Westmeath school gets temporary injunction banning a suspended teacher from it's premises

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119550713#Comment_119550713

In fairness, that poster believes the end of days are impending so doubt they care.

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119550872#Comment_119550872

bye now.

bokale

Maybe a change in thread title is needed. It's a tad misleading?

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119550803#Comment_119550803

Well you do realise that serious religious people do not accept randomness or determinism as abstract concepts that explain life? So if life doesn't 'just happen'...

There is purposive good and purposive evil at work in the universe (from a religious pov) and it is influenced by supernatural beings.

While you may be able to find liberal Christians who laugh at the above statements they are usually people who have absorbed a lot of atheistic assumptions without really thinking it through.

walshb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119543938#Comment_119543938

The family seem to be constant nuisances!

TaurenDruid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119549770#Comment_119549770

Somewhat prevalent. 1 in 500 to 1,000 are born XXY. Roughly 1 in 1,000 are born XYY. Roughly 1.7% are born with intersex traits.

For comparison, one baby with Down syndrome is born out of every 547 live births - approximately 110 babies with Down syndrome are born in Ireland each year.

The "bend" society is being asked to do here is to use a different name for someone, and use different pronouns. Ever had a relative who took her husband's surname when she got married?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119550599#Comment_119550599

When the baby comes out of the mother's womb it is probably either male or female, but there's a 1 in 1,000 chance it'll have an extra X chromosome and another 1 in 1,000 chance it'll have an extra Y chromosome and a 1.7% chance it'll have intersex characteristics and well, I guess if you believe in a god then you'd have to then say this is how your god created them and respect that?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119550961#Comment_119550961

Off topic, but that is a load of twaddle. The entire artifice around good versus evil in the monotheistic tradition is essentially an allegory of the internal struggles of the human psyche and the manifestations of those within the prevailing culture. It was initially an attempt to explain what could not be explained which subsequently became dogma and an artifice to control the population.

The polytheistic religions that preceded the dominant monotheistic religions we now have actually represented a much more nuanced understanding of the human condition and human interaction with the world, with multifaceted “gods” representing the complex nature of life and existence in a much richer fashion than the good vs evil dogma that has come to dominate.

The type of pre 16th century religious thought that is growing at an alarming rate represents a retreat away from a view of religion that acknowledges the complexity of existence towards the dark ages view of religion where everything is dumbed down to simplistic dogma, without room for independent thought, nuanced views and above all, compassion and tolerance

Potential-Monke

@Quin_Dub Just replying to your post from a couple pages back. I agree with everything you said. He was suspended for being a psycho dick, not for refusing to use a new pronoun and name. I was suggesting that, legally, that person cannot just decide to use a different name and expect everyone to follow suit. Once legally changed, sure, no problem. Up to that point... And I'm not speaking specifically in relation to people transitioning, just that's the most likely reason for a name change imo.

I completely agree that whole family are nutjobs, and he got what was coming to him because of his actions. And hopefully more, he does seem like a right loon. I expect him to be fired tbh for his actions. But with a legal family behind him they're probably taking their time to do it right. I was just commenting on the legality of the name change and if it wouldn't be wrong (legally, not morally) to refuse to use it until a legal name change.

It's separate to the thread I suppose in general, different topic. I'll just re-iterate that I'm so happy I don't have to deal with any of this, because I'd probably mess it up unintentionally.

85603

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119551135#Comment_119551135

The bend here is that you will publicly concede to my minority worldview of biology and if you don't then I'll get you fired.

I am the 1 in 1000, step aside.

Quin_Dub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119551241#Comment_119551241

I take your point , but the legal element really only comes in to things if the individual wanted to get paper-work in their new preferred name - Passport , State exam results etc.

If someone wants to be called something different - whether that's a short-hand (like Bob instead of Robert) , a nickname or indeed a name that potentially indicates a different gender (or indeed no specific gender) then complying with their request is an act of simple human decency. It shouldn't require legal approval.

It's just a case of not being an inconsiderate ass-hat for no reason other than to assert your perception of your moral "rightness" on to someone else.

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119551183#Comment_119551183

If you read the New Testament carefully such as the Gospels and Revelation, demons and spirits are mentioned often. These explanations were there from the beginning regardless of the theological emphasis in different centuries.

I don't agree that the Mystery Religions or polytheistic Hinduism (I assume that's what you're referring to?) represent the 'complex nature of life' better than Christianity, which comes with its own library of works filled with insights that are beyond most great literature. Who is the St. Paul of Attis-worship?

When the Greeks tired of the abstract atheism of the philosophic systems they adopted the mystery religions which had personal gods. Then they jettisoned the mystery religions in favour of Christ. What person who wanted a personal connection to the divine would choose Mithra or Cybele over Christ? In practice nobody.

Because a humane God who takes a personal interest in our salvation, born with a human heart, is what those people wanted (and what I want).

