Opting out of Smart Meter Program

Zamboni

I have a small solar array and Zappi/Eddi for surplus and would not really economically benefit from FIT in comparions to maintaining my day/night meter.

Are there specific steps/notifications that I have to do to officially opt out of the smart meter program? Are there set templates with set scripts to display on the box to installers?

I get the impression that once the smart meter is in, you're snookered.

BagofWeed

smartmeter@tli.ie Email them with your name, address and just state that you do not wish for a smart meter to be installed and that TLI have no permission from you to access your property. I done it few years back and they emailed me back and left my property alone. One of me neighbours got one in and his bill has gotten far worse.

Alkers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058265229/opting-out-of-smart-meter-program

Your specific issue currently is with the smart plans which are currently available. If you go to the lengths of ruling yourself out of the smart meter programme, you could be shooting yourself in the foot, for when eventually smart tarrif rates are favourable to day/night meters.

Smart meters are not evil, they offer increased functionality to the end user and more accurate billing. The issue of smart tarrifs not being competitive is a seperate issue

Gerry

yup people need to bear that in mind and separate the meter from the tariff. the tariffs can change easier than the meter.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058265229/opting-out-of-smart-meter-program

Why not get the smart meter in (when they're installing them in your area) and simply remain on your existing tariff? Having a smart meter doesn't compel you to switch to a smart tariff.

walterking

I don't get why people don't want smart meters - usually its the not so smart people that object to anything and everything because they have nothing else to do.

Same faces popped up against 5g masts (remember they caused XXXX (fill in whatever disease you want)), wind turbines (birds dying, flicker disease and they even said cancer) and anti covid vaccines

I've a smart meter for almost 2 years. I moved to a smart meter price plan earlier this year.

My bills are LOWER than last year when comparing identical months even though the daytime unit rate is over 40% higher.

It is SO SIMPLE - event the "not so smart anti everything shower of fools" could work them out and plan their usage and save money.

My bill for August was €86 - including standing charges and vat. Decent size rural house. Washing machine, dishwasher, immersion, Iron, cooking, fridges and even a bit of tumble drying. Almost 70% of use was 2am - 4am at 8.13c/unit. All it needs is just a little amount of smart matter between the ears.

slave1

Good man Walter, 9.16c/unit ain't bad except if you were on a Day/Night rate with Energia you would have been paying 5.8c/unit and not for just 2am to 4am it's for 9 hours every night so your early morning kettle boil would be included at night rate.

But you can't avail of this because you have a (Not so) Smart Meter.

SMART meters include log calculations, "they" will know what devices are being used e.g. EVs and then there will basis for taxing home charging, also with SMART meters "they" can throttle usage or even cut you off.

No thanks

walterking

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119677472#Comment_119677472

can you please show me and everyone else where that 5.8c a unit rate is.

(and I made an error - it is 8.13c and I got €150 credit)

Please don't quote last year's rates - quote August 2022.

I have energia's best day/night rate in a holiday home I have (not a smart meter yet). It is NOT 5.8c a unit for night time

irishchris

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119677424#Comment_119677424

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119677472#Comment_119677472

Is it not 10.31c with energia EV plan?

slave1

Sure, from my current fixed pricing plan with Eneriga that expires next month (so valid for August and September 2022)

and from October 1st the new fixed plan is still cheaper than 8.13c and no worries about price increases

@irishchris I signed up a few weeks back before the hikes and as I don't have a Smart Meter they can't change the rate until the current billing cycle completes

kabakuyu

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119677379#Comment_119677379

Day/night tariff(usually cheaper} cannot yet be replicated on the not so smart meter, it is advisable to refuse them if you are currently using D/N meter.

kabakuyu

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119677424#Comment_119677424

So, you load shifted the majority of your usage to the early hours, and that resulted in a lower bill(you could have done this on a D/N meter as well and you would have had a much longer window to load shift,) your lower bill had nothing to do with the smart meter.

My bill for august was 34e.

https://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/not-so-smart-meters-how-some-new-smart-plans-have-customers-paying-more-not-less-for-energy-bills-42013780.html

graememk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119677424#Comment_119677424

Why I don't want a smart meter.

