Deep space 9 revisited

Rawr · 09-04-2023 11:27am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120449776#Comment_120449776

I’m in a similar boat, although I do warm up to the season in more recent viewings. I kind of appreciate more the risk they we’re taking with a series that was mostly based on a non-Starfleet station, focusing on Bajor picking up right after decades of Cardassian occupation, only poky little Runabouts to travel in meaning our heroes were often outgunned (a major change from TNG) and possibly the start of a sense of the end of Starfleet’s “golden era” of unrivalled supremacy.

It was a gamble, a massive one, if you were like me back in the day I only gave DS9 the time of day when TNG ended, making it the only remaining Trek show near Federation space. (Voyager starts with DS9 S3, right after TNG). That happened to correspond with S2 ending with the JemHadar destroying a Galaxy Class, almost symbolically saying “The safety of TNG is gone…now sh*t just got real”

Follow that up with the Defiant & the adoption of the Generations Comm-Badge and DS9 was now a new style of mid-90s Trek that I got into. But back in S1 & S2 it had the look and feel of a budget TNG show that was more of a side quest than the main event. But those 2 seasons for what they were, were well done.

eadrom · 15-04-2023 10:53am

I watched ‘Emissary’ last night, after being a bit disappointed with what’s going on in Picard season 3, and the overly reverential tone of that show.

whatever about the quality of DS9 season one overall, that first two-parter is an incredible start to the series. Having been a little while since I’d seen any DS9 and with lots of new-Trek in-between, the drama and realism of this really stood out.

Avery Brooks is outstanding, particularly the stuff with Jake and Jenifer. The sequence at the start from Wolf 359 is so good, and anchoring the character to that tragedy and that relationship with Picard is a powerful move that works great in the episode. We’re not used to seeing Picard treated like this in a story and it really hits.

Stewart is great, too. Good to see him in his prime again. Except for that awful scene with O’Brien in the transporter room. Ooof. What were they thinking leaving that in there.

I’m more of a TNG guy usually but this episode, stand-alone, is some of the very best of Star Trek. And I’m not going to start a full rewatch but I might look for a shorter “best of Sisko / emissary” list and do that. I miss Avery Brooks.

eadrom · 15-04-2023 2:19pm

I'll go with this list of Sisko episodes. Seems about as good as any and 14 episodes is a good runtime (it's a top 10 with 4 two-parters).

https://screenrant.com/star-trek-captain-benjamin-sisko-best-ds9-episodes/

And in chronological order:

Season 1, Episode 1, "Emissary"
Season 2, Episodes 20 & 21, "The Maquis"
Season 3, Episodes 11 & 12, "Past Tense"
Season 4, Episode 3, "The Visitor"
Season 4, Episodes 10 & 11, "Homefront"/"Paradise Lost"
Season 5, Episode 10, "Rapture"
Season 6, Episode 11, "Waltz"
Season 6, Episode 13, "Far Beyond The Stars"
Season 6, Episode 19, "In The Pale Moonlight"
Season 7, Episode 4, "Take Me Out To The Holosuite"

Rawr · 15-04-2023 4:57pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120480298#Comment_120480298

You’ll notice as well that O’Brien was suddenly in his TNG uniform again for that scene, which didn’t make much sense. I’m guessing this might have been something they shot for O’Brien’s departure during the run of TNG, before they knew the details of how DS9 would appear.

FunLover18 · 15-04-2023 5:25pm

This might be controversial but I really don't think Avery Brooks was a very good actor. He was fine but boy did he love to ham it up, he is one of those who I watch and think "oh he's acting"

Brian? · 15-04-2023 5:41pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120481599#Comment_120481599

Completely agree. But the lady who played Kiera was worse.

