China’s Army posts “Preparing for war!”

Cheerful S

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119417542#Comment_119417542

Ukrainian forces are strongest in the east, so holding those regions is crucial. Losing there would be bad because your veterans would be injured or killed at this stage. As the troops fled, a lot of lands were captured. You can't just make veterans. Russia can take lands in other places more easily if Ukraine loses more warriors here. Ukraine is doing well because Zelensky has so many soldiers, but Russia changed tactics so they can overwhelm slowly without a lot of losses. Since Luhansk showed Russia figured out a way to take that Oblast, it's clear the Ukrainian forces can't keep the Russians at bay. From what I'm seeing, Donbas is looking bad for Ukraine too. Strategic towns are falling, which shows that the region will fall to Russia. 

They've got modern fighters, missiles, guns, everything Chinese. The US military fought guys dressed like 2000-year-old Biblical characters? Though the US army might have the best military gear, as the Vietnam and Korea wars showed, that doesn't stop a smarter army from winning. The US can't win an attrition war with China. There would be more manpower available to China. The US military will take heavy losses unless it has some secret wonder weapon.  

xxxxxxl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119417574#Comment_119417574

There not. But their tech and experience in war fighting is off the scale. China has not fought a war since 1979 odd. Just like the Russians Who when faced with a foe of modern standard had no idea what to do. Chinas experience is mostly border skirmishes with India.

Yurt2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119417574#Comment_119417574

How do you sink Okinawa? And do you think the PLA would dare trigger the US Japan mutual defence treaty if they were thick enough to even so much as set off a firework in its direction?

Use your brain. The PRC is outmatched even before it has started. You're daydreaming. In any case, carrier strike groups will be sitting outside the first island chain screaming in at Mach speeds sinking vessels for sport in this hypothetical scenario.

Take the edgelord pogs to another conflict. Maybe there's a sh*tbox autocrat somewhere in Africa that might be worth a punt for your kicks, because the Chinese will drown by the tens of thousands if they get stupid.

The nosie you're hearing from Beijing is autocrat impotent rage about an old lady landing at an airport in Taipei. That's not strength.

xxxxxxl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119417585#Comment_119417585

How are Russians going to advance when they can be hit at 300 km now. Not that this is a Ukraine thread. You do know that most of the military in China is keeping the plebs inline that's what it's for mostly. It's expeditionary force would not be much more than what Russia has put in Ukraine. The problem china has again stuff looks good on paper. Never tested. And your gonna test these untested systems against one of the most battle hardened forces in the world.

Yurt2

An attempted invasion of Taiwan would of course be an apalling vista, but I would welcome it in one respect:

Watching the absolute comedy of the Chinese air force and their potemkin indigenous jets get absolutely rinsed by everything from the F18s, F22s to F35s.

Chinese airframes start out as an ersatz copy of an American one, they swiftly find out things like their native developed engines, wing profiles, avionics etc are sh*t - so they cobble together a reverse engineered solution with off-the-rack Russian components from an older platform. You end up with a Frankenstein kit with significant ad hoc changes across the platform that differs from one maintenance facility to the next. Add in the problem that Russian supply chains in their aerospace sector is f*cked.

Those pieces of sh*t will fall out of the sky over Fujian province before Taiwanese missiles can put them out of their misery. It'll be a comedy show.

xxxxxxl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119417604#Comment_119417604

Is one of their biggest issues not being able to reverse engineer unstable airframes. That's hardware and software. Stuff they stole was probably s*it that would never work conventionally. China is great at copying like for like if they have all the pertinent information. Innovation not so much. Gone are the days of free thinking and problem solving replaced by the CP.

Lads, put yer mickeys away.

China is not invading Taiwan.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119416773#Comment_119416773

Oi, Herdquitter.

Where did the Neoliberals go?

archer22

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119417574#Comment_119417574

They are actually quite vulnerable to modern missile technology, America's carriers are not only their biggest asset but also their achilles heel.

