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Do affordable EVs exist in Ireland



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,535 ✭✭✭celtic_oz

  • Registered Users Posts: 3,204 ✭✭✭HBC08

    This was on the cards until real world realities started to kick in over the last few years.Now keeping your house heated and food on the table,keeping kids clothed,bills paid,roof over head,etc are top priorities like they have always been in many non first world countries.

    Nice, noble ideas like buying an EV are kicked down the list significantly. No government can tax ICEs out of reach for the large majority who use them.Thats now the case for the foreseeable future.

    Was always a non runner for me anyway as I don't have designated parking like about 20% of the population (the elephant in the room that never seems to be discussed)

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,966 ✭✭✭...Ghost...

    On the elephant in the room, sometimes it just means you need to be creative and proactive. My old man lives in a first floor apartment with underground parking which is not designated. It put him off getting a phev or bev for years. Last year he got a phev. We ran 4sq swa in galvanised conduit from his balcony to the carpark and mounted an outdoor socket to a column. He can charge his phev easily if parked within 2 spaces either side of the pillar. This is never an issue he says. Materials cost circa €100 and got it done in 3 hours. Finish looks very professional too. No issues in 6+ months.

    Free Palestine from Hamas

  • Registered Users Posts: 3,204 ✭✭✭HBC08

    Thanks for the detailed response and genuinely fair play to him.If I really really wanted an EV I would look into something like this.

    In my own case I don't want to have to be" creative and proactive " to get a car to work after paying more for it than any other car I've ever owned.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,142 ✭✭✭Miscreant

    I hope you put a switch in his apartment so he can turn off that socket to stop anyone else using it. 🙂

  • Registered Users Posts: 5,763 ✭✭✭Old diesel

    1) the wider issue going forward is that burning fossil fuels to drive a car down the road is unsustainable.

    2) the Govt is actually looking to deliver solutions for apartments and other cases where owners don't have a drive or other off street parking where a car could currently be charged. Im not saying they will make a good job of it - im saying that its an issue they are aware off and promising action on.

    3) part of the EV solutions on a wider level will be charging during your normal routine with no time loss to you..

    So charging while at work or while shopping - ie the car is parked where you need to be for non EV reasons so it charges while you are parked. We call this destination charging and/or grazing in the EV enthusiast world.

    4) also its literally now possible to swap an empty EV battery for a full one in 6 minutes. NIO the Chinese EV manufacturer have it operational for their customers over there.

    So that is something that Govt, EU and others can look at over the coming years

    5) climate action is needed now not when its convenient.

    6) some climate actions will actually help keep bills low if Government invest in them. Like Retrofit of homes for energy efficiency and fitting solar PV with battery storage.

    A lot of work is needed to show how EVs will work.

    Anti EVers love to dismiss Tesla but yet Tesla tech is really interesting.....

    A) Teslas are linked to an owner account when using superchargers. So you literally roll up to a supercharger plug in and the car charges.

    B) if I want to go to Italy in a Tesla I can input where in Italy I'm going and via Teslas supercharging network.

    The car will tell me where I should stop and how long for. And it will guide you there.

    I've never been to Italy in a car but I think if I did - I'd aim for my first time to be in a Tesla tbh.

    Think the ease of having a top of the range tech on navigation would easily outweigh the "hassle" of charging.

  • Registered Users Posts: 3,204 ✭✭✭HBC08

    Sounds great and when all that is implemented and affordable then I'll make the switch.

    I'm not very clued in on the subject but the Ukraine/cost of living and covid to a lesser extent have pushed back these ideas,how far I dont know.More pressing real world realities have kicked in.

  • Registered Users Posts: 5,419 ✭✭✭creedp

    EVs are very affordable for better off people who would normally be buying €40k plus cars, especially if doing higher mileage and have their own driveway. For this lucky cohort the taxpayer is then further subsidising their good fortune by funding zero VRT and a €5k cash grant. The remaining less lucky cohort of the population will either have to stump up more money than they ever did for a car before and maybe pay the much higher charging cost at public charges or, as realistically many will just continue to drive ICEs for some time yet.

    Of course the alternative, which is the stock response to the non affordability argument, is to buy an old Leaf and just be happy with 60 to 80 km range. Just explain to your kids that you cant ferry them on a single trip in excess of 30km in a day or even multiple shorter trips aggregating to 30km because their parents affordable environmentally friendly EV isn't up to the job. Not to worry they'll understand!!

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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,763 ✭✭✭Old diesel

    I thought the EV transition was being planned on the basis that the ICE cars will continue to be sold new up to 2030.

    And continue being used for the following 15 years up to 2045.....

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,966 ✭✭✭...Ghost...

    Yeah he can switch it off from his apartment.

