Opting out of Smart Meter Program

Flinty997

My point was I don't run these things same time every night. I may not run them every day. There are some days I run them multiple times, because I'm off and there a sudden demand.

Gadgetman496

According to this article, "once you switch to a smart tariff you are precluded from ever switching back to the older tariff system."

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2022/0929/1326262-smart-meters/

Flinty997

That's an interesting quote...

"Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid."

slave1

This is a renewable forum so we cannot separate "wasteful" use of energy without looking at the renewable side.

Night electricity is majority renewable (wind) so it is less "wasteful" to heat hot water at night and knowingly lose some of that heat during the day versus high energy usage on demand with electric shower during the day (unless of course the electric shower is used at say 1AM)

Glaceon

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119678483#Comment_119678483

Yes, it's tied to the meter rather than the account holder. If a previous tenant or owner went with a smart plan, you can't choose a standard one. In my case I moved into a new build house but the builders went with a smart tariff during its construction.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119705042#Comment_119705042

Unless you have a shower 365 days a year then you are heating water when you don't need it.

Consider a fridge doesn't use that much but if it is on 24/7/365 then it becomes significant. If you are heating the water every night then thats what you are doing.

Of course the only way to know for sure if measure your usage and measure the difference.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119705062#Comment_119705062

I would assume the power shower is going to use a lot more water. More water that needs to be heated.

waterwelly

I presume at some point smart meters and smart plans will become compulsory?

Anybody know when this is likely?

Flinty997

With the smart meter I'm assume there will be less need for people (from the energy company) to actually check the meter. So that probably a huge cost saving for them right there. A good reason to charge extra for people who don't switch. It will be like paperless billing.

yankinlk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119705131#Comment_119705131

One shower a day? What about sports and exercise. Some people have more than 1 a day!

A lot of arguments on this thread about it being impossible to load shift. It really isn't that difficult. Yes I have solar panels and a battery, but if I didn't I would focus on using night rates.

I feel bad for folks that didn't jump into solar when it was cheaper, and for those that didn't go for a day night meter when they could... but coming to this forum to tell those of us that DID load shift and save money it's not working or not worth it.... please jog on.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119705174#Comment_119705174

I'm just wondering how running something more often can use less energy then running it less often.

Simple question.

Cost is a seperate issue as the tariffs and standing charges demonstrate.

I don't get your point about the sports. Unless you have washers, dryers and showers all synchronized with your sports schedule. I know our sports schedule changes weekly if not daily.

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119705148#Comment_119705148

Absolutely no indication that this is the case beyond idle speculation

bullit_dodger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119705174#Comment_119705174

Fair point yankinlk - although it's still "cheap" when you do the math. Sure it's not as lucrative as it was 12 months ago, but if I had to fork out money today for it I'd do the same as last year.

To be balanced though, yes....in theory if you don't have a shower on a specific day then you would be wasting electricity with the immersion having heated it up to temp only to not use it.....but how often does that happen in reality? I know I pretty much have a shower every day, and if you had a couple of kids in the gaff I can't see the water energy not being used. Yeah, I'm sure there are edge cases out there, but for the vast majority if they sat down and "honestly and accurately" appraised their usage profile, I'm sure they could move stuff to better times without inconveniencing themselves.....and even save a few quid in the process. The problem isn't so much smart meters, it's the smart meter tariffs compared to the DN tariffs.

Note: Just because you move your dish washer most nights doesn't stop you from running it during the day of course. It's not a binary option.

yankinlk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119705210#Comment_119705210

You have lost me. I read all you past posts and they all (and others) seem to indcate its impossible to move 70% of devices to night rate. Funny that I have done so - and many others. YMMV

All our showers are in the morning - using water heated off night rate. Evening showers form sports have options from using solar heated water OR (hopefully) short electric showers. Kids eh.

I am not running anything more often - i dont get your point at all there? a wash is a wash, a dry is a dry - i just run them off timers for night rate or after hours (or when the sun is shining for free).

Cost is the very issue of the Smart Tariff thread. People are opting out becuase they cost more money andhave higher tariffs... but even they have cheaper rates at night right?

