Westmeath school gets temporary injunction banning a suspended teacher from it's premises

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119548633#Comment_119548633

Are you really Mr. Sensitive to People's Beliefs yourself? Think about what you're doing. You're insulting all monotheists just because one rando from Castlebar did something you don't like.

Probably your real position is that commitments to leftism should be respected and other beliefs should be bulldozed out of the way. If that's the case just say so, no need to pretend that you care about things like basic manners, other people's sensitivities etc.

Quin_Dub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119548684#Comment_119548684

no need to pretend that you care about things like basic manners, other people's sensitivities etc.

Did you open the window on the glass-house before lobbing that one?

TaurenDruid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119548575#Comment_119548575

Singular "they/them" pronouns are nothing new.

Examples of the singular "they" being used to describe someone features as early as 1386 in Geoffrey Chaucer's The Canterbury Tales and also in famous literary works like Shakespeare's Hamlet in 1599.

"They" and "them" were still being used by literary authors to describe people in the 17th Century too - including by Jane Austin in her 1813 novel Pride and Prejudice. ~ https://www.bbc.com/news/newsbeat-49754930

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119548684#Comment_119548684

you have no issue insulting the beliefs of those who think they were born in the wrong gender.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119548575#Comment_119548575

And yet we are asked to believe people aren't whipping themselves into a frothing rage

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119548741#Comment_119548741

I'm not claiming to respect people's beliefs, or saying that people's beliefs should necessarily be respected. I like a fierce debate.

I'm asking why the people who do say that don't practice what they preach.

Of course the answer is obvious. When they say that people's deepest beliefs should be respected, they mean their own beliefs and that of people they like and agree with - not other people's that they don't like or agree with. Mystery solved.

And while its true that "Enoch Burke started it!" that doesn't chime with claims to be better than him.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119548684#Comment_119548684

Thing is, no one has said people dont have an entitlement to their own beliefs, just that they are not immune from the consequences of the way they present those beliefs when they impact someone else. Like humiliating a teenager in a public meeting

shesty

A running theme with this family - their absolute lack of professionalism in their career of choice, regardless of what it is, it seems.

Anyone with any level of professionalism would know there is a time and a place for these discussions, especially if you want to keep your job.Who is going to fund them if they keep putting themselves out of work by escalating petty squabbles to Court?

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119548782#Comment_119548782

oh you definitely don't respect the beliefs of transgender people, that much is clear. yet you expect us to respect the beliefs of this Burke nutter. that is hypocritical.

amdublin

Omg what is the big frickin deal. Examples:

Example 1:

Hey Patricia can you pass me that pen?

Sure can. Here you go. Hey, I actually prefer Trish to Patricia.

No prob Trish! Trish it is from now on

Example 1: Is this that difficult???? Does it affect you at all?????

Example 2

Hey Trish, John is looking for this pen. Can you pass it over to him.

Sure can. Btw. John prefers gender neutral references when they are in reference.

No prob Trish! John is looking for this pen, please can you pass it to them.

Example 2: Is this that difficult???? Does it affect you at all?????

Example 3

Hey guys, I am identifiying as Mary from now on, rather than John. Please can you refer to me as Mary and her in the future.

No problem Mary. Sure can!

Hey Trish, did you hear about Mary (previously identified as John). Good for her I say, eh!

Example 3: Is this that difficult???? Does it affect you at all?????

*weirdly...I used to struggle with Example 1. When I am introduced to someone as X my mind used to struggle with calling them a different name. So when I met "Margaret" and later on they said "hey call me Mags"...my little brain would be like no, no, no, you are Margaret. But who am I to dictate to someone what they are to be called/referred to?????

foxsake

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119548735#Comment_119548735

i'm not burke. I doubt he spends his time online with the great unwashed of boards.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119548735#Comment_119548735

they are not - demanding people use them to the point of sanction is new - or at least new in my experience.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119548770#Comment_119548770

?

Quin_Dub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119548782#Comment_119548782

Everyones beliefs should be respected , but one set of beliefs absolutely cannot and does not take precedence over another. If you cannot do that , then you must accept the consequences of that.

So , his refusal to comply with a request to respect someone elses beliefs and wishes comes with consequences.

If he didn't want to comply with a wholly legal request from his employer then he could have asked them for some accommodation (like not having to directly teach that particular child) but if that could not be accommodated for whatever reason then his only remaining option would be to leave his job and find one more suited to his needs.

He didn't do that though - Because he believes his values are more important than anyone elses.

He chose to stand up at a public gathering in the school and rant about his opinions on the topic and then refused to stop when asked , to the point that he had to be physically prevented from chasing after the School Principal.

He was then disciplined for that specific behaviour and suspended and again rather than deal with that suspension through the normal appeals channel he chose to continue to turn up for work causing further disruption for all concerned. So we now have the school forced to get a legal injunction to stop him coming to the building every day being a complete nuisance.

This is standard practice for his family.

His sister( a qualified Lawyer) has failed to complete her attempts at an unfair dismissal hearing at the WRC, despite the Judge acknowledging that there was a potential case to answer because neither she nor her mother can stop themselves from grandstanding and shouting at the Judge and everyone else at the hearings to the extent that they have been repeatedly called off due to their unacceptable behaviour in Court.

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119548894#Comment_119548894

I'm not defending E. Burke's behaviour.

