Do affordable EVs exist in Ireland

...Ghost...

Also....do you have a driveway to have a charger installed, or is it possible to install a charge point at your residence.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119624126#Comment_119624126

I do have a driveway, but I could also charge at work... commute is less than 10km now, and only 2 days a week, max. Never have reason to drive outside of Dublin.

Thanks, I will keep reading. :)

...Ghost...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119624244#Comment_119624244

Changing to EV would just be a nice experience then. Your mileage is tiny. Wouldn't be a money saver. This was my commute in Dublin for a few years and the old Nissan leaf covered me comfortably. I charged once or twice a week. I only upgraded to a longer range ev because the leaf wasn't ideal and would not meet my needs for the commute in winter. You should look at 24kWh Leafs or Zoes from 2014 or newer if you want to switch to ev. Lower tax, almost no maintenance and a much nicer drive.

dingbat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119614542#Comment_119614542

Why are ye a two car household when your other half works from home? (not having a pop - it's about usage patterns)

unkel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119628076#Comment_119628076

Seriously? Dropping kids to childcare / school for starters. He is not in Dublin, I'd imagine it's not a walking distance.

slave1

The talk here of Joe public being stuck with ICE due to high entry cost...what you're forgetting about is ICE will suffer huge tax increases and will be priced out if the market with VRT, Motor Tax and fuel hikes

Yeah

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119628076#Comment_119628076

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119628214#Comment_119628214

Indeed, Kids dropped to school and picked up from Granny's, 5 days a week, GAA when I'm not home in time, long list.

Living in the Country, if the School can't get in contact with Granny and the Kids are sick etc etc.

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119624244#Comment_119624244

Start a log.

Keep a piece of paper in the car and for the next month right down your mikes you travel each trip.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119628759#Comment_119628759

I know that already. I'd drive approx 500 km per month in total, between local journeys and work.

KilOit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119616131#Comment_119616131

Wtf, thought I was seeing things with that mileage, 120k km in 2 years! insane, circled the earth 3 times. need your head examined to buy a car driven that hard. the whole village must drive it

Grumpypants

Must have been a taxi.

unkel

120k km is nothing for an EV. Wouldn't bother me for a minute

bmc58

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119614885#Comment_119614885

Masses is not a nice description of ordinary hard working people.

liamog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119634516#Comment_119634516

The masses simply refers to the majority of a population.

loopymum

Do 2020 Konas have adaptive cruise control & Lane keep assist? Bsd? Etc?

I have an ioniq premium se with all with all the bells & whistles & I would be slow to change to a car without adaptive cruise control

unkel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119634516#Comment_119634516

Plebs is not a nice description of ordinary hard working people. As in the plebs are now allowed to charge at some Tesla Superchargers.

Old diesel

Part of the issue is scarcity of supply.

My car would probably cost 4 k more to buy today in a dealers.

Vs what I paid for it 13 months ago.

Yet its 13 months *older* with more KMs on the clock.

A big litmus test of this is how MG4 pricing plays out in Ireland.

A poster on another thread has had it implied to them that MG4 could be 37 k here.

So is the problem EVs or is it Irish Govt/dealers/importers refusing to offer good value.....

Just a thought.

What Irish EV market probably needs is someone whose actually passionate about EVs and keen to offer best value for money.

Its not just the end price but also having dedicated EV knowledge and developing the skills to deliver back up and support to the customer.

Its about someone been able to anticipate the market and looking to deliver cheap EVs to buy outright when market isn't great (oversupply).

But offer good lease deals if residuals look good.

The current dealer model hampers EVs for a number of reasons...

1) you pay dear for EVs from someone with as much interest in EVs as they do a breakfast cereal box.

2) there is still a yard full of ICE cars that need selling. Why tell a customer whose on the fence about EVs that an EV thats going to take 6 weeks to come (cancelled order) is THE ANSWER and much better then a Passat diesel.

When you've got a Passat diesel in the yard they can drive away TODAY.

Its reminds me of the housing crisis - too many people in the supply chain are benefiting from prices being high and supply too low.

Old diesel

Is now a good time to note that Phil Fitzgerald was and is a big loss to the EV market.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119628267#Comment_119628267

I'm not sure thats true.

I was surprised in London during the summer just how many high end EVs there were, Porsches everywhere and cheaper EVs Leafs, Zoe, while around were nothing like as common, even beside ULEZ. Then I realized most people don't have their own driveways in London (except the wealthy). So public charging is under great demand. So lots of newish small petrol cars were far more popular than I expected. Because of the tax regime and the charging infrastructure.