Gerry

I'm on the phone to energia currently - trying to see if I Can move to day/night tariff, and this would involve replacing my smart meter with a day/night meter.

They seem to be saying that they might do this if I was already an energia customer - I'm not. Could anyone here confirm if they've moved to d/n on energia, from smart meter on a different provider?

Flinty997

Its more about the how much water they use, than the number of showers. As they might have a 1 min shower or a 10 min shower.

According to the data, an eight-minute shower used 62 litres of hot water, compared with an average bath's 80 litres.

And, it suggested, that if people were using a power shower - an appliance that adds extra pressure to the water flow - then an eight-minute shower would require twice as much water and energy as a bath.

Then the energy used to heat that water. Then secondary the cost. Though some might feel the cost is the primary issue.

Gerry

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119705297#Comment_119705297

Got through to someone a bit more knowledgeable. They are cagey but say it can be done, up to esb, and may incur a charge up to 180 odd quid. I can see it going better if I was an existing customer.

bullit_dodger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119705301#Comment_119705301

But isn't that the whole point of smart meters, fiscally penalizing people for running appliances during those peak hours? Effectively giving them an incentive to move loads to other hours. Sure, not everyone can do that.....but if 25% of people moved the washing machine or the dish washer to another (non-peak) hr that could flatten the overall country wide need for power a percentage point or two. Meaning that less "dirty" generation is producing on the grid and we all win.

I agree, heating only the water that you use is the best way (from an energy conservation viewpoint). Not everything is black and white though. I like an open fire, even though it's terrible in terms of fosil fuel wastage as most of the heat goes up the chimney, but it's nice to have a fire on at christmas etc.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119705267#Comment_119705267

Not at all. I'm just interested in others peoples experiences.

Full house here and busy. But we don't all have sports at the same time, or do the washing (or drying) on a fixed schedule that suits a timer all that well. But I have no doubt it works well for others, or the majority as you suggest.

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119705405#Comment_119705405

Yes it could flatten the curve.

On the fire, we have a wood burning stove. I use a heat operated fan above the stove to heat the room - that way it doesnt send as much heat up the chimney.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119705148#Comment_119705148

No need to take that extreme step. As I mentioned above, the energy suppliers just need to keep pushing up the unit tariffs for non-smart meters until the cost difference makes it a no-brainer for consumers to switch to a smart meter. Sure there'll be a handful of luddites who won't switch, but time will sort that out.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119705405#Comment_119705405

Can't disagree with any of that.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119705483#Comment_119705483

Simple and effective.

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119705486#Comment_119705486

If it's cheaper to be on a smart meter you'd see people queuing up to get them. But they arent, not by some margin. I have 9 hours of 7c/kWh and 16hours of 28c/kWh. Find me a smart meter that gives anywhere near that - not to mention my price is fixed until Q3

waterwelly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119705486#Comment_119705486

I'd be thinking at that point they won't want to be getting meters read (extra cost) so some day the regular meters will be bye bye.

Makes it harder to steal electricity too I'd imagine.

Flinty997

Saw a meter reader today and I thought the same. Their days are numbered..

Nermal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119705405#Comment_119705405

If 'winning' is forcing the population to adjust their behaviour to the vagaries of renewable power, I'd hate to see what losing looks like.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119706017#Comment_119706017

I was talking to our local meter reader recently. She can't wait for it to end. She has to take the ferry to Cape Clear, Sherkin, Whiddy and Bere Islands - at her own expense - to read the meters! Claims that it costs her a fortune!

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119706065#Comment_119706065

Theres a conflict of interest though between commercial interests and energy conservation.

bullit_dodger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119706065#Comment_119706065

Not sure if you meant that as a tongue-n-cheek comment, but are you really saying that forcing people to adjust their behavior to use more renewables is a bad thing? You may be in the wrong forum then - LOL

I think most people would do this without the incentive of higher bills, but if introducing higher bills means that we use less fosil fuels, I certainly can get in behind that. Personally I think it's an educational thing - the monetary aspect will just help compliancy.