years age groups (84% of these age groups consuming alcohol), with the age group 75 years and over reporting the lowest levels of alcohol consumption (53%).

The introduction of minimum unit pricing was a step in the right direction in reducing obesity and alcohol related issues in Irish society. Certainly more effective than your hunger games nonsense or frog marching people around hospitals 🙄

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119705817#Comment_119705817

Diet was different though.

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2013/aug/07/fat-profits-food-industry-obesity

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2013/aug/07/fat-profits-food-industry-obesity

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119705820#Comment_119705820

Well have the current solutions worked? All it has done is got more tax in.

If you deal with the premise that obesity is a mental issue, a practical shock of looking at how people with actual physical disabilities/or xyz struggles still have drive to exercise get rehabilitation compared to the 'poor me' able bodied obese person who does not have the correct mindset or drive. Such people might not feel so self pitying afterwards.

Plus tax breaks could be given to those who are healthier and do not have health complications from obesity.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119705810#Comment_119705810

What if you do a dangerous sport and injury yourself causing you to be reliant on those same services. Is that not also willful.

Flinty997

Its tax breaks for not getting sick.

Or higher taxes for getting sick, mentally or physically, or injured.

In case people hadn't noticed the world already works like that, and is highly discriminatory. Being sick, already costs a load of money.

You're already living in the paradise you're wishing for. Just don't get sick. If you want even more of the same, move somewhere like the States.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119705894#Comment_119705894

I agree diet was different, we had less of a range of foods. But despite that I have maintained my own weight all my life, despite the array of foods everywhere, sugars, fats, fast foods, alcohol. I just know when to stop, when not to overeat, I know what is healthy to buy and to cook. If I feel clothes getting tighter, I cut back for a few days.

I'm just back from Dunnes and its like an assault course to make it to the checkout through the rows of strategically places tins of Roses and Quality Street..... 3 months before Christmas! Why are shops allowed do this?

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119705905#Comment_119705905

Current initiatives are working, the ones that don’t include your hunger games nonsense anyway. Eating disorders are far more complex than just being a mental health issue or the idea of just going vegan or buying cheap vegetables or any of the rest of it. Those are the kinds of ideas that make for entertaining tv and not much else. Nobody becomes obese overnight, they’re not going to become healthy overnight either, and the idea of just taxing people for not leading healthy lifestyles is just a non-starter.

Your imaginary shock treatment doesn’t work, and wouldn’t work, it’s why that sort of treatment isn’t used any more. Given obese people are more likely to be hospitalised or on medication anyway, the idea that they should take any notice of other people with disabilities is absurd, let alone the idea that they would feel the same way you do about inspiration porn. It’s you who’s projecting your own ‘poor me’ attitude onto other people who are just going about their business, minding their own business, and it’s offensive to you that they don’t feel shame and feel bad about themselves, which you imagine they should. It’s your attempts to humiliate people is what makes them feel like shyte about themselves.

You talk about the correct mindset and drive, without examining your own mindset first, or your drive to make other people miserable. That’s exactly why I’d be telling you to feck off, because I’m in a position to do so, whereas you’ll seek out the people who aren’t, which is why you suggested it was normally people from lower socioeconomic classes who are overweight, because of lack of education on nutrition. I’ve given you evidence from the CSO which refutes your claims, but it’s understandable why you’d target people who are socioeconomically deprived - they’re an easier target than people who have the ability to tell you to jog on.

SuperBowserWorld

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119705919#Comment_119705919

I'd say if you are doing a dangerous sport you'd probably need some kind of insurance and the benefits of the sport probably outweighs the risk to the person and the taxpayer.

Like the guy who rowed across the Atlantic recently. An inspiration. Hugely beneficial to himself, family, the country.

To get back to the original question which I didn't answer ...

I think most people are not willingly unhealthy. It's sheer exhaustion, mental health, physical health issues, age , dependencies, work, ... Reasons ...

... So an obesity tax won't help here. And a lot of things that are bad for you are taxed anyway.

Also, pushing people the other way has serious health issues associated with it to.

I'd be happy if people just take more responsibility for themselves and their community and realise certain paths take resources away from those who really need them.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119706041#Comment_119706041

Portion sizes have also increased. If we are going there. They've become more calorific too.

I can't say I've resisted the temptation of alcohol and its simply a matter of will power not to become an addicted to it. Because I've never really had a constant craving to drink. So I can have a few then walk away no problem. I wouldn't confuse that with will power.

Often I hear people I know for years claim they love sweet things, bad food and its constant battle to avoid them. Fact is they've never been that interested in all the years I've known them.

gameoverdude

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119702560#Comment_119702560

They obviously have issues. First ones to turn the heat on and first ones to complain about global warming. Bit of winter packaging I say.

As for vegans! Don't get me started. Would you trust someone who doest like real cheese. That's what I thought. NO!

All joking aside, no. Enough stuff is taxed to the hilt and more efficency is needed in our ps.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119706085#Comment_119706085

Well thats the same thing with dangerous activities. you're expecting the taxpayer and community to carry the can.

A lot of poor eating in the west is culturally and socially driven. (and commercially). So the question is as a society what do we want to do about that.

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119706085#Comment_119706085

I'd be happy if people just take more responsibility for themselves and their community and realise certain paths take resources away from those who really need them.

They don’t though, that’s what budgets are for, that funding is provided for all sorts of things and it’s not simply the case that funding one thing means taking funding from somewhere else. Bariatric surgery for example is available to medical card holders, but there’s a waiting list for it, and long-term recovery is dependent upon making a whole slew of lifestyle changes which means less risk of far more costly medical treatment in the future -

* Surgery is available to patients with medical cards. However, in October 300 public patients attending the weight-management programme at St Columcille's, Loughlinstown, Dublin, were waiting for bariatric surgery at St Vincent's, where just 27 procedures were performed last year.