It's more expensive for me than a day night meter

Currently on

27.4 day, 7.9 night, renewed at the start of August. Also fixed for a year 😉

Energias current ev rate is now 35.78/10.31 (all prices are rising in oct)

Find me a smart plan cheaper than that now. That's all I ask

I know the standing charge is higher for a day/night meter.

I have had energy monitoring for years, even before I had solar. Once off cost, and far more responsive too

Gooser14

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119677379#Comment_119677379

I currently have a digital day/night meter. If I get the smart meter can I remain on my current day/night tariffs. If affirmative can I retain theday/night tariff plan if I switch suppliers.

slave1

If you get a Smart meter you cannot avail of your current day/night rates

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119678009#Comment_119678009

Yes to Q1 and, unfortunately, I don't know to Q 2. Good question though. Can anyone advise?

graememk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119678009#Comment_119678009

They are not switching people on day night to smart meters.

They can't just take you off your DN tariff and stick in a smart meter (by default a ,24 tariff)

You can switch to a smart meter if you pre-arrange a smart tariff or 24 hr tariff to move to. You can't stay on the day night.

Gooser14

Thanks for the answers. I'm happy with the day/night tariff plans & will be keeping my digital day/night meter.

deirdremf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119676834#Comment_119676834

Smart meters are not evil,

Too true, but the thinking behind them is. They tell you that you can use appliances at a cheaper rate in the middle of the night, for instance, but this is an anti-social time.

They will also put the price sky-high at peak hours; and if you have kids as so many of us do, they have to be fed, bathed etc at these peak times when you are paying top dollar for your electricity. You simply can't cook a child's dinner or turn on the immersion for their bath or run their shower at 2 am. And this is the real reason for introducing smart meters, it's not a green measure, although it's portrayed as such. It is an attempt at getting a captured audience to pay higher prices when people have no alternative.

SteelyDanJalapeno

Energia are not offering any smart logging, also if like us you buy house with a smart meter already installed or even move house renting, you have to then take a smart tariff.

Keep your old meters for as long as possible

slave1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119678483#Comment_119678483

You can move to a day/night tariff with Energia, they will take it from there and arrange for your Smart meter to be switched for a Day/Night meter with no cost to you apart from the phone call you make

SteelyDanJalapeno

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119678963#Comment_119678963

Can I ask a stupid question, why would they change the meter for this?

Is the smart meter not capable of logging the time?

slave1

The Smart Meter cannot handle Day/Night tariffs, beggars belief but true!

Mav11

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119677424#Comment_119677424

I don't get why people don't want smart meters

Well one very good and non-emotive reason would be that smart meters use 2g connectivity which has very weak encryption and is easy to hack.

zg3409

OP. Have you received a letter saying you are getting a smart meter? There is typically a contact number on that letter.

I also put a paper sign in meter box and on the day they attempted to install one by going to "wrong" house as in they were doing every house except mine.

If you already have a night meter it's unlikely they will offer a smart meter, as no plans are the same on smart meter. That happened to me a few years ago at another address. They basically said they "could not" install a smart meter if I have a night meter. I assume they could but then I would no longer be able to get 9 hour night rate plans anymore.

If you refuse a smart meter (you may not need to see above) then you won't get paid any feed in tariff. If you get solar panels it's likely they will try upgrade very old meters that run backwards or run slower when exporting. They know they are losing money on anyone who has a mechanical meter and panels. Even if a mechanical meter cannot run backwards but run slower you are getting a 1:1 rate on exports as in if you pay 20c to buy you export and meter may slow by 20c a unit unless you are exporting more than importing.

Alkers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119678963#Comment_119678963

If you move from smart meter to day/night you will not receive any deemed export FIT. If you are already on day /night you will, up until the smart meters are setup to work with day / night tarrifs.

Alkers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119678989#Comment_119678989

The meters themselves can, it's just not been implemented yet

slave1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119679492#Comment_119679492

semantics

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119677976#Comment_119677976

Any chance of including a link to where us mortals can avail of this cheap electricity with fixed rates for a year?

