Bray Air Show - DART Doors forced open following delays and discomfort.

trellheim

People forcing doors open and marching down to the station. https://twitter.com/Pipalicious/status/1551212928338214913

I.E. on stop . Whoa

Jamie2k9

Another Sunday event and another chaotic day on the DART with people having to take matters into there own hand. It was Malahide a fwe weeks ago.

https://twitter.com/IrishRail/status/1551207292028293120

https://twitter.com/nolzkelly/status/1551218569014394881

While peple shouldn't exit the train there, IE failed to plan with insufficent capacity yet again. A day for a 10 minute schedule when its actually needed but not provided...

The railway regulator needs to step in becasue IE will not sort out the issues.

cheese sandwich

Disgraceful from Irish Rail, this happens every time the air show is on but they never learn.

I wouldn’t go near Bray on either the train or the roads on this day, it’s always a disaster

pjcb

and all Irish rail do in response is spin and slander its customers, they are escapees from heat traps not trespassers

namloc1980

What the hell is going on there??

trellheim

service south of Dalkey on stop by the look of it - due to resume at 1700 according to IE twitter https://twitter.com/IrishRail/status/1551207292028293120

devnull

Looks like passengers on some trains were close to passing out and having panic attacks from what is being reported so forced the doors open out of sheer panic. Seems that information was a bit sketchy from what I have read about as well.

Never good to be on the railway line but people are rarely rational when they are having a panic attack or cramped with no fresh air in warm weather. Reports on twitter suggest people were held for 30+ minutes outside Bray station with increasing temperature with no air-conditioning working and no windows to open.

Irish Rail said this afternoon it had no reports of any issues with air conditioning.

Iarnród Éireann said its trains have air conditioning or openable windows and it has had no reports of any issues with either.

Irish Rail, earlier tweeted the following, stating that control had alerted drivers of the issues.

https://twitter.com/IrishRail/status/1551208774953738246

mikeybhoy

What was causing the delay in the first place? Going to the Bray airshow sounds like my idea of hell don't know why you'd be bothered going to that with all the crowds and traffic noticed the m50 southbound was bumper to bumper too.

devnull

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119381184#Comment_119381184

From what I've heard there was congestion at Bray station which resulted in one train being at the platform for a fair bit longer than it should have been, which caused knock on delays for other trains having to wait for a platform to become available.

Princess Calla

There's another active thread on this topic it has a Twitter link stating 45mins delay and shows a lot of families with very young children walking along the tracks and that the children needed to pee.

devnull

Threads Merged

Moderator

PokeHerKing

Saw videos of people breaking windows on trains in Belgium during the week for similar reasons.

Not excusing Irish rail but its not uniquely Irish either.

Atlantic Dawn

Do drivers have monitoring systems in the cabs to tell them what temperature it is in each carriage? They shouldn't be running carriages with no functioning AC where windows do not open, this is a relatively common occurance and I've experienced it before, very unpleasant in rush hour.

Police break windows of cars with dogs locked in them on hot days, I'd support someone smashing a window or forcibly opening the door on the DART if there's no opening windows with the weather that was there today.

horsebox1977

I was on DART heading into town and the heat in the carriage was unbearable, this was back in May, I jumped off and went into the next carriage and the AC was on and much more comfortable. I could only imagine how bad it was heading out to Bray in this heat.

tnegun

It was the same after the hurling final back to Maynooth packed carriages with no working A/c the only saving was the windows opened and the train wasn't delayed/held much. Even with that several people were in distress and left the train at Clonsilla to get some air.

devnull

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119381291#Comment_119381291

Unfortunately on the hottest days of the summer if I see a 8600 with no windows coming in to the station that is packed like sardines I try and give it a miss if I can because I have been in that position before in some not so nice conditions. At least on an 8100 you can crack open a few windows which is not an option on the newer stock.

Barry Kenny meanwhile has now said that passengers forced the doors open after 5 and a half minutes.

“Unfortunately, the train was waiting for 5 and a half minutes when a small group forced open the doors and went on to the track. This meant that trains couldn’t move in either direction, obviously, because they were on the track,

pjcb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119381322#Comment_119381322

how long were they on the train previous to that?

Charles Babbage

It is fine to talk of "no problems" with airconditioning, but the evidence suggests otherwise. Public transport should have both temperature and CO2 monitors and a strict requirement to keep these within limits, especially in a pandemic. "we thought it was OK" is not acceptable.

I very much doubt if the passengers were blocking the track. Trains from Bray could have proceeded past this point at 5kph and allowed this train proceed.

cheese sandwich

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119381322#Comment_119381322

The newer carriages without windows are very unpleasant on a hot day. The air con either seems to be too cold or completely broken

Jizique

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058255866/bray-air-show-dart-doors-forced-open-following-delays-and-discomfort

Airshow when we are planning to cull 30% of our cattle? I really think our priorities are wrong.

devnull

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119381344#Comment_119381344

Irish Rail's own twitter account established at 3.12pm that there were reports of issues with air-conditioning that had been passed from central control to the drivers of the trains involved.

