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Irish Under-20's 2023

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Comments

  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Yeah, and tbf, success at that level typically has been relatively synonymous with players successfully converting to the next level.

    Take our best ever U20s side that were hammered by England in a JWC final in 2016, that crop yielded all of Jimmy O'Brien, Jacob Stockdale, Hugo Keenan, Shane Daly, Andrew Porter, James Ryan, Will Connors and Max Deegan (plus a few other guys who made it as pros).

    The 2019 GS team has already provided guys like Ryan Baird, John Hodnett, David McCann, Niall Murray, Scott Penny, Josh Wycherley, Harry Byrne, Craig Casey, Cormac Foley, David Hawkshaw, Stewart Moore and Rob Russell who've played a lot of senior interpro or international rugby in a few cases (plus a future Scottish 10).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,125 ✭✭✭realhorrorshow


    The class of 2016 was ridiculous. Nine full internationals (Sam Arnold missed the JWC through injury), one of the best Sevens players in the world, and three additional major prospects who were wrecked by injury in Conor O'Brien, Peter Claffey, and Cillian Gallagher.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,779 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    Indeed: Even 2017 produced some good players in a poor year.

    Lyttle, Larmour, Nash, Coombes, Dowling and Boyle.

    It's tough to get a sense of where these young lads are and how they will develop.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,672 ✭✭✭ulsteru20s


    I … kind of think that last year’s side while successful won’t produce as many elite players as some of the previous ones. Def could be wrong.

    I’m more optimistic about this one but no idea if that lines up with success for the team this year.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,779 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    Last season there was good prospects. I think Devine will be grand. King wil be a good wing and Campbell looks to be very good already. The pack was pretty good last season too! I thought that Wilson and McGuire were very good.

    Who knows? We won't get a handle for a while.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Hard to know, still very early. The ones I'd be optimistic on reaching full international level at some point in future are James Culhane and Matthew Devine.

    Outside of that, I think all of Patrick Campbell, Chay Mullins, Rory McGuire, Conor O'Tighearnaigh and James McCormick look like they could be future internationals, and obviously Jack Boyle would be in my first grouping if I'd more clarity on his injury situation.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,672 ✭✭✭ulsteru20s


    My thing about last year is usually there is someone where you think this is almost a cant miss elite prospect, or as close to that as possible.

    I see more candidates this year for that than last. Everything I’ve heard about McCarthy the prop makes me think he could be a better prospect than Boyle. Quinn played so well against actual men in a preseason game (which to me is still a higher standard than under 20s) that i wonder if he is also a different level of prospect to culhane. Prendergast seems a level above tector. The top 14 winger.

    Obviously, this is all speculation, but i’m more excited about this year as of now.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Yeah, I do agree. McNabney looks a serious prospect too this year, and I'd be extremely high on Sam Prendergast.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,672 ✭✭✭ulsteru20s


    McCormick i wonder about size but otherwise agree. I’d include Postlethwaite and McLoughlin on that list too.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Yeah, I’d forgotten Postlethwaite tbh but he looked serious prospect. Another guy seemingly injured since then though so hard to read how he’s going since.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,276 ✭✭✭Lost Ormond


    Interesting to see Wales warming up for the 6Ns with a game against the Polish senior national side.

    England played Oxford and Loughborough universities. Scotland and Wales played each other before christmas.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,672 ✭✭✭ulsteru20s


    I’m not sure what’s going on there. He’s on a 4 year deal so we must rate him.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,478 ✭✭✭Wegians89


    What’s the likely first choice 15?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    IMO:

    15-9, 1-8: Henry McErlean, Rory Telfer, Hugh Cooney, Hugh Gavin, Ike Anagu, Sam Prendergast, Fintan Gunne, George Hadden, Gus McCarthy, Paddy McCarthy, Conor O'Tighearnaigh, Evan O'Connell, Diarmuid Mangan, Ruadhan Quinn, James McNabney

    Reps: Danny Sheahan, George Morris, Fiachna Barrett, Charlie Irvine, Brian Gleeson, Jack Oliver, Harry West, Sam Berman.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 93 ✭✭LRind2008




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,204 ✭✭✭PMC83



    Interview with Ike Anagu, could be a serous prospect. A bit awkward when he couldnt remember where in Ireland he was from.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,964 ✭✭✭TRC10


    Serious prospect but you have to wonder about his commitment to Ireland. Say he has a great u20s campaign and raises his profile, will he just take a big contract at a French club and play for them or South Africa in the future? Could be another Dan Kelly scenario.