If they start losing those then their main ability to project power around the globe is finished and they are fcuked as a superpower.And getting into a war with China means losing them is a very strong probability.

China is not Grenada or Iraq where American aircraft carriers heading toward look big and scary, heading toward a giant industrial and technological power like China they will just look pathetic.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119417733#Comment_119417733

The same views were held about the Russian military until they invaded Ukraine.. Remember all those high tech weapons Russia was rumoured to have. If a military has largely been inactive and not using their military hardware, they're in a default weaker position.

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119417119#Comment_119417119

Hopefully, it will work out like that...but I'm not so sure that the Chinese attitude to the lives of its citizens ( or any other Country's Citizens either) causes them to worry overmuch, if it does come to war. So maybe their economy will cause them to take care.

archer22

What is the purpose of that old witch's visit to Taiwan, apart from stirring up trouble of course..as if the world hasn't enough problems and trouble as it is!.

Beasty

Please take talk of Russia's war in Ukraine to the relevant thread. Cheerful S you are threadbanned from that thread. Mention it again here and you will be banned from this thread as well

markodaly

Apparently, she is on her way there now from Malaysia.

Count Dracula

I cannot think what is at all unusual with any country's military forces tweeting that they are "ready for war" , that is exactly what they are supposed to be?

All countries use enticing media to embellish their armed forces and to give their citizens a sense of security and raise patriotic sentiment - just look at the British Navy advertisements on UK terrestrial television showing young men and women touring the world and jumping out of Helicopters and cocking their shining weapons ( sorry that was a slip of the tongue ).

It is kind of ironic that Taiwan is probably the world's largest producer of plastic Toy army paraphernalia, designed to encourage our youth into glamorising war, possibly one of the most sinister acts of product placement globally.

The US have pawned Taiwan for years, not so long after they dropped 2 nuclear bombs on their neighbours in the middle of the last century, just to show the rest of us that they can if they want to. It never ceases to amaze me how everyone forgets the simple fact that they annihilated two cities and their inhabitants ( roughly 300,000 people, quite arguably a genocide ) in the space of a week - and then attempt to portray themselves as the modern pioneers and gatekeepers of global justice? Give me a break please.

I would imagine any Tweets raising awareness of the Chinese Military, especially communications in English, are most likely instigated by the CIA as part of any US domestic propaganda policy aimed at their gormless general public, whilst simultaneously attempting to validate their existence as global saviours to anyone left alive on the planet who are gullible enough not to see through them.

I will probably be put on a list somewhere on a dataset in Langley now after sharing my valuable opinion, I reckon classified somewhere between Defcon 2 or 3, with a highlight over my IP address for a local CIA agent to qualify where I live and work at some stage over the next few weeks. If you ever want to meet a CIA spook operating in Ireland I reckon your best bet is to hit Dicey Riley's on Super bowl night, it is an itch they cannot help scratching, Hot Dogs and all. In fairness I reckon the Irish gig is probably considered a handy enough number amongst their agents, a far cry from instigating public unrest in "hostile" 3rd world countries, deemed necessary by a trope of anal, grey suited stooges in Washington DC.

bob mcbob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119417733#Comment_119417733

Ok so what your are saying is that aircraft carriers are incredibly vulnerable and in fact may be coming close to being obsolete.

Maybe you should inform the PLAN

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_aircraft_carrier_programme

timmyntc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119417588#Comment_119417588

If it came to a US-China skirmish then there would be severe sanctions or worse for any member hosting US planes used to strike against China.

Over 25% of all Japanese imports are Chinese for example. There would likely be restrictions on what bases US planes can use to launch strikes

Yurt2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119417733#Comment_119417733

Tankie daydreams. Even if (and it's a big if because we have f*ckall evidence Chinese anti-ship missiles are worth a damn) get anywhere near a carrier strike group outside the first island chain, you're ignoring that the US (and allies) have air and missile assets on land within minutes of any notional flotilla.