* Patients who can pay, or who have health insurance, can be referred to a private provider by their GP.

* Successful surgery can reduce the cost of treating serious long-term health conditions. Mater Private Consultant bariatric surgeon John Coneely, who operated on Kevin, says, "Bariatric surgery has been shown to prevent, cure or improve a number of serious health conditions related to obesity, such as type 2 diabetes, high blood pressure, infertility, heart disease, asthma, sleep apnoea and certain cancers.

* "Within the first year of the procedure, most patients lose between 50pc and 60pc of their excess body weight, provided they follow the recommended dietary and lifestyle changes."

https://m.independent.ie/life/health-wellbeing/i-worried-my-weight-would-kill-me-dad-of-three-49-on-how-bariatric-surgery-helped-him-drop-five-stone-36371048.html

Flinty997

I wonder how many who complain about people not getting more exercise are willing to back that up with support for cycling infrastructure and less space for cars.

Furze99

Not sure about the practicality of an obesity tax. Maybe better to categorise those who are obese or heavy smokers and/or drinkers/ druggies etc. And put them to the back of any waiting lists for healthcare in public hospitals. Should be consequences for deliberately abusing your health and better for society to prioritise those who take some care for their health. Looked at baldly, more cost efficient too if those in these categories die younger as they cost a lot to keep in healthcare.

MakersMark

Why not prioritise tax payers over lazy deadbeats?

Too lazy to work?...get to the back of the queue .

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119706156#Comment_119706156

You mean the way professional sportsmen/woman have short careers through injury. They should be penalised for it.

Most of the people on this forum are well past their prime and far younger people than them will get priority on many treatments.

gameoverdude

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119706156#Comment_119706156

Look at booze/smokes. Heavily taxed.

Obesity, how do you measure that? Please don't say bmi, as I'd be obese.

Back of the waiting...I can kinda see where you're going, but I'd like to think a "nip it in the bud" kinda of approach would be better.

Mental health and parenting programmes/ education maybe a better and cheaper solution.

Addicts are addicts. Can't change them unless they want to change. It's also generational. So complex.

I have no solution, but tax isn't it unless it's put into the right places.

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058266043/should-there-be-an-obesity-tax

wouldn't pass a cost benefit/benefit cost ratio or a business case due to the failure of the sugar tax which while across the board, was in some way similar with a similar outcome hoped for which didn't materialise.

education from a young age and a bann on all of the crap being put in to or on to food is your only way out of that, the first is likely but the second not.

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119705810#Comment_119705810

you might think it, but you are factually incorrect.

stealing is taking something without permission/something you are not entitled to take.

if someone is using the health services and the relevant authorities have agreed they are entitled to wellfare, then that can't be stealing since the authorities have agreed they are entitled to wellfare if they are on it, and one is entitled to use the health system regardless of reasons.

stealing is also a criminal offence.

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119705817#Comment_119705817

unfortunately because you or i or someone else may have 15 minutes to cook it unfortunately does not mean others do as well.

some don't have time to cook and therefore it is a genuine reason for them, you can disagree but realistically only an individual can tell what their whatever is whatever.

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119705952#Comment_119705952

how would this be funded given it would probably cost a huge wack?

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119706156#Comment_119706156

the actual, workable consequences are already there.

 your consequences would breach international and human rights law and discrimination law for no benefit and increased costs over all due to the compensation payements that would be paid out to whoever or whatever for such breaches.

NSAman

Big Problem define Obesity?

Anyone with BMI over 30?

I'm not making excuses but some people are built differently. Ok I am a fat sod now. (yet I am doing something about it)

I'm 6foot plus.... I didnt exercise for about 2 years in COVID and piled the weight on... so much so that I was a 42" waist. Yet, me being me, getting back into the healthy swing of exercise and healthy eating again... which I have done for most of my life... I'm still going to be a big lad. Even after starvation (3 months in a refugee camp) I was still 36" waist and weighing in at 16 stone. BMI was just about 28. I am a 54" chest at my largest size and my smallest ever has been 48" chest. So no matter what measure and how much exercise eating cleanly I am never going to be a slim jim... ever!

It still doesn't excuse me for eating less healthily over the past two years (luckily I have changed that and dropped 30lbs in the past 2 months).

Eating healthily is cheaper than the crap you buy that is processed and sugared. Yes it takes time to get used to but is actually quicker to cook and of course much less calories. However, it takes thinking and a mindset to cook it and plan for it.

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119706169#Comment_119706169

because the country has better things to do then prioritise people who think they are entitled.

we pay tax to contribute to services, but the knowledge that we are contributing to those services is all we are and will be entitled to.

Annasopra

We have one already. Sugar tax.

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119706075#Comment_119706075

I think you have one eyed myopia there jack. Even looking on the street the amount of obese people have increased. Look up Dublin 1970's on you tube and look at the difference!

My goal is not to make people miserable, instead it is to stop this namby pamby mindset. Which seems to be prevailing mindset these days.

Instead you drive on, over come, adapt. What do obese people do? They make themselves miserable. They are pandered to, with the like likes of this 'fat shaming' narratives that are recent modern inventions.

They need spark drive, look at the likes of the crowd that go on operation transformation. Tears at the drop of a hat, feeling sorry for themselves, miserable gits. They have to be praised pushed cajoled by presenters, the programmes play up to a 'sob story' background.

Shock value is the right way to do it after medical advice is ignored time after time. Other approaches should be taken. IMO. It is not inspiration porn it is the reality of life.