Deep space 9 revisited

I think Mulgrew was good. She was hampered by writing which changed her character drastically from episode to episode.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120486010#Comment_120486010

She also had to spend a lot of scenes on the bridge with absolute robots.

Stark

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120486010#Comment_120486010

Yeah wanted to say Mulgrew should have gotten a mention. Writing for her character might not be the best but Mulgrew's delivery was always on point imo. Has everyone seen that video going round comparing the original Janeway actress delivering the same dialogue?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120486438#Comment_120486438

Poor Robert Beltran. Man is Native American (Mexican) but playing a US based Native American.

So they bring in a consultant who says he is Cherokee. Dude's a total fraud (had been found out in 1983!) from Eastern Europe stock called James Marks.

Now imagine having to chant "Akoocheemoya" to made up rituals being passed off as real...

Rawr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120486552#Comment_120486552

They had gotten pretty late in the production at that stage too. I have always been somewhat harsh on Voyager, with my view mellowing in later years, but jesus...can you imagine the state of the show if the other actress had gotten the gig?

Johnny Storm

The scenes between Sisko and Jake were usually very well acted, IMHO

Brian?

I’m on to season 3. Some observations:

O’Brien and Dax are great. But are rarely together in an episode.

Kiera is awful, but not as bad as I remember. She shouts about Cardassians way too much.

Quark is great, but he’s way more of a pervert than I remember

AMKC

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120485440#Comment_120485440

I’ll tell you what, I’ll keep an open mind. Can you tell me some scenes you think Nana Visitor was good in?

I can yes.

There was the episode where she was having all of her friends from the resistance killed off and then he goes to kill her and she begs him not too as she is pregnant.

There is the episode where she was supposed to be a Cardassian.

The mirror episode episodes she was always excellent in them as the evil Kira. Lots of episodes where she is good or excellent.

The Continental Op

...she begs him not too as she is pregnant.

She was actually pregnant afaik.

Don't know if this fits with the time line?

https://screenrant.com/star-trek-ds9-kira-pregnant-nana-visitor-reason/

Brian?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120701492#Comment_120701492

Mirror episodes are the worst. She plays some sort of sapphic narcissist. Bizarre stuff.

I just watched the episode where she was a Cardassian. She was ok at the end in a gentle moment. It’s the loud moments she really struggles with, often substituting shouting for acting.

Evade

I mean she's probably pretty realistic. People here still bang on about the Brits and it's been a lot less time since the Occupation (I'm ignoring sci-fi writers not thinking about scale and making it a very tame war.)

Rawr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120702352#Comment_120702352

I often wondered if Bajor & Cardassia were references for Ireland & the British Empire. You can draw a lot of comparisons:

• The much smaller Bajor having to resort to guerrilla warfare to fight the huge Cardassian military.
• Odo's role on DS9 during the Occupation not too dissimilar to how the regular Dublin Metropolitan Police tried to skirt the line of being a British police force, but also a neutral law-enforcement body concerned mainly with the law. (Later becoming part of the Gardai)
• How the Bajoran Resistance become the bulk of the Bajoran Militia, just like the old IRA formed much of the Free State army.
• The Irish are/were steriotyped as devout Catholic and religious, much like the Bajorans and their beliefs.
• Cardassian designed infrastructure remained after they departed (like DS9 itself), much like some examples of British designed buildings, equipment (and letter boxes) remaining after independance from the UK.
• The early instablilty Bajoran Provisional government also feels like a possible reference to early Irish Free State years.

Of course I could be giving them too much credit in knowing that much about Irish history. These are afterall the same people who a couple of years later greenlit the Voyager Fairhaven episodes.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120713008#Comment_120713008

And Kira (Ciara) is a redhead :)

I think there are elements of India \ Dalai Lama in there also.

Evade

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120713008#Comment_120713008

I think those parallels are very common among coloniser and colonised to specifically reference Ireland. Apart from size they would apply to Britain and India, Amareica and Native Americans, China and Korea, and Japan and China. The latter of those was much, much, more brutal and also had a Crell Moset analogue.

But that is the strength of DS9. It's allegory so people can see their own experiences in it rather than the more clumsy direct references we often get these days.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120713008#Comment_120713008

Well Jeffrey Combs used it for his vision of Andoria, later, in Enterprise

Vicxas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120713021#Comment_120713021

I'd agree with the India colonial theme too, especially with the caste system the Bajoran's used to have

AMKC

So slightly off Topic but I know a lot of us DS9 fans were Babylon 5 fans too and it's back :)

https://youtu.be/Z54XNJivHOs

OK it's only as an animation but Lower Decks is too and it's good. It looks decent and it's a start

So many of that cast gone.

AMKC

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120734880#Comment_120734880

Yes it's such a pity.

Brian?

I’m on to season 4. No Worf yet.

O’Brien and Dax still great. Kira still brutal. Quark still a perv

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120767302#Comment_120767302

What episode are you on?

Kevrano

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120480298#Comment_120480298

I'm being thick (and haven't seen the episode is years), but what is wrong with the Picard/O'Brien scene?

JohnnyChimpo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120767982#Comment_120767982

"Ahh Transporter Room 2, this was always your favourite" LOL.

So clear that O'Brien had fck all to do and zero character development throughout TNG. Bizarre then that in DS9 he develops into a swashbuckling ex-military hero tech genius union man with a penchant for hating Cardies. It suits him much better and he's one of the best DS9 characters, but just shows how he was wasted in TNG.

Shame about Keiko though. Just, in general.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120768106#Comment_120768106

The Wounded which introduced the Cardassian \ O'Brien history was a TNG episode though? One of the best.

TNG was stacked with main cast and interesting recurring characters. It was one of the strengths of TNG (and DS9) that they could bring through and give meaty stories to non main cast.

In DS9 he had a lead role.

I don't think you are comparing like with like.

MJohnston

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120768106#Comment_120768106

If anything that is the perfect Picard line — knowing absolutely **** all about the human side of his crew.

JohnnyChimpo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120768248#Comment_120768248

Oh yeah I have no problem with that scene itself! As you say, Picard is always at his best when he's at his most awkward (see "Capt. Picard Day" or any of the many times he cockblocks himself). But it does highlight that O'Brien is criminally underused throughout TNG.

To the other poster - I think I am comparing like with like. It's the same character, in two different shows in the same universe, who gets much more interesting and three-dimensional in the latter series. It's not like I'm comparing Robbie Coltrane's storylines in Harry Potter vs. Cracker. I'm not sure how the comparison could be any more "like for like" tbh.

I understand the urge to defend - these are two of my all-time favourite TV shows - but it's ok to point out where they differ

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120768678#Comment_120768678

You can't compare the development that a recurring character will get in a series with a main cast member. That is what I meant about 'like for like'. I think you do a dis-service to TNG to frame it that way. A lot of credit should go to TNG for creating the character, and bringing it to the next level in The Wounded. Which showed the potential of the character and DS9 took that and ran with it. It was a team Trek effort.

MJohnston

It would have been a lot of the same writers too

Brian?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120767746#Comment_120767746

1. There’s Worf now. Some man.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120769235#Comment_120769235

Aha ... The Way of the Warrior.