Besides the fact that the Taiwanese alone will be sending tens of thousands of PRC amphibious invaders to their deaths all by themselves, the US, Japan etc lie in wait to lay waste to any vessel that crosses the straight median line.

We may as well rip the bandage of right now and let the blowhards in Beijing try to take Taiwan. Teach them the lesson that has been long coming.

Tankies in the West need a wake up call.

Not only is the current security status quo in East Asia the best thing for the global economy and political stability, it will be defended with overwhelming force. People completely overrate the Chinese capacity to project power. Most of their platforms are a couple of decades behind the West, and their airforce in a Taiwanese invasion scenario will be the best comedy you've seen. Tens of thousands of Chinese sailors yipped up on PRC nationalist nonsense will be snuffed out in the first afternoon. It's not going to be a fun day for tankies.

Yurt2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119418588#Comment_119418588

Severe sanctions from China? They don't make anything worth a damn that can't be made in Vietnam or elsewhere. Supply chains containing anything critical are already moving away from the PRC.

Japan will definitively fall on the US side and will likely tear up their pacifist constitution within the day.

They'll do without low-value-add Chinese imports for however many months. Their national security is at stake.

People need to knock their delusions on the head. China will become instantly isolated by neighbours if they are thick enough to try it. And Japan as an active military force will be back. Throw South Korea in the mix as well.

They all play nice with China for mercantilist reasons, but all bets will be off instantly if the tankies on thread get their wish - and if Xi is as stupid as they seemingly hope he is. The Chinese aren't half as economically powerful as people want to believe.

Let it all play out if it must. But it's bad news for the creeps in Zhongnanhai.

weisses

Our Ukranian friend is tracking the flight live

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UY0yUbCdAZw&ab_channel=DenysDavydov

timmyntc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119418563#Comment_119418563

China has imperial aspirations like the US and European countries in the past.

You need aircraft carriers for force projection across the world - only the most advanced & heavily armed powers can compete against multiple aircraft carriers.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119418631#Comment_119418631

The only delusion here is yourself harping on about "tankies" and about to the blow the beans over the thought of dead soldiers. And the idea that all chinese imports are "low-value" and can be done without for however many months, lol. Imports from China are no longer just the plastic toys from the 90s. You'd be doing well to find anything remotely technical nowadays without chinese components in the supply chain.

Yurt2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119418826#Comment_119418826

The largest component of Japanese imports from China are white goods like washing machines (from Japanese companies I might add). Japan is many things, but they are not thick. Mrs Toyama in Kobe will live without her new dishwasher for a year as manufacturing is moved to Indonesia.

The US has enough firepower in Guam and Okinawa to end any PRC flotilla many times over, they don't need carriers to fillet China in this circumstance. An American airman in Kadena could put on an oven pizza, hop in the F35 cockpit, sink a Chinese frigate and be back to eat the pizza before it's burned.

And any carrier group will be out of range running sorties in any case

Tankies need a wake-up call. I say these things because it's reality. Chinese hyped up Playstation weapons won't move the dial. The hypersonic missile tankies are spoofing themselves over missed it's target by over a hundred miles when last tested.

The US, if they were minded, would make short work of a PRC invasion attempt. They may lose a few airmen and vessels, but many tens of thousands of Chinese will have a lungfull of seawater before the sun goes down.

It's time to put down the PlayStation controller and come into reality (as well as take a look at what Japan imports from China. Hint: it's overwhelmingly low-value goods).

timmyntc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119418884#Comment_119418884

yes yes, its all the tankies, US reigns supreme, home in time for christmas, etc etc.

Same delusional military nonsense we were hearing about Ukraine.

What really matters here, is that the US still recognises the one china policy, and that Taiwan is Chinese clay. If they were to deviate from this, China as the single largest holder of US debt, could make it quite painful for them. For Taiwan itself, the Chinese have enough of a navy to blockade the island nation.