    About as legal as erecting a "ballgames not permitted here" sign without permission. His management company is less than useless and have been discussing EV chargers in the UG carpark for at least 4 years. All they do is discuss and defer. Sometimes people just need to act (within reason) to get something done and pave the way forward.

    Free Palestine from Hamas

  • Registered Users Posts: 773 ✭✭✭Busman Paddy Lasty

    Cat A VRT is 7% and this is not specifically for EVs. Any petrol or diesel is welcome to achieve <50g CO2/km. The €5k grant is arguably not the best use of taxpayers money and it looks like it's going to be reduced or removed next year.

  • Registered Users Posts: 951 ✭✭✭gabbo is coming

    Hi, slightly off topic but why does nobody talk about the eberlingo, erifter and combi, are they just terrible?

    Will they eventually get a 75kwh battery?

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,459 ✭✭✭PCeeeee

  • Registered Users Posts: 5,419 ✭✭✭creedp

    Vrt was designed as a measure to screw as much money as possible out of motorists under an environmental veneer. It was designed for ICE cars and not EVs. EVs are effectively a class of private vehicle that are effectively untaxed as the Govt effectively pays people to drive them. How long can this last?

  • Registered Users Posts: 5,763 ✭✭✭Old diesel

    In my eyes paying people to drive an EV would be something like.

    "Heres an EV thats not only free but we will give you 250 euro a month to drive the car".

    The thing to remember is that for sure taxpayers are paying EV grants.....

    But the thing is - EV drivers are also taxpayers.....

    The point of a grant is to try to compensate for the fact that EVs are (unless its an MG4) usually dearer then the ICE equivalent.

    For me the idea EV drivers are being paid to drive the cars is just not true.

  • Registered Users Posts: 715 ✭✭✭Timfy

    Serious question... I'm neither pro nor anti EV, just trying to cost it all out like most people seem to be on here.

    With EVs being considerably heavier and delivering torque in a much more "on/off" way, is the cost of tyres something that should be taken into account?

    I get through a set per year on a 1.5 Captur (not driving like a nutter, just a lot of rough surfaces and swervery out here in the sticks!). Having to increase that could be pricey...

    No trees were harmed in the posting of this message, however a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.

  • Registered Users Posts: 3,126 ✭✭✭Buddy Bubs

    I got cupra born this week, has 3 year cupra care package included which is free service plan I believe, but it also includes my first set of replacement tyres. It's my first ev so we'll see how long the tyres last compared to other cars I've owned.

    I don't know if other EVs have this as part of the purchase or not

  • Registered Users Posts: 5,419 ✭✭✭creedp

    Obviously I didn't mean the Govt is delivering a gift wrapped present but that EVs are subject to negative motor related taxation

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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,267 ✭✭✭eagerv

    Out of interest what tyres did your Born come with? I know with the ID.3 there were/are at least three makes, with very different lasting qualities.

  • Registered Users Posts: 3,126 ✭✭✭Buddy Bubs

  • Registered Users Posts: 4,267 ✭✭✭eagerv

    One of the better tyres imo. Should get 30K at least out of them..😊

  • Registered Users Posts: 4,267 ✭✭✭eagerv

    Sorry I am incorrect, they are the ones that don't seem to last too well on the ID.3. Getting mixed up, sorry..

  • Registered Users Posts: 3,126 ✭✭✭Buddy Bubs

    Make up your mind!

    Hopefully I get 30k kms out of the 2 sets so

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,966 ✭✭✭...Ghost...

    Most people wanting one (myself included) want 7 seat versions which are either not available in Ireland, way more expensive, or have tiny range. This is what put me off.

    Free Palestine from Hamas

  • Registered Users Posts: 4,267 ✭✭✭eagerv

    Yea I think some people only got about 15K from the Bridgestones, I got 27K from the Goodyears (Not all easy driving) with still some life left

  • Registered Users Posts: 3,126 ✭✭✭Buddy Bubs

    We are all different drivers on different surfaces so we'll see how I get on.

    I'd be easy enough on tyres and brakes, I can't stand seeing people drive up behind others then braking where just keeping proper distance they could do it without braking and accelerating.

    I get a move on when there is space to do it all the same

  • Registered Users Posts: 64,311 ✭✭✭✭unkel

    eBerlingo starts at €35k. That's a lot of money for what's essentially a van with only 5 seats and very limited motorway range

    You do get lots of space though and the reviews were pretty good

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  • Registered Users Posts: 773 ✭✭✭Busman Paddy Lasty

    ^^ Specifically says in previous comment that the bands are CO2 based and not reserved for electrics.

    VRT is designed to screw punters, agreed and nothing new there. Should be abolished. EVs are subject to VRT and VAT and the incentive will be tapered or removed. Negative taxation new cars, not in this country.