KCross

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119679490#Comment_119679490

If you move from smart meter to day/night you will not receive any deemed export FIT.

Not true apparently.

Switching from a smart meter to a day/night tariff is allowed and you still qualify for FiT via deemed export.

If you are on a 24hr tariff and you refuse a smart meter then you forfeit the right to FiT.

The key is you need to go on a d/n tariff.

That’s what ELM327 has been told and has done.

graememk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119679989#Comment_119679989

I have heard it's not fixed anymore but here's the plan

https://www.energia.ie/plans-and-switching-info/ev

I'm on my second year of it now, up until the end of July I was on 20c day, 5c night.

Alkers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119679928#Comment_119679928

Not really, the poster was alleging that the smart meters are not compatible with day and night tarrifs, which isn't true

Alkers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119680131#Comment_119680131

Yes you're correct, I had understand the poster went from day/night meter to smart meter in the first instance

suilegorma

Does anyone know if you buy a house second hand and if previous owner had a smart plan if you can juts move back to a manual plan on changing the electricity account over? Thanks

Markus Antonius

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119677424#Comment_119677424

I'd rather pay 50 extra a month to not have to plan my usage...

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119680223#Comment_119680223

Regardless of the why the effect is the same...

https://m.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/not-so-smart-meters-how-some-new-smart-plans-have-customers-paying-more-not-less-for-energy-bills-42013780.html

Zamboni

Update: It was easy to opt out.

Call 1800 928 123 and they will do it for you.

Follow up with an email to esbnetworks@esb.ie and request written confirmation of the opt out.

Unlike your assumed opt-in, the nice ESB person stated that the opt-out is reversible at any point so if rates/tariffs etc change you can just get the smart meter.

Email from ESB Networks

I can confirm your MPRN is no longer included in our current meter replacement plan. ESB Networks will inform your electricity supply company of your preference.

Please be advised, if you wish to avail of smart services (time-of-use tariffs or the electrification of heat & transport) available from your energy supply company, or to take part in any future micro-generation scheme launched by the Department of the Environment, Climate and Communications, that you will require a smart meter.

Further, our replacement meter stock is now comprised of smart meters, so please be aware that if your current meter: develops a fault, or you wish to relocate it, or if for any other reason a new meter is required then a smart meter will be installed.

If you have further queries, or would like to be re-included in our plans for a free smart meter upgrade, please don’t hesitate to contact us.

slave1

Well again ESB Networks being bully boys

"our replacement meter stock is now comprised of smart meters, so please be aware that if your current meter: develops a fault, or you wish to relocate it, or if for any other reason a new meter is required then a smart meter will be installed"

In fact they are replacing Smart Meters with D/N meters and due to EM sensitivities Smart Meters cannot be installed in certain home settings so they have to have alternative meters available.

This is just typical Gov State Body (semantics) not giving a sh1t and railroading like the Water Meter fiasco, ESB ee's don't care because they get cheap leccy

Zamboni

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119677424#Comment_119677424

It's a shame you jumped to this conclusion.

Usually the posters in a forum like renewable energies have spent considerable time and research on the topic.

This discussion is purely an economic perspective on smart metres. It is disingenuous to relate it with the topics you mentioned.

jkforde

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119680247#Comment_119680247

if the 2nd hand house has a smart meter and you don't want it, then you have to ask (demand really) a swap by ESBN. and what do you mean by 'manual plan'? non-smart 24hr tariff plan with manual meter readings?

slave1

as if we need another reason...

EU agrees consumption cuts and levies on energy firms (rte.ie)

back to the days of internet throttling, ffs

Markus Antonius

Got a letter from TLI today. Rang ESB and they put me straight through to TLI who had no problem opting me out. They warned that if I change my mind, there may be a charge to have the smart meter installed.

Flinty997

Funny how every option is about charging you more.

daheff

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119676834#Comment_119676834

Smart meters per-se are not evil. Its the actions & charging taken by the suppliers that will be.