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/cars/article-9330031/Electric-car-North-South-divide-revealed-ownership-EVs-rises-53.html

AMKC

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119624244#Comment_119624244

A Renault Zoe sounds about perfect for you.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119637377#Comment_119637377

I do like the look of the Zoe, more so than the Leaf, but with the Zoe starting at €30k - I couldn't justify it, and wouldn't spend it. Not for the 500km a month I drive, max.

AMKC

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119638660#Comment_119638660

Buy a second hand one.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119638795#Comment_119638795

The second hand ones I've seen online are still expensive - averaging around €25k.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119639147#Comment_119639147

You have to work out the total cost of ownership including running costs and depreciation over how long you'll own the car. Vs the same for petrol equivalent.

unkel

@[Deleted User] - there are much cheaper Zoes out there, but be careful as the older cars were all sold with battery lease, which is very expensive and you will have to pay it forever. Some owners bought out this lease, but you will want to see clear proof that the battery is owned.

With your super low mileage and if you never need to drive more than about 60km, you could also consider a Renault Fluence Z.E. these are also fully electric, very comfortable, but they can't fast charge. These also came with battery lease originally, so try and find one with battery owned.

Flinty997

Buying out the Zoe lease was talked to death online. But I never saw any first hand evidence that Renault ever facilitated this.

There are some older cars without battery lease but I'm guessing about 5% of them. They were rare when I was looking for one about 4-5yrs ago. I stopped looking.

Thanks all,

See this is what I mean about switching to an EV .... I haven't a clue about battery leases (?!?) or things like that and I'd be terrified I'd end up spending a lot of money on a big mistake, its all very confusing!

But I appreciate the advice.

Buddy Bubs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119639482#Comment_119639482

At 6000kms per year in a micra you're looking at using around 1000 litres of fuel in a year which is somewhere between 1500 and 2000 euro a year depending on where price of petrol goes in the next year

An ev would use about 900 to 1200 kws of electricity based on 15/20 kW per 100kms which would be about 250 to 300 euro so saving around 1200 to 1700 a year on fuel with a bit of a variance in petrol and electricity allowed for...and we don't really know where either one is heading

So that's where you are, is it worth moving to electric for that saving? I can't answer that for you. Depends on the cost to change from the micra to whatever ev you'd buy and what you'd spend

unkel

There's also significant savings on motor tax, insurance, maintenance and tolls. M50 off peak is 75% discount for an EV. And EVs have very low depreciation. And of course there's the environmental impact. There's more to an EV than just fuel savings!

unkel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119639482#Comment_119639482

It's not that hard, if the battery is owned, there should be a letter from Renault RCA (their finance company) stating that the battery is owned. I have a Fluence myself (battery owned) and I have that letter.

DaveyDave

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119639560#Comment_119639560

6,000km in a Micra doing 6.4L (1,184 entries on Spritmonitor) at €2/L would be €768. That's a fairly low cost in terms of petrol and probably doesn't warrant switching to another car.

Buddy Bubs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119640071#Comment_119640071

My maths were very wrong!

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119640071#Comment_119640071

With such low mileage servicing costs will be low as well. Though you can be lucky/unlucky with that.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119640071#Comment_119640071

Currently it's costing approx €62 to fill the tank to full from empty, and I would get at least 3, almost 4 weeks out of that.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119640981#Comment_119640981

You need to start adding up all costs. Not just fuel.

kirving

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119640086#Comment_119640086

I read your post and thought it was high, then did 6000[km] / 6[l/100km] and got 1000l too. 🙈

Of course it should be 6000 [km] * 6[l/100km]

= (6000[km]/100[km]) * 6[l]

= 60 * 6[l] = 360[l]

IMO, if the decision to switch to an "affordable" EV is down to cost only, and ignores driving experience, environmental impact, or comparison to a new ICE car, then of course servicing, tolls, etc. come into it. But they're heavier on tyres and suspension parts, albeit lighter on brakes generally.

But remember too the potential cost of an issue with an out of warranty EV vs an ICE - lower likelihood absolutely, but BMW are looking for at minimum €4k, and potentially up to €8k for a battery repair (not replacement) on my PHEV. I'm really struggling to find an independent to do the work instead. I will never see fuel savings balance that cost, and the stakes are higher for a BEV. I would absolutely buy a warrantied EV, but I'd want to be making serious savings versus an ICE to justify one out of warranty.

Buddy Bubs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119641199#Comment_119641199

Ha yeah was just doing some man maths in my head I normally get them right.

I'm a recent EV convert but I don't think it suits Louze here to change.

But i wanted to change anyway. The only financial sense it made for me is the chance there will continue to be supply issues which will keep residuals high, which may or may not happen, who knows.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119641261#Comment_119641261

Yes, I'd really like to change, and sure we all will have to eventually. I just need to learn a lot more before taking that leap!

crisco10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119641379#Comment_119641379

I think low mileage like yours in a modest petrol like micra will take a while to make sense tbh.