    Like, if playing for Ireland was his dream, he wouldn't be going on about how keen he is to become JIFF qualified.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,204 ✭✭✭PMC83


    I guess professional sport is professional sport at this stage. But he was caught bull$hitting there. 'I've always wanted to represent Ireland...but I can't actually remember where I lived there, because it was so long ago...' He'll need to be a bit more media savvy next time.





  • Quinn played a few mins vs leinster and zebre also and didnt look out of place.

    Evan o connell put in 15-20 mins vs ulster and is still eligable for nezt years 20s



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    No, Evan O'Connell didn't get off the bench in that game. He hasn't made his senior debut yet for Munster.

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,701 ✭✭✭snotboogie


    And Oji has been completely cast aside to accommodate him. If any prospect needs a run of games at his age grade its Oji and being excluded from the squad will be enormously detrimental to his development. If Anagu uses this as a shop window for France and South Africa this whole exercise will have been a huge mistake, no matter how much he contributes to the 20's this year.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I don't think that's fair. By all accounts, Oji hasn't helped himself here, is underperforming at an AIL level and isn't hitting the S&C or fitness markers he's been given. If his development is stalling, 95% of the blame sits with him imo.

    It sounds like Anagu is going to make a business decision about his future, and is being relatively upfront about that. There is huge logic in becoming JIFF qualified, it would forever make him a much more attractive option to the Top14 clubs.

    Ireland have the option of taking a punt on him now and putting a full contract (presumably at a decent wedge) in front of him right now, or run the risk of him pulling up trees for the 20s and having others chasing him aggressively. I don't see us being outbid by the SA teams (but maybe Anagu prefers to play in SA?), but obviously there is a risk of a French team making him an offer we don't think is worth managing.

    This is the business side of rugby, as distasteful as it appears sometimes.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 93 ✭✭LRind2008


    Out of interest does anyone know the process thats involved in even finding irish connections like Ike, Playing his rugby in SA and now France with a name like Ike Anagu mustve been a hard find for an exiles scout to pick up, or is it more likely IKE reached out to the exiles set up ?. No idea how this process works.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,701 ✭✭✭snotboogie


    I really don't think Oji is in a great fit at UL, no idea on his S+C markers but yes to be fair he does look huge. Saying that, he's put in a massive shift every time I've seen him play for Ireland or Munster development teams. It's also worth keeping in mind that Oji was playing for Douglas RFC two years ago, Anagu was playing South Africa schools at the same time. Its completely expected that Anagu is way ahead of Oji in his development curve given their respective backgrounds.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,276 ✭✭✭Lost Ormond


    They come to us for most part. He is with ROG, Donnacha Ryan etc in France and was born here so presumably coaches passed it on?

    Varies a lot. England, Scotland, Wales have a few IRFU staff working to find and assess players through the exiles system but yeah beyond that its players reaching out for the most part



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Yeah, I completely get that. But I don't think Oji deserves to be in the Ireland U20s as a development milestone, if there are more talented players available.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,672 ✭✭✭ulsteru20s


    On Oji, I’m going to reserve judgement until i see the wingers on the team. I know King was under utilized last year even though he was obviously the best athlete there. So, i think there might be a tad too much emphasis on polish maybe in selection. This is a development job not a results job, or that’s the way it should be.

    I would say playing on a frankly bad AIL team as a winger is probably dispiriting. He is in the NTS system and is presumably at Munster training. So, hopefully they give him work ons and encouragement there. I think you’d still want that kind of athlete in your academy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1 DJ31


    It's seems very strange how Anagu who seems to know nothing about the country he is about to represent is welcomed with open arms and how Karl Martin has been cut loose because he was ambitious and brave enough to move to France. It surely would have been worth while bringing him back for last year's U20



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,008 ✭✭✭Shehal


    It wouldnt surprise me if Anagu either has agreed or is in negotiating a move to an Irish province, most likely the latter.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,779 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    Allegedly he's from Waterford? Munster may have the offer to get him.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,964 ✭✭✭TRC10