Of course there is room for independent thought within Christianity but there is no blank cheque to re-shape all aspects of reality at will which is what liberalism increasingly seems to be about. Lots of people who take this 'bargain' will crash back down to earth again and regret it and ask "Why did no one warn me?" It can be more compassionate to tell someone something they don't want to hear than to indulge them.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119550898#Comment_119550898

So are the claims as to why he was suspended from some, when it it was for harassing the principal and causing a disturbance at a work event. But the truth and breaking a very specific commandment about being truthful hasn't been a barrier for them before

Ten of Swords

Mod - Thread title updated to reflect the actual content of the article linked in post #1

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119551508#Comment_119551508

Great so where is the proof that every poster who said he was suspended for using pronouns was deliberately lying in full knowledge of the truth rather than confused by the story/headline? Plus proof that it was only Christians who did this? Thanks in advance

bokale

Excellent work changing the title.

Crazy how people like to spin stuff.

Gusser09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119543936#Comment_119543936

TBF Boards.ie made shite of the site with the "upgrade". They shouldn't be shocked when their customers follow suit.

Anyway not a lot to say about this lot. They seem to love the publicity.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119551596#Comment_119551596

So you are going with people not having the comprehension skills to understand the article linked or were too lazy to read it and just went with the persecution angle as the reason for his suspension, based on their dislike for some young person being treated with some respect for their choices as an argument for what they posted?

Also where in my post did I say that it was only Christians who did so?

Gusser09

With people saying thay Enoch may have a point but went the wrong way about it they should remember that at the heart of it is a teenager going to school with a lot of pressures etc already. The last thing they needed was for a teacher to act the cnut like this for their own benefit. If i were in my place of employment and openly questioned someomes personal circumstances id be reprimanded and suspended with a sacking probable.

This family are a **** scourge.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119551731#Comment_119551731

If you followed your boss around in the same way you would also most likely be getting the sack. Or if in some places I worked in the past a couple of punches off them.

Gusser09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119551748#Comment_119551748

A contrary bunch of nutters that lot.

Id say he goes mad at the "mayo4sam" signs.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119551506#Comment_119551506

If you read the New Testament carefully such as the Gospels and Revelation, demons and spirits are mentioned often

if it’s in a book it must be 100% true, and not in any way a primitive attempt to understand the human condition

don't agree that the Mystery Religions or polytheistic Hinduism (I assume that's what you're referring to?)

No, am referring to the pre Christian European polytheistic pantheons such as the Greek, Roman and Norse religions, as well as the druidic tradition, when the god figures often had similar neuroses to those of the people, each representing a different aspect of the human condition. I suspect the Hindu religious pantheon would probably express something similar but don’t know enough about it

What person who wanted a personal connection to the divine would choose Mithra or Cybele over Christ

That’s interesting given the Greeks and romans essentially created Christianity out of an amalgam of the writings about the first century preacher combined with cherry picking elements of other emerging religions at the time and retaining traditions the dominant religion within the Roman Empire

Because a humane God who takes a personal interest in our salvation

And your pronouns it seems

TaurenDruid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119551376#Comment_119551376

It's not a "minority worldview". It's medical and scientific fact.

You're entitled to your own opinion. Your not entitled to your own facts.

TaurenDruid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119551241#Comment_119551241

"Legally" you can change your name to anything you want, at any time, and once you use it consistently and it's not for the purpose of fraud that's it, you're done. Different institutions might want you to fill in a form. Maybe. There's a huge percentage of the Irish population, especially, normally known by a different forename than the one on their birth cert.

Boggles

So he was suspended for being aggressive and chasing the principal.

They need to stop pandering to this type of scum, next time he shows up get the guards to escort him off the grounds.

There’s two religions at play here. Old school Christianity and the new gender identity religion, which comes complete with transubstantiation and gender souls.

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119551596#Comment_119551596

Lying? probably not. Being lazy and not reading past the headline? definitely.

Formosa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119550599#Comment_119550599

Welcome to the discussion Enoch

https://twitter.com/spicynigel/status/1565220168950857728?t=yBP1s_d9ZV6FFSBbPf_hQg&s=19

Apparently violated the injunction so that'll be some trouble for him...

Neyite

He shouldn't be let near pupils. I bet no student would get away with calling him Mr. E or Eeeno, instead of Mr. Burke.

I was suggesting that, legally, that person cannot just decide to use a different name and expect everyone to follow suit. Once legally changed, sure, no problem. Up to that point... And I'm not speaking specifically in relation to people transitioning, just that's the most likely reason for a name change imo.

My FIL was known all his life by his second name, not his first. A guy I work with is the same. I've been known by my partners surname in our locality even though I was not yet married to him. Now that we are, I can choose to use either. It's ridiculously common in Ireland to have names that sometimes bear little resemblance to the ones on your birth cert, with no legal paperwork going on and often the only time I've found out they had a different official name, is at their funeral mass.

So if we can manage to call Michael by his preferred name, Mick, or call John Seanie so he doesn't get confused with his dad, or call Elizabeth Betty because she hates the nickname Lizzy, surely we can manage it for a child in a school - whatever their reason for requesting it. It's basic respect.

Marcusm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119547254#Comment_119547254

I’d agree with this. It does sound as if there was a lack of temperance or potentially belligerence in the suggestion that he followed the principal around the school for a discussion.

if he has a problem then it’s easy to deal with it by consistently referring to the person by their (ha!) given (or in this case taken) name and avoiding the use of pronouns.

Mr Burke wants respect for his belief in an unprovable being but is unwilling to show similar respect to another human being.