...Ghost...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119641379#Comment_119641379

Don't take a test drive in an EV, because you'll not be able to resist buying one 😄.

celtic_oz

The MG4 Excite Standard Range price is €27,495;

atahuapla

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119623446#Comment_119623446

You'd be hard pushed to get a Zoe for <€33k. I don't think that fits the 'affordable' bracket at all.

You can get a new Dacia Spring in NL for €18k, €20k in DE and as low a €14.5k in FR after grants. Until there are EV options in this price range, I would answer the OPs question with a firm no, there are no affordable EVs in Ireland.

HBC08

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119628267#Comment_119628267

This was on the cards until real world realities started to kick in over the last few years.Now keeping your house heated and food on the table,keeping kids clothed,bills paid,roof over head,etc are top priorities like they have always been in many non first world countries.

Nice, noble ideas like buying an EV are kicked down the list significantly. No government can tax ICEs out of reach for the large majority who use them.Thats now the case for the foreseeable future.

Was always a non runner for me anyway as I don't have designated parking like about 20% of the population (the elephant in the room that never seems to be discussed)

...Ghost...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119679206#Comment_119679206

On the elephant in the room, sometimes it just means you need to be creative and proactive. My old man lives in a first floor apartment with underground parking which is not designated. It put him off getting a phev or bev for years. Last year he got a phev. We ran 4sq swa in galvanised conduit from his balcony to the carpark and mounted an outdoor socket to a column. He can charge his phev easily if parked within 2 spaces either side of the pillar. This is never an issue he says. Materials cost circa €100 and got it done in 3 hours. Finish looks very professional too. No issues in 6+ months.

HBC08

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119682737#Comment_119682737

Thanks for the detailed response and genuinely fair play to him.If I really really wanted an EV I would look into something like this.

In my own case I don't want to have to be" creative and proactive " to get a car to work after paying more for it than any other car I've ever owned.

Miscreant

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119682737#Comment_119682737

I hope you put a switch in his apartment so he can turn off that socket to stop anyone else using it. 🙂

Old diesel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119679206#Comment_119679206

1) the wider issue going forward is that burning fossil fuels to drive a car down the road is unsustainable.

2) the Govt is actually looking to deliver solutions for apartments and other cases where owners don't have a drive or other off street parking where a car could currently be charged. Im not saying they will make a good job of it - im saying that its an issue they are aware off and promising action on.

3) part of the EV solutions on a wider level will be charging during your normal routine with no time loss to you..

So charging while at work or while shopping - ie the car is parked where you need to be for non EV reasons so it charges while you are parked. We call this destination charging and/or grazing in the EV enthusiast world.

4) also its literally now possible to swap an empty EV battery for a full one in 6 minutes. NIO the Chinese EV manufacturer have it operational for their customers over there.

So that is something that Govt, EU and others can look at over the coming years

5) climate action is needed now not when its convenient.

6) some climate actions will actually help keep bills low if Government invest in them. Like Retrofit of homes for energy efficiency and fitting solar PV with battery storage.

A lot of work is needed to show how EVs will work.

Anti EVers love to dismiss Tesla but yet Tesla tech is really interesting.....

A) Teslas are linked to an owner account when using superchargers. So you literally roll up to a supercharger plug in and the car charges.

B) if I want to go to Italy in a Tesla I can input where in Italy I'm going and via Teslas supercharging network.

The car will tell me where I should stop and how long for. And it will guide you there.

I've never been to Italy in a car but I think if I did - I'd aim for my first time to be in a Tesla tbh.

Think the ease of having a top of the range tech on navigation would easily outweigh the "hassle" of charging.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119682737#Comment_119682737

Can you legally do that?!?

HBC08

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119684564#Comment_119684564

Sounds great and when all that is implemented and affordable then I'll make the switch.

I'm not very clued in on the subject but the Ukraine/cost of living and covid to a lesser extent have pushed back these ideas,how far I dont know.More pressing real world realities have kicked in.

creedp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119679047#Comment_119679047

EVs are very affordable for better off people who would normally be buying €40k plus cars, especially if doing higher mileage and have their own driveway. For this lucky cohort the taxpayer is then further subsidising their good fortune by funding zero VRT and a €5k cash grant. The remaining less lucky cohort of the population will either have to stump up more money than they ever did for a car before and maybe pay the much higher charging cost at public charges or, as realistically many will just continue to drive ICEs for some time yet.

Of course the alternative, which is the stock response to the non affordability argument, is to buy an old Leaf and just be happy with 60 to 80 km range. Just explain to your kids that you cant ferry them on a single trip in excess of 30km in a day or even multiple shorter trips aggregating to 30km because their parents affordable environmentally friendly EV isn't up to the job. Not to worry they'll understand!!