The only people who really could get involved is the US - unlikely theyll have the appetite for it. More than likely theyd try and supply the Taiwanese if it came to it, but much harder to get weapons into a blockaded island than through a land border like Ukraine.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119418025#Comment_119418025

I'm not so sure that the Chinese attitude to the lives of its citizens ( or any other Country's Citizens either) causes them to worry overmuch, if it does come to war.

There's a certain callousness to Chinese culture regarding the value of life. You can see similar in India, so it's likely due to the massive populations, and the range of historical famines they both suffered through. In any case, I seem to remember Mao saying he wouldn't hesitate to sacrifice half the population if it meant achieving his goals. Xi and the remainder of the upper CCP would be similar, as they're so removed from the way the average poor person in China lives.

As for Chinese people themselves, while on a daily or normal basis, there's little concern over the lives of others.. if a war was to result in large casualties, I suspect we'd see actual outrage over the losses.

TBH I suspect their economic and social woes will restrain them from doing anything. The corruption, the banks closing, the loss of savings for normal people, the property bubble, etc all contribute to a very flimsy stability within Chinese society, and they are a people who love to form mobs.. and with the police/army, typically, drawn from the poor I doubt that the CCP want to test their loyalty, especially after some police districts sided with protestors during covid.

Nah. I don't see China committing to war.. and if they did, their society would implode rather quickly.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119418910#Comment_119418910

China as the single largest holder of US debt, could make it quite painful for them

The US could easily renege on such debts, or hold them frozen until the crisis is finished. The US has a range of options that are not generally available to other nations. I wouldn't be holding such debt as being terribly important.

As for Taiwan, the US has always held the independence of Taiwan as being sacred. Naturally enough as it provides them with a base of operations so close to the Chinese mainland. In any case, Taiwan has been preparing for war with China for 50 years, and they're more than capable of holding out. Also, to have a blockade, China would need to commit the ships and aircraft to reinforce the blockade, making them incredibly vulnerable to attacks from US (or allied) assets throughout SE Asia. Any such blockade would destroy the Chinese surface fleet rather quickly, in addition to their air commitment. Losses that would be extremely expensive and difficult to replace.

You have rather unrealistic viewpoints on both China, and the situation in the South China sea..

timmyntc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119418974#Comment_119418974

If the US consider Taiwanese independence sacred, then why do they publicly affirm China's right to Taiwan clay, and more importantly, why have they been attempting to onshore semiconductor operations on US soil and away from Taiwan as of late? Not exactly a vote of confidence for Taiwanese sovereignty in the future.

Also remember the US made quite a furore over Hong Kong's autonomy and democratic rule, when China all but stomped that out there was a few stern statements from the US and then the world moved on. The US do not have the appetite to defend Taiwan, so long as they have time to get their assets out of the island they could let it sink into the ocean

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119419019#Comment_119419019

The physical safety of semiconductor production facilities, and therefore their supply, and Taiwanese "independence" as you put it, are two entirely different things. It's a lot easier for chinese weapons to destroy semiconductor facilities less than 200km from their shores than in the US. It remains a lot more difficult for chinese military forces to reach the island of Taiwan to destroy it's "independence".

Yurt2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119418910#Comment_119418910

Now you are entering a paralell univserse talking about the PRC being able to enforce a blokcade of Taiwan during wartime. They do not have the capacity for a blue water navy, and what little of their navy is left after Taiwan is done with it is easy pickings for the US/Japan/Australia/anyone else who wants to get involved - and all of this within the first island chain, which is where they will be staying and drowning.

The fact you thought for a second that Japan is not in total lockstep with the US on Taiwan and would keep their head down tells me you're spoofing and fantasising as you go along. Every Japanese governement since the 80s has made it clear that Taiwan is an existential issue for them.

I won't even get into the US debt matter, the RMB operates a floating peg with the USD, and would become toilet paper overnight like the rouble. The US would only love to welch on that debt and let the Chinese economy burn if they went after Taiwan.