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,008 ✭✭✭Shehal


    He was an u19 when he played for Ireland. It only tends to be u20 level when Ireland are strict.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,701 ✭✭✭snotboogie


    Munster could really use him but he spoke about being recruited by Leinster in the OTB interview. Think there was also posts on this thread linking him with Leinster before that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,779 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    Didn't know. Obviously, he's a great prospect. Is he signed with LAR?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,276 ✭✭✭Lost Ormond




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,672 ✭✭✭ulsteru20s


    I feel like Munster have the biggest need there. You could see a path to playing time soon so they could justify giving him a senior deal.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,432 ✭✭✭FrannoFan


    He won't leave France until he has completed his 3 year JIFF qualification.

    Can leave for a province and then has the option to go back if it doesn't work out



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,701 ✭✭✭snotboogie


    That would keep him in France though to the end of the 23/24 season.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19 irishUnder20s2023


    id be surprised if Anagu ever moved to Ireland if he doesnt do it this summer.

    On the topic of Karl Martin, he left the irish system, its an unwritten rule that if you leave then you won't play for ireland. Same goes for Lucas Berti.

    On Oji, he has been on the bench for the last two UL Bohs game, he hasnt been training with Munster either, needs to be more professional by all accounts.

    Notable that Noah Sheridan was playing for Clontarf at the weekend when the rest of the 20s squad werent. Andrew Osborne waiting in the wings too.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I agree on Anagu. I can see why he wants to be JIFF qualified, but the IRFU are going to want him in the system here if there is to be a long term plan for him.

    Unless he looks like a generational talent, in which case they'll have to compete for him.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,779 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    Who is Berti? Is he Irish? I remember Martin left for Montpellier. He joined them on an academy deal. There's another lad who left the system and went over to Wales. I reckon these lads saw better opportunities?

    There will be some boys who will feel hard done by, they didn't make the squad. What are the options for them going forward? The option of going to Wales or France is a good thing for them. On that note, you would think that the English clubs would take a gamble on some lads. Some players fall through the cracks.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Lucas Berti Newman was a young guy who left the Leinster system a few years ago to go to Bristol (i think?). Bernard Jackman at the time talked it up as a travesty that this super talented young player was allowed to escape the system, but didn't really disclose his relatively close relationship to the player's father.

    Since moving to Bristol, he hasn't really flourished and looks undersized, while talented.

    Will Hickey is probably the guy you're thinking of who went to Ospreys, and I think he has gotten some game time for them (or at least into some match squads).

    It's not that these players saw better opportunities, just that in most cases there wasn't an offer there in the Irish system for them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19 irishUnder20s2023


    Berti is with Montpellier now as he wasnt EQ'd so had to leave Bristol. Looks to be playing both 9 and 10 there.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Sorry, you're right.

    TBF to him, I don't mean to sound as disparaging towards him as I did in the post above. He's obviously very talented, but I do think Birch wasn't been 100% intellectually honest with his journalist hat on when he was hyping the guy up.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19 irishUnder20s2023


    Berti was a star on that Newbridge side who could have won the cup, along with irish 20s this season in Prendergast and Mangan.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,779 ✭✭✭Dubinusa




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,432 ✭✭✭FrannoFan


    Don't think anyone doubts his talent but people just pointing out Jackman was a little invested with his comments.

    He's a little on the small side as far as I remember. Probably one of those players who was severely disadvantaged by no cup happening that year.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,672 ✭✭✭ulsteru20s


    Berti’s athletic profile at 9 is very interesting. Or his purported profile. I haven’t seen him play.

    The way the game is going, putting small athletic dudes at 9 makes sense.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,125 ✭✭✭realhorrorshow


    He spent one season at Bristol as an u18 and was a key player in their Academy Premiership winning team, what more do you expect of him?! Reading that he moved to Montpellier due to post-Brexit immigration changes making it impossible for him to continue playing for Bristol, but not sure how accurate that info is.

    None of us have a clue how he is doing at Montpellier, but it's hardly surprising that he hasn't played for the first team yet, especially if he is converting to 9.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19 irishUnder20s2023


    Incredible to me that Charlie Sheridan, who has been a standout for Naas at 18 years old and who scored 4 tries at the weekend, hasn't been involved in either irish u19 or u20 squads.

    Granted he is somewhat undersized, but he is managing AIL level quite well.



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