Effectively commitments to leftism do take precedence over other non-leftist beliefs (including but not limited to most/all religions).

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119548770#Comment_119548770

Yes, on the first page of this thread DubInMeath called the Burkes "c*nts". Posters should learn to try to control their anger instead of amplifying it.

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119548887#Comment_119548887

He wasn't sanctioned for not using the correct pronouns or name. That has been said multiple times already.

Quin_Dub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119548940#Comment_119548940

I disagree - I don't think anyone is saying that you can't be religious etc. but what they are saying is that just because you are religious and believe certain things that does not mean that your beliefs are more important than others.

If someone wants to go to prayer 10 times a day or whatever - Work away, it's absolutely no skin off my nose. But don't try to convince me to do it with you or tell me that I'm going to burn in hell because I don't.

Equally , if Stan now wants to be called Loretta then sure, I'll call them Loretta. I'm not going to be a complete cock and continue to call them Stan just because I don't really understand it and think it's all a bit mad.

It comes down to peoples ability to "agree to disagree" and just get on with the day to day stuff.

85603

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119546746#Comment_119546746

i'd allow them the option of segregating themselves if they so choose.

it appears these people have a special need. we have schools for various special needs, schools for the deaf or blind, schools for those with mobility issues, schools for those with learning disabilities. if a teacher(s) refusing to use your chosen pronoun is an issue then we can provide you an option if its too much.

my preferred name for any response is 'master'.

pjohnson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119548950#Comment_119548950

Thats just a fact, nothing to do with anger.

conorhal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119548618#Comment_119548618

Fine, lets allow reality to settle the debate then.

1) There is no God.

2) There is no such thing as a gender neutral person and pandering to such nonsense as daft as admiring 'the Emeror's new clothes'.

Kaybaykwah

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119548940#Comment_119548940

Yes, well this probably has to do with Ireland’s moving toward a more inclusive society. In 1988, a law passed that was more radical in disapproving of abortion making it a capital offense passible of life imprisonment. That was the conservative base that had enough clout to bring to bear on unwanted pregnancies.

Okay, now that there exists a much more liberal Ireland, you can debate whether to acquiesce to individual demands on the matter of gender attribution, but the fact that it is a more liberal society doesn’t mean that the churches, or sects will be punished, just given a less hold on temporal matters. I would also say that qualifying these demands by individuals should be met with compassion rather than spiritually induced derision/disapproval/denial.

Churches have now less hold on social mores in great part because the top down model has disappointed, and the lack of faith in the population has tipped the scales, but also because the serious lack of accountability was no longer acceptable in the short, medium and maybe the long term.

Quin_Dub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119549083#Comment_119549083

Except we don't really have any of those schools any more because it has been long since recognised that segregation doesn't work and that integration into the same facilities as everybody else is the best for everyone.

If all that is required from a teacher is a little bit of decency and respect it's not too much to ask and frankly if they are incapable of that then I'd suggest that Teaching really isn't for them.

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119547617#Comment_119547617

Yep. Never ending trans bashing on this site. The other thread had disgusting vile bigoted transphobia about paedophiles and groomers. This time its jumping into dehumanise people comparing them to animals.

pjohnson

And hilarious how the usual suspects are claiming Burke is being targeted because "pronouns".

He behaved like a loud mouth gowl at a formal dinner (that seems to be bred into them as sister "solicitor" Ammi is utterly incapable of shutting her own mouth long enough for even her own case to go ahead).

And then when suspended and a substitute put in place he tried to force his way in to "teach" his class. Meaning the school had to get an injuction to try and get the eejit to stay away.

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119548770#Comment_119548770

Yep. They are.

Jafin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119549083#Comment_119549083

Asking to be called by a different name or a different pronoun is not a special need, bloody hell. Are you seriously comparing this to people who have actual special needs and require additional supports in order to achieve an education? A person who is deaf usually requires a teacher who can teach using sign language. A person who is blind requires access to books written in braille. A person with mobility needs requires an accessible school that accommodates the way they get around, for example wheelchair access. People with learning disabilities require teachers who have training in helping people with learning disabilities to learn.

Someone who simply wishes to be known as Mary instead of John (or vice versa) or wishes to be referred to as they/them instead of he/she only requires that their teachers/peers change one to three words in their vocabulary when referring to them, which isn't that big of an ask.

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119548950#Comment_119548950

Why?

The Burkes have been spewing vile hateful bigotry against LGBT people for years now. They went on hateful homophobic campaigns in 2011 and 2015.

85603

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119549187#Comment_119549187

so theres no school for the deaf in cabra?

ill tell you what doesn't work. telling people indirectly that they must submit and ignore not only what they believe to be true, and have been accustomed to all their life, but also that which has a basis in science. because a one in several million individual has just arrived at the gates.

If a teacher can be told he must use that word, then you and I can be told we must use certain words too.

No I think it better that rather than having the complete country reset - at national level complexity and expense, that this individual can just go ahead and adapt to society, like most of us have had to do at some stage. And we can help them if they need.

85603

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119549278#Comment_119549278

and i only require you to call me master.

byhookorbycrook

The "they" pronoun is similar to using " ye." Quite common in Hiberno-English.

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119549314#Comment_119549314

I was responding to a poster who was concerned about "frothing rage". If you think 'frothing rage in service of a good cause' or whatever is a good thing that's your own p.o.v. I prefer to remain calm and considered (Note: not always succeeding at that admittedly)