This may surprise you, but the people who run this stuff in the background in the US are no dummies - anyone actually cheerleading China (low key or not) is going to be dissapointed in the first instance, and should book an appointment for a brain scan to ceck for cysts in their skull. Taiwan is a foreign policy issue unusual in that it has had bipartisan support for decades. Every country in the region that matters a damn is on the same page as well.

Tankies can keep dreaming.

Overheal

Oh such big manhood energy

Look out, neighbor, I almost parked my cars on your lawn. Oooh, better freak out. (They don't look like they're in battle formations)

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119419019#Comment_119419019

If the US consider Taiwanese independence sacred, then why do they publicly affirm China's right to Taiwan clay, and more importantly, why have they been attempting to onshore semiconductor operations on US soil and away from Taiwan as of late? Not exactly a vote of confidence for Taiwanese sovereignty in the future.

The US has repeatedly said that they stand by Taiwanese independence. If your scenario was even remotely true, US military forces would have been completely removed from Taiwan, to prevent any chance that China might "accidently" target them during a conflict.

As for your "more importantly".. how is that more important? In any case, it sound economic sense to move such operations out of Asia, and have their own domestic industry capable of providing what they need. For years now, since covid, people have been talking about the weaknesses of depending on China for necessary industry, but the same applies to Taiwan. You're going to find the US seeking to limit it's reliance on other nations, especially a reliance that affects their own national security.

Also remember the US made quite a furore over Hong Kong's autonomy and democratic rule, when China all but stomped that out there was a few stern statements from the US and then the world moved on. The US do not have the appetite to defend Taiwan, so long as they have time to get their assets out of the island they could let it sink into the ocean

HK is a completely different scenario, and the US could never have guaranteed their independence. HK was to return to Chinese control due to international legal agreements.

As for the US appetite, defending Taiwan would be the "good fight" that they've been wanting for decades. I have American friends who have served, and wouldn't hesitate to sign up again if it meant fighting for Taiwan's independence. The US has been searching for "a cause" after the dodgy motivations of their past conflicts. In any case, the US wants China humbled and knocked off it's pedestal, and a war with Taiwan would provide the best opportunity to do just that, due to the range of allies they would gain in the Asian region. It's a win win for them.

timmyntc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119419377#Comment_119419377

In an era of increased globalisation up until very very recently (i.e. post covid), onshoring manufacturing of anything never made economic sense in the US - it was only done for strategic reasons. Being confident of an independent Taiwan flies in the face of those decisions

Markus Antonius

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119409916#Comment_119409916

When you mentioned "they are our adversaries, not our partners" you are clearly alluding to Trump's desire to pursue trade deals rather than war with China (Trump even hinted at trade deal with North Korea for Christ's sake, which god forbid, may lead to improved lives of those who live there). But no, anything "Orange man did = bad" in your eyes.

You have the same typical mindset of democrat/liberal/anti-Trumpers in the US - a hatred of their own nation and an obsession with interfering with and turning every other country into a worse sh*thole than it already is.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119419428#Comment_119419428

In an era of increased globalisation up until very very recently

You contradict yourself.

Regardless, the simple point is that the US will want all strategic needs to be provided either within US territories, or held by close allies. ie. Europe. Asia remains too risky an area to leave manufacturing or supply of assets associated with their own national security (and that of their Arms industry). The sanctions against Russia has shown just how vulnerable a country can be when such technologies produced abroad, are no longer easily supplied.

As for an independent Taiwan, the Taiwan Relations Act and a number of comments made by Biden relatively recently, all point to a firm position of US intervention against Chinese hostility. That might change whenever someone replaces Biden, but the policy from American administrations has been consistent on Taiwan. Their statements have been vague, but they've always recommitted military assets to the region, and the supply of military hardware both in sales, but also the stationing of hardware both in Taiwan, but also in Korea/Japan.

timmyntc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119419611#Comment_119419611

No contradiction - the focus has been offshoring and increased globalization until post pandemic when it showed up the flaws in Just-in-time manufacturing and supply chains.