FunLover18 · 15-04-2023 5:44pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120481640#Comment_120481640

I didn't mind her so much because she didn't get as many big acting moments as Brooks did but in the last few seasons her complete lack of chemistry with Odo was a huge problem (although she was only 50% of that), I just don't think the show needed that storyline at all.

eadrom · 15-04-2023 6:00pm

Disagree on both counts. Brooks has a certain style and it did take me a while to get with that groove, but I did and I find him a powerful and charismatic presence on screen. I don’t think he gets enough credit for the tone and energy he brought to that role, and balancing the station commander, single father, and religious figure roles so well.

And Kira / Nana Visitor? No way. She’s great.

Inviere · 15-04-2023 6:12pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120481729#Comment_120481729

Agreed on both counts here. Brooks had a powerful screen presence, and brought real weight to the screen. I thought Visitor did a great job conveying the weight of the Occupation, distrust and eventual trust of Starfleet, and so on.

Evade · 15-04-2023 6:15pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120481477#Comment_120481477

He was technically still on the Enterprise so that was the correct uniform. I bet he was glad to get pockets and rollable sleeves once he changed though.

The Continental Op · 15-04-2023 6:26pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120481599#Comment_120481599

Avery Brooks was playing a blob pretending to be human I think the "oh he's acting" is praise indeed ;-) What else does something thats not human do?

Rawr · 15-04-2023 6:39pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120481786#Comment_120481786

Possibly, but he had already transferred to DS9 and had already put on his colour-shoulders uniform by the time Sisco arrived. Redressing in his TNG uniform for the couple of hours he needed to finish up there seems odd.

I’m thinking they had a goodbye scene planned for O’Brien where Picard would symbolically transport him away, shot it, but didn’t use it until this point. He didn’t really need to transport out either, he could have just walked onto DS9 via the dock. I’m still feeling that shot this before they even knew how O’Brien would leave the Enterprise and possibly before they finalised the DS9 uniform. It might be that early DS9 plans had the same uniform as TNG.

FunLover18 · 15-04-2023 6:50pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120481817#Comment_120481817

I think you're getting confused with the actor who played Odo

Evade · 15-04-2023 7:14pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120481873#Comment_120481873

The US has a tradition of the local commander setting the uniform policy (there's nothig stopping a base commander in Iraq having everyone on base wearing their dress uniform, for example) so even while being assigned to DS9 he was still under Picard's uniform policy while on the Enterprise.

Brian? · 15-04-2023 7:52pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120481729#Comment_120481729

In season 1 Nana substitutes shouting for acting quite a lot. As the seasons go on it gets better, but she’s still not good at all.

mewso · 16-04-2023 1:37pm

I don't think Brooks was a bad actor per say but he had an annoying habit of hyperventilating during dramatic scenes which put me off him. I see his collapse in Far Beyond the Stars often cited as an amazing performance while I just thought it came across as silly and he took the hyperventilating to the max.

Evade · 16-04-2023 1:50pm

But then you get "So I will learn to live with it. Because I can live with it. I can live with it."

AMKC · 16-04-2023 2:36pm

Avery Brooks was brilliant and so was Nana Visitor. Compare any of the DS9 main actors acting or even the non main actors like Dukat or Quarks to any of the actors on Voyager and well they are two whole different leagues with the DS9 actors being near the Top maybe say 3 or 4 places from the very Top and the Voyager actors are at the very bottom.

FunLover18 · 16-04-2023 3:02pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120483945#Comment_120483945

I agree with this, someone earlier mentioned that Visitor often mistook shouting for acting and I think there are occasions where Brooks did the same. The 90s shows have always struck me as amdram with a bigger budget, Brooks is a very theatrical actor. I'm not saying he's bad but I definitely wouldn't put him in the "great" bracket either.

16-04-2023 3:35pm

Followed by...

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=EvkZ7o3fVwI

Inviere · 16-04-2023 3:47pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120484138#Comment_120484138

Couldn't agree more. In a franchise that's given us Kes, Troi, Mayweather, and other shining examples of acting, it's hard not to roll your eyes at some of the tripe posted here.