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Bray Air Show - DART Doors forced open following delays and discomfort.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,080 ✭✭✭mikeybhoy


    There are lifts in the DART station which can be used they can go around by Albert Walk which is narrow enough but they could also go around by Adelaide Road if that's unsuitable. The stewards could direct people around this way if the bridge gets too busy so it's like there's no alternatives.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,111 ✭✭✭Ger Roe


    Where is the 100 meters alternative option for seafront access?.

    Anyway, if we get into a debate about how much inconvenience we can inflict on elderly, disabled etc, then we will be in for a bumpy ride. Apart from the absolute fact that the foot bridge is a far more dangerous crossing option if it was ever used as a mass movement alternative. (so much so, that it never will be).

    Those two factors are main considerations as to why the level crossing can not be closed for pedestrian access on such occasions.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,540 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    "Where is the 100 meters alternative option for seafront access?."

    Yes, Albert Avenue, literally goes under the other end of the platform.

    I would argue that delaying and complicating trains getting in and out of Bray would "inflict" more inconvenience on elderly and disabled people then an extra 100 meters. Also I'd argue that the extremely large groups of people squeezed in front of the closed crossing gates would have been far less "comfortable" for elderly and disabled people then just heading down Albert Avenue, directed by stewards.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,540 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    "I think by my comment earlier it was pretty clear that I do not believe that live info is on the TFI app or Google maps for either LUAS or Irish Rail, hence I use their own apps and website."

    But that is what I'm getting at, this simply isn't good enough, there is no technical reason why live info shouldn't be available on all apps and screens. Frankly all screens and apps should be running off the same real-time info feed.

    What I'm saying this is Irish Rail / NTA mess.

    I actually had an interesting experience with buses today. The RTPI screen was saying that two 16's were coming, followed by a 1 a few minutes later. The TFI app on the other hand said the 1 was coming, followed by 16 a few minutes later. The App was right and the screen was wrong, the 1 turned up first as predicted by the app, while there was no sign of a 16 down the road



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,540 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    Aha and I go looking and it turns out that the NTA are about to rollout a new GTFS Realtime service that sounds like it will fix these exact issues.

    It turns out that while realtime data is currently available for Dublin Bus, Go Ahead and Bus Eireann, it currently isn't available with Luas or Irish Rail! However this will change with the upcoming launch of the new service and thus realtime info for rail and Luas should be avilable in Google Maps, etc. in a few months, finally!




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  • Registered Users Posts: 17,579 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    I’m not disagreeing with any of that.

    You seemed to think I was, but I’m not.

    I was asked what to use and gave clear advice above about which apps to use based on my own knowledge and experience.

    BUT speaking personally, I would still double check platform numbers in any station that I was in, no matter where it was, with live screens rather than trust that the link to Google maps was working. Late platform changes can happen and sometimes wires get crossed. That’s purely my preference.

    As far as Dublin City buses are concerned I use the live map on the TFI app a fair bit too nowadays to double check where the bus actually is back along the route.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,838 ✭✭✭jeffk


    Found this app, assume early access is alpha or into beta





  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,540 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    See my above comment on real time data coming soon for Irish Rail and Luas.

    "As far as Dublin City buses are concerned I use the live map on the TFI app a fair bit too nowadays to double check where the bus actually is back along the route."

    BTW looks like this data on the bus location is also coming soon to this new real time feed from the NTA, so the same data should soon be available in other apps too like Google Maps and Moovit, great.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,540 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    "Found this app, assume early access is alpha or into beta"

    Yes, this most likely uses the new real time interface.

    BTW you mentioned Moovit earlier, excellent app, I do like it, but note it uses the same data feed that Google Maps and other apps use. So until they update to the new feed, it won't have real time Rail and Luas data either.



  • Registered Users Posts: 322 ✭✭pjcb


    whats the max occupancy of those carriages?



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  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,899 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Irish Rail claim there is no max whenever people claim something is crowded beyond safety... think its about 120 a car in reality.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,675 ✭✭✭✭Jamie2k9


    Rail Accident Investgation Unit appear to have opened an official investgation.

    "IÉ impromptu evacuations of passengers from DART trains, Bray, 24th July 2022"



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,675 ✭✭✭✭Jamie2k9


    https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40958921.html

    A garda insisted that the doors of a DART train stranded on the day of the Bray Air Show be opened with passengers inside already “distressed”.

    A timeline of the events – which brought chaos to transport services – revealed that it took just six and a half minutes before the first passenger forced the doors of a train open after it came to a stop in sweltering conditions.

    It explained how after one train came to a stop on the train line, both the gardaí and coast guard had requested the doors be opened so passengers could be evacuated.

    Seven minutes later, the driver reported that a garda sergeant at the scene now “insists that doors should be opened” to let passengers disembark.

    Another entry in the timeline said many on board were being evacuated through a local golf course; however, a “large group of trespassers” were moving north along the train line towards Shankill in South Dublin.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,135 ✭✭✭p_haugh


    The RTE documentary aired tonight, with a section of it covering the events of the Bray Air show

    https://www.rte.ie/player/movie/the-dart-no-ordinary-day-e1/340661800340



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,723 ✭✭✭Tow


    Looks like the lawyers got it pulled from the RTE Player this morