Opting out of Smart Meter Program

daheff

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119704838#Comment_119704838

Yup. But people want to put it off as long as possible.

Some hope that things might change and not end up costing them more.

Glaceon

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119706017#Comment_119706017

I saw one yesterday in our estate. A new build with smart meters pre-installed. Made me wonder if someone managed to get theirs removed.

Alun

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119707483#Comment_119707483

Maybe they were reading gas meters?

EDIT: Sorry , saw it was a new build estate so no gas?

Glaceon

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119707509#Comment_119707509

Yep, no gas here.

sportsfan90

Hi All, I went to check the meter in my parents house and it seems there's a smart meter installed since I last looked.

They're not aware if they've signed up for the smart tariff or not. Is there an easy way to find out?

pjordan

Afraid there's some misinformation and divergent views on this thread. It would be great if we could get verified answers for some questions posed here instead of personal hunches or speculation such as:

1. Are Smart meters installations inevitable on all properties?
2. Can one effectively refuse to have a smart meter installed and what are the possible future implications of this?
3. Can a smart meter accomodate a day night tarriff rate? If not how do those with Night storage heaters manage with a Smart meter?
4. Are the only differing rates on Smart meter tarrifs currently available higher tarrifs between 5-7pm and somewhat lower rates between 2and 6 am and some no charge Saturday options?
5. Are Smart tarrifs generally higher than existing 24 hr tarrifs and considerably higher than day night tarrifs?
6. Is the 2G connectivety of Smart meters a genuine hacking/security concern or just paranoia? Are there any documented cases of hacking?
7. Can those without a smart meter avail of a FIT if PV panels installed?
8. Can owners of an EV avail of special night time charging tarrifs through a Smart meter?
9. Are the energy companies eventually likely to start providing more divergent and varied smart meter tarrifs within a more competitive market as the regulator suggests will happen?

As I say, it would be great if we could get definitive answers for these questions rather than differing views and personal speculation

Gooser14

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119707527#Comment_119707527

If they have received a bill since installation of the SM then they can check the MCC code. If it is showing MCC01 then they are a 24 hr rate. Other than that I would suggest they call their supplier.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119707527#Comment_119707527

By registering them for an online account with their supplier?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119707724#Comment_119707724

If the Energy Regulator was doing their job then you could simply email that list to them and ask them for a definitive answer to each point. Them cc it to your favourite TD and ask them to send the same list of questions to Eamon "the human bicycle" Ryan, Minister for Handwringing and Opposing Nuclear Energy and Gas Storage.

KCross

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119707527#Comment_119707527

They wouldn't be on a smart tariff unless they agreed to it. The default is that you are on a 24hr tariff and they swap the meter and you stay on that tariff. If they got any phone call from their provider and they were offered a smart tariff and they agreed to it then they could have switched via that phone call.... as another has said, look at the latest bill to be sure.

KCross

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119707724#Comment_119707724

It would be great if we could get verified answers for some questions posed here instead of personal hunches or speculation

Its an internet forum so if you want definitive answers you need to talk to the regulator but I'm not sure you'd get good answers there either.... I'll take a crack at your questions though as they are good ones!

Are Smart meters installations inevitable on all properties?

That's a tough one. Over a long time period, probably yes.

Can one effectively refuse to have a smart meter installed and what are the possible future implications of this?

You can refuse. It will exclude you from receiving FiT payments unless you move to a day/night tariff. Any other possible future implications are just speculation! ;)

Can a smart meter accomodate a day night tarriff rate? If not how do those with Night storage heaters manage with a Smart meter?

Technically they could. The meter itself takes readings every 30mins and sends it back to the mother ship for processing. The providers process that data and provide smart tariffs (which include a day, night and peak element) based off that data but those tariffs for some reason are not as competitive as the long standing basic day/night tariffs.

I presume those on night storage heaters are using d/n meters and are not being switched to smart meters right now.

Are the only differing rates on Smart meter tarrifs currently available higher tarrifs between 5-7pm and somewhat lower rates between 2and 6 am and some no charge Saturday options?

Smart tariffs seem to have day, night and peak(5-7pm) and then some providers also offer some free periods at weekends like you say. You have to read the fine print of each provider to see what is being offered.

Are Smart tarrifs generally higher than existing 24 hr tarrifs and considerably higher than day night tarrifs?

If you are on a 24hr tariff with an old meter you should see no change when you move to a smart meter AS LONG AS you stay on a 24hr tariff. If you switch to a smart tariff you are likely to see a higher bill.

Is the 2G connectivety of Smart meters a genuine hacking/security concern or just paranoia? Are there any documented cases of hacking?

I haven't heard of any hacking.

Can those without a smart meter avail of a FIT if PV panels installed?

Yes. Use a day/night meter and get what they call "deemed export". Its a calculated figure based on your inverter capacity, rather than a measured figure.

Can owners of an EV avail of special night time charging tarrifs through a Smart meter?

Yes but you have to weigh that against the terrible rates for the rest of the day. Some providers for instance provide a reduced rate for 2hrs. 2hrs isn't much if they are screwing you for the other 22hrs! ;)

Are the energy companies eventually likely to start providing more divergent and varied smart meter tarrifs within a more competitive market as the regulator suggests will happen?

You're asking for speculation there! ;)

Who knows, the regulator is asleep at the wheel at the moment in terms of these smart meters. The taxpayer is paying €1b+ (yes a billion) to have these deployed and they are not currently being used as designed and they wont be until people see some value.

cobham

Just got solar here with battery and Eddi and we still have old meter. For the moment 'excess' to the grid is acknowledged by the meter going in reverse😀I realise eventually we will have to have a smart meter installed but for the moment a day/night rate would make sense as the battery is running the house in the evening and 'out' by morning also on winter's days, it would be nice to top up the hotwater with a night rate for the following day. So how do day/night rates work with old meter? will they allow it? does work need to be done at the meterboard?

slave1

You are WAY better off with reversing meter, as long as you are exporting a reasonable amount that is

D/N is a replacement meter for your old one, 10minute ESB networks job, no cost

cobham

Right so a 'new' D/N meter might not be a smart meter but would no doubt have no reverse gear. For some reason we got left out when neighbours had smart meters done .... So can the smartmeter have a D/N option without going on one of their 'smart' (not so!) plans?

d/N

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119717339#Comment_119717339

No

homer911

Interesting article on RTE.ie today about getting the most from your smart meter

https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2022/1008/1327833-smart-meter-energy/

There has also been some discussion about incentivising people to reduce their power consumption during peak times - I dont know if that means shoving up the peak time rate, but there was some coverage in the examiner about giving people vouchers..

con747

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119716943#Comment_119716943

Make sure to add a couple of units to every meter reading when submitting them or it will be a nightmare trying to explain it to your supplier, I add 2 units per billing period on mine to keep above previous reading.

Gooser14

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119716943#Comment_119716943

The old mechanical D/N meters had two sets of reading (unlike the 24 hr meter which has one set of readings) marked day & night. It had a clock separate to the meter & the clock determined when the day or night usage was recorded.

Gadgetman496

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120700981#Comment_120700981

If you mean if there's any good reason to refuse the new meter installation, then I would suggest that there is no good reason not to have it installed.

Once installed and you decide not to sign up to a smart plan, the only change will be that your meter will automatically read remotely, meaning you will never get an estimated bill again, that's a positive thing and nothing else will change.

Everyone will eventually have to install the new meter anyway for a couple of reasons.

The old meters are going to reach end of life and you will have no choice but to change.

Even if you refuse at that stage, it's possibly going to have house insurance implications as it will more than likely be deemed to be a potential fire hazard and insurance companies could deny claims based on that should a claim arise.

It wouldn't surprise me if they impose an installation charge down the line for those who refused this current offer.

I had the new meter installed but did not sign up to a smart plan and all is fine

buzz11

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120700981#Comment_120700981

Dont take it, there are mentions on other threads of people unknowingly getting a smart meter tariff and then they can't go back.

Until the suppliers offer better smart tarifs then its best to refuse

walterking

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120700981#Comment_120700981

None whatsoever and if you are with electric Ireland, the rates are identical.

The information you can get from the analytics can save you a packet of you are willing to change things - 45m quick wash, less tumble dry, eco settings on dishwasher, cooker usage, electric shower usage.

My bills are currently €130-150 a month, up from €90-100, but with unit price more than double, the usage has dropped about 30%

con747

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120701077#Comment_120701077

What about the fact once you go on a smart plan you are stuck on a smart plan forever? That might not suit everybody right now. Yes, we all will eventually be on one unless it is not possible for certain reasons but I would be doing my homework on usage and tariffs before changing. Cheap night rates on them don't suit all. If you have solar panels that needs to be took into the equation as most on these threads have.

Analytics on them can be useful but you can do that without having a smart meter so that would not be a reason to get one. I wouldn't tell someone to just get one because it works for some people. If you have a day/night meter you can do all your washing drying and other automated stuff on a cheap night rate as is. I doubt many would be showering or cooking at that time of night.

I also had the letter from ESBN about changing my 24hr meter a couple of months ago and when the contractor rang to do it I explained to them that it was better financially for me to stay on the meter I have and they put me at the back of the queue for installation and will see if they can extend it longer if possible without me refusing a meter which would mean I would not get the FIT. So it does not suit all.

touchdown77

@Gadgetman496 Even if you refuse at that stage, it's possibly going to have house insurance implications as it will more than likely be deemed to be a potential fire hazard and insurance companies could deny claims based on that should a claim arise.

Can you provide any evidence to backup your statement?

con747

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120702839#Comment_120702839

It's in the CRU guidelines. If you refuse a smart meter you will be ineligible for FIT payments with certain type meters unless they cannot install a smart meter for whatever reason. I'll try find the link.

con747

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120702916#Comment_120702916

They will, depending on if you are eligible for a smart meter but refuse one. They won't pay deemed FIT if you do. I have an old 24hr meter and have put off but not refused a smart meter for that reason. I can't find the CRU link where it states the guidelines but maybe other members have it to hand.

Here's an example from Bord Gais T&C's "If you have refused a smart meter installation as offered by ESB Networks then you will be ineligible for a Deemed Export Quantity arrangement from ESB Networks." https://assets-us-01.kc-usercontent.com/7dd6b71d-d672-0004-6a4d-7043e1d0db33/b73f2410-5674-437e-a310-0e010908e7d4/BGERESMGTC0323%20V1%20LR.pdf

I think most suppliers have the same T&C's but not 100% on that so check your supplier. Bottom line is don't refuse a smart meter but if you don't want one try postpone it until you have no option if that's what is best for your circumstances.

graememk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120703036#Comment_120703036

Are you getting the deemed fit?

Some here that are on 24 meters aren't, told they need a smart meter.

(DN still getting the deemed fit)

con747

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120703229#Comment_120703229

Me, no. I have the old backwards meter so I will have a situation where I either eventually accept a smart meter or end up being ineligible for deemed FIT due to refusal. I have postponed with the contractor ESBN have doing them and they were very understanding about the fact it's more beneficial financially for me to have the old meter and put me at the end of the list. Just trying to let the above poster know the refusal of one means no deemed FIT with some if not all suppliers. I don't know if switching would entitle you to it with a new supplier, I thought some here said they done that but not sure.

DC999

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120703229#Comment_120703229

CRU confirmed to me by email 2 months ago that I am not entitled to FIT while on a 24hr meter. I contacted them as Energia said EBN informed them I was not eligible. Then ESB said contact CRU who define the FIT eligibility criteria.

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120703229#Comment_120703229

Apparently there's no more deemed FIT for MCC01 as networks have made the decision that anyone who wants a smart meter by now has one. To get deemed fit you have to be on MCC02 day night.

DC999

Correct, that's what CRU confirmed to me for MCC01, 24 Hour meter. Opting out of Smart Meter Program - Page 5 — boards.ie - Now Ye're Talkin'