The process of onshoring semiconductor manufacturing has been going on before the pandemic.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119419588#Comment_119419588

Oo look at Freud. Goodbye.

Pelosi has landed.

China now reminds me of the nursery rhyme, The Grand Old Duke of York 😀

TheValeyard

She's right to visit. The world needs to stand up to China and its bullyboy tactics, concentration camps, crackdown on Hong Kong, constant lies and deceit, Covid cover up, and dictatorship regime.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119419681#Comment_119419681

It's why the world needs the US, can imagine EU leaders on the phone to xi pleading to let them visit.

TheValeyard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119419710#Comment_119419710

US are no saints either. I remember the George W years well with horror and the Iraq War was one massive war crime. But I'd take USA any day over China.

In this instance the US is right to visit. Bullies need to be stood up too. China has a despotic regime and the world needs to mvoe away from their cheaply made products. For environmental reasons and we shouldnt be funding a government like that.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119419729#Comment_119419729

That's the reality of our world, I'll pick the US over russia/china any day of the week and twice on Sundays.

I don't disagree with getting rid of Saddam, but they went in for the wrong reasons under false pretenses and had no plan, so no wonder it all went to sh1t.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119419651#Comment_119419651

"CHINA FOREIGN MINISTRY: THOSE WHO PLAY WITH FIRE WILL PERISH BY IT"

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119419738#Comment_119419738

As someone said, in that case china should take it's own advice and put down the matches.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119419773#Comment_119419773

Doesn't look like they heard you...

Bloomberg on Twitter: "BREAKING: China announces military drills encircling Taiwan from Aug. 4-7 https://t.co/oHcvcewOKK https://t.co/a7TDjBiUc5" / Twitter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119419812#Comment_119419812

Looks fairly on message thus far, wake me when they actually invade somewhere or shoot at something other than seagulls.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119416773#Comment_119416773

TheValeyard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119419824#Comment_119419824

I'm okay with the seagull shooting thing. Those guys stole my chips!

markodaly

https://twitter.com/thehill/status/1554485691052163072

Touchdown

Expect a lot of bluster from the CCP and their lackeys and the edgelords that populate certain parts of the internet.

Drumpot

The cynic in me thinks there’s no coincidence of a successful drone strike against an enemy of the USA , the same day as Pelosi is going Taiwan under a cloud of condemnation from China.

After what happened with Ukraine and Russia (nobody thought Russia would invade) I hope calmer heads prevail in this scenario. These are dangerous times.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119419956#Comment_119419956

Where does this "nobody thought russia would invade" rubbish come from. Anyone paying attention knew putrid was ordering his army to invade.

Overheal

The less-MAGA half of the Republican Senate have issued statements of support for the Speakers visit, saying it is consistent with the One China diplomatic Policy the Congress has adopted.

https://www.mediaite.com/politics/mitch-mcconnell-and-25-other-republicans-issue-statement-supporting-nancy-pelosis-trip-to-taiwan/

Dan Sullivan (R-AK)

Mitch McConnell (R-KY)

John Thune (R-SD)

Jim Inhofe (R-OK)

Jim Risch (R-ID)

Roy Blunt (R-MO)

John Cornyn (R-TX)

John Barrasso (R-WY)

Kevin Cramer (R-ND)

Ben Sasse (R-NE)

Marsha Blackburn (R-TN)

Thom Tillis (R-NC)

Tommy Tuberville (R-AL)

Steve Daines (R-MT)

Susan Collins (R-ME)

Deb Fischer (R-NE)

Todd Young (R-IN)

Joni Ernst (R-IA)

Rob Portman (R-OH)

Shelley Moore Capito (R-WV)

Mike Crapo (R-ID)

Richard Burr (R-NC)

John Boozman (R-AR)

Tim Scott (R-SC)

Chuck Grassley (R-IA)

Pat Toomey (R-PA)

Ubbquittious

It will be amusing to see the Poohbear getting very riled up over this