It's frustrating to see the media just parrot the Irish Rail PR line of there being no reports of air-conditioning issues when the companies own official twitter account acknowledged there were reports almost 3 hours ago.

Jamie2k9

If Bray was congested the service should have been held in Shankill until the line was clear in Bray (would not have delayed trains behind) There was no valid reason leaving the service proceed and its something IE have implemented for disruption on Intercity services over recent years.

Frequancy was poor with 15-20 minute gaps (mostly 20). Non Stopping ex Connolly (if meeting connecting Maynooth / Dundalk) or extend the Diseals to Bray non stop.

While passengers were irational, planning was non existent for this event.

Don't they say you will never get hold of managment on a Sunday...

mikeybhoy

Heard there were problems with buses not operating too. 145 is only every 20 mins on a Sunday so maybe would've been better off having this event on a Saturday and DART frequency is better too. Saw a picture of a Go-Ahead abandoned in a Cul de Sac in Palermo wonder what that was all about.

I've heard reports that the DART was only stopped for about 5 mins before people forced the doors open which seems poor. I'd understand if was stopped for 15-20 mins but after 5 mins is poor. I've been on a few Darts that were held in Bray for 5-10 mins before the station.

It'l was absolutely lethal heat in a sardine packed carraige with no air con or windows on the service before which I was on. People were on the verge of passing out. Wasn't one but surprised to hear this happened.

stephenjmcd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119381504#Comment_119381504

Buses are running, no issues with them it's just to / from the dart station but only a normal Sunday service, no extras on.

Pretty sure there's never been extra buses on for the Airshow, it's usually darts that are focused on & they just completely fell apart today

devnull

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119381504#Comment_119381504

Irish Rail have indeed said that the DART was only stopped for just over five minutes, but there are many more accounts from passengers on social media suggesting that they were waiting much longer than that.

So in reality one of three things must have happened

• Scores of passengers on social media are hugely exaggerating
• Irish Rail have made an error with their statement.
• There was more than one train where the doors were forced open

devnull

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119381601#Comment_119381601

The latest Irish Rail statement as featured on TheJournal.ie, continues to maintain that there were no problems with air-conditioning, despite Irish Rail themselves acknowledging the reports via twitter.

Our DARTS either have aircon or openable windows, and we have no reports of issues with either. A very busy train stopped on the line on a warm day can feel warm regardless, but again, forcing open doors only means that if any customer was experiencing issues, it delayed any assistance, as there are extensive ambulance and medical personnel in the Bray Station area as part of arrangements for the Air Show.

Unfortunately Ireland has always been blighted by poor quality journalism in the print, broadcast and online media. The reporting from most outlets in general shows very little in terms of quality fact-checking and research and mostly consists of publications just repeating what they have been told.

There was no air conditioning and windows wouldn't open on some carraiges. IR are lying through their teeth and have the PR machine depoyed.

trellheim

looks as if lots of people were wandering across the level crossing as well so it took time to get it closed the LC at Bray

mikeybhoy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119381686#Comment_119381686

Stupid opening the LC at all on a day like today. Far easier and safer to leave it closed for the entire day.

It appears that Bray station does not have the physical capacity for the rate of turnarounds that needed to occur, so trains forced to wait long periods in a queue to get in. I didn’t attend air show today as I guessed it would be a sh1t show as in previous years the show was more or less split up into the two weekend days. Bray was relatively quiet yesterday as not much was happening apart from helicopter rides, which I availed of.

In previous years I attended on either Saturday or Sunday crowds were not quite as big as today, there was good marshalling at Bray station and trains were not delayed more than 10 or 15 minutes between Shankill and Bray.

Maybe if trains were told at stations instead of between them it might have allowed people to decide to get off safely if they felt train was getting really too crowded. They could then take a later train or maybe view air show from a different vantage point like Shankill, Killiney or Dalkey.

There comes a point where capacity on any line cannot be exceeded, and if there is such a focussed demand for too many people to want to get to the one place by the one means at the one time, then something gives way. I think the show needed to be spread over the two days to cope with demand, and post lockdown there is huge demand to travel & attend events of all kinds.

Regarding air conditioning, my recall was that Dublin public transport used to have better air conditioning, eg when I used to step on board the Luas I was always greeted by a refreshing cool breeze, in tune with the prevailing climatic conditions. I’m more recent times of resuming travel on Luas I observed this relative lack of air conditioning and I don’t know whether it is down to economics/green policy (which I suspect it is) or if it is connected with Covid measures.

I presume there are CCTV cameras where doors are visible and it can be seen who was initially responsible for opening doors. As far as I know there is a very hefty fine for causing train to stop unless a genuine emergency situation is taking place. Now defining the validity of that emergency scenario is another thing.

I’m wondering if drivers could get a snapshot of what might be brewing up in carriages at certain times, like this, they would be in a better position to tailor communication. Not sure if drivers have means if determining, when needed, what might be going on behind.

devnull

Seems someone has challenged Irish Rail on the discrepancies between what has been posted on social media versus what has appeared in their media statements about air-conditioning issues.

https://twitter.com/IrishRail/status/1551271953020977152

It seems the original tweeter has now challenged Irish Rail back

https://twitter.com/DublinTransport/status/1551274126328881152

Del2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119381797#Comment_119381797

They can't get maintenance staff so they are limping along with 18 year old vehicles, a tram with no air con is better than no tram. I assume IE are having the same issues with staff and their lack of air con.

stephenjmcd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119381835#Comment_119381835

Doubt it, they tweeted earlier saying central control had checked with all drivers.