For example, they are looking to designate 5pm-7pm as the highest tariff as thats when the highest usage of electricity is. Their idea is high cost will drive usage to a lower time. That may well be a good idea in theory, but if you think about what happens between 5 & 7 pm in your average home, all I can see it doing is adding cost to peoples bills.

Most people get home from work/school between 5 & 7. People need to use electricity to cook dinner, heat homes, put on the immersion for people (mainly kids) to have baths/showers before bed time. Granted people do other things like put on the washing machine/dryer at these times too as they are trying to get clothes washed/dried before they go to bed, rather than stay up late to finish it, or get up early the next morning to do it.

Yes people may push out things like car charging, but other than that what can people delay?

On top of this, if smart meters/different charging models were so great for Energy providers why are they so slow to offer plans that make a worthwhile saving for consumers to make the change?

From my view either the consumer saves money -which means the energy provider loses out, or the energy provider makes more money which means the consumer loses out. And I don't see energy providers making much effort to push new plans so it appears to me that they are happy with things as is.

daheff

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119677379#Comment_119677379

Because people know that ultimately they'll be forced onto a smart tariff.

plus there is the wastage of the existing meters being replaced even though they have not passed their usable life. Are these being recycled at all or just thrown out? really we can't keep being so wasteful as a society

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119704228#Comment_119704228

Almost all of that can be moved. Dryers, dishwasher, washing machines etc all have timers. Immersions can be timed to run at night.

Or, for next level, you can install some batteries, charge them up at night rate and use them during the day.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119684152#Comment_119684152

This happened me. We bought a house that had a smart meter. It was removed by ESBn within a few days.

daheff

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119704271#Comment_119704271

Do I want to run my immersion at night when I need it at about 6pm the next day to have kids shower? No- water wont be hot.

Dishwasher, absolutely can be run at night. agreed

Do I run my dryer at night- not its a fire hazard

Washing machine run at night? no - I don't want wet clothes sitting in it for hours. They start to smell again when you do that. Also means I need to get up earlier to hang up the clothes after washing. I'd rather I could do that in the evening when I'm up and about anyways. Also not all washing machines have timers either.

As for batteries - better for the energy suppliers to do this on an industrial scale & have knowledge on how to make the most efficiencies from them, rather than hundreds of thousands of households trying to do. The cost outlay for batteries is large and payback period isn't great. So is it really a solution for the average consumer?

ELM327

If you run the immersion at night it should be perfectly hot at 6pm the next day unless you have really poor insulation.

Running a dryer is not a fire hazard at night. I used to run my dryer at night the whole time. If it's such a fire hazard are you sitting watching it run with a fire extinguisher in your hand?

Wet clothes in a clean finished washing machine isnt a problem for a few hours. They don't smell.

Nowadays with my 8kWp of solar and 20kWh of storage I just run the devices when I want as they are all powered from my batteries anyway. But back before that I would usually be pulling 10-14kW for most of the night between car charging, heating water, washing clothes and dishes, and drying. I mean, it's either that or pay very expensive and about to get more expensive day and peak electric rates.

Batteries are not expensive. Even if you're not going to DIY, you can get 2kWh or more per 1k euro.

Flinty997

I'd say its makes more sense to run the dishwasher when its full, rather than just because its night time.

I'd agree I don't want dryer on at night, and damp (Clean) clothes smell if left.

Indeed, tumble dryers have accounted for 57% of all fires involving white goods in Wales over the last three years (there are on average 158 fires involving white goods in every year).

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119704320#Comment_119704320

My dishwasher is generally full at night time anyway.

57 percent of 158 fires, in wales (ie not Ireland anyway). I reckon that's more likely down to bad wiring in the houses where those fires happened.

graememk

Caught a bit of a piece on radio one this morning re smart meters. And why nobody was using the smart plans. Did touch on how it gets very complicated very fast.

But

They were using electric Ireland as the example.. the night rate is 22c!!

One of the biggest things is that the people that have already load shifted are already on day night meters.

The people getting smart meters are on 24 hr tariffs. They don't really have any reason to change.

If they did a day night is currently cheaper.