Tweeted again a few mins ago saying no issue when checked with drivers.

https://twitter.com/IrishRail/status/1551276477651599362?t=nAZtPUiVolsdqXnaoPA2hA&s=19

Doubling down saying it was the first DART delayed by 5 mins outside bray that caused the issues

https://twitter.com/IrishRail/status/1551275790679134208?t=w9GGi9CBPLMeL9nEf4QbFg&s=19

Pinch Flat

7.45pm and just arrived on tte dart at dun laoghaire - the show finished at 5pm. Liquid swishing around my feet smells like fresh piss. Absolute mess.train down was unsafely packed- people on wheel chairs, prams and young kids in sweltering heat with people continually trying to pack on the already packed trains. I'll be driving next year. Much prefer to be struck in my air conditioned car in the m50 than this mess.

devnull

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119381859#Comment_119381859

I think the point that the original tweeter was making, was that Irish Rail specifically said to the media that nobody reported air-conditioning issues t when many customers were reporting them to Irish Rail and their own twitter account acknowledged there had been reports of issues.

It seems that the person on Irish Rail social media has now rowed back a little on their words after being pointed out the above, when they have now seemingly suggested their own tweet perhaps could have been better worded to avoid the confusion.

The use of the word air con issues may not have been the best option on my behalf.

What does a driver have to check how well the air-con is performing? Do they have monitoring for every carriage in their train or do they just decide that as it's switched on it must be working well with no actual way to tell if it is or not?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119381932#Comment_119381932

Carriage thermometers with feedback circuit to driver would be the only way to check the environment on each carriage.

mikeybhoy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119381797#Comment_119381797

Seriously though for how many days of the year is air conditioning nessecary on Dublin public transport. I can definitely see the argument for it in place like London where it's much hotter and more crowded than Dublin.

I was stuck on a train in Italy for 3 hours with no air conditioning in 35 degree heat not the most pleasant but myself and everyone else on the train survived. It was only 23 degrees today.

namloc1980

This episode also further enforces the perception that public transport in Ireland is a complete disaster.

suilegorma

I was on a train out of town today and there were no staff at all at any stations. I ended up getting to Bray and having to back track as the train ran direct to Bray and there were at least a dozen staff on the city side of the station. At every stop from Tara until Dalkey where it ran direct people were trying to shove on despite the carriage being full and telling them there was a train coming behind. Grown adults with absolutely no common sense or manners or even a basic understanding of safety. Each station south of the city should have had IR staff monitoring the stops and stopping overcrowding at the platforms. The carriages were hot and stuffy so even though the air temp was 23 it was much warmer inside each carriage. Absolutely not excusing the opening of doors but it was a very challenging journey and the while thing could very easily have been prevented. My kids were able to come up with preventative solutions when I eventually got home and filled them in so how IR couldn't is beyond me !

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119381864#Comment_119381864

There’s no parking though.

Pinch Flat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119382601#Comment_119382601

There is. You can book it in advance.

Summer2020

I think it's fair to say the M50 will be gridlock next year for this with everyone avoiding the dart. Public transport in this country is a bad joke , yet at every turn the local councils are trying to restrict car movement and access.

bikeman1

Why the hell did both trains out and back to Bray today that I travelled on were 6 carriages instead of 8? Loads of spare 8100s in Fairview? That is inexcusable.

I hope the prosecute those idiots who opened the door and made a mess into a disaster.

I for one was glad they were trying to clear the pax off the platform before allowing the next full train in, otherwise there would have been a crush.

The reality is if the doors were not opened, we could have been looking at a serious medical situation or worse this afternoon. It was an act of desperation to open them and not just some lawless scrotes doing it for kicks.

Dravokivich

Ive no qualms with being critical of irish rail when I see them failing and its affect us big.

But I was on the first train people disembarked from. Calling it Irish Rails fault, is simply due to people who aren't used to how sections and line switching works. We were waiting for no more than 10 minutes for a train to leave and clear the line from platform 1. So ours could pull into it. As the following train needed to use platform 2.

People got hysterical, pulled open the doors and hopped out. Once they did there was no sense of relief from "over crowding" or being to hot in the train, they were all laughing and congratulating themselves on what the did. The knock on affect was everything else had to stop for them. They were completely oblivious to it. The rest of it was a matter of sheep following others. The more they saw leave the train, the more got off.

Eventually i was instructed to leave too. No more than 200 metres down the line was the train we were yielding for.

This is the reason everyone else got stuck on other trains. It was the people who just wouldn't wait becuase they were unfamiliar with using trains.

Dravokivich

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119382691#Comment_119382691

The people who caused the problem, wouldn't be driving.

Jamie2k9

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119382708#Comment_119382708

There will be no action taken against them because IE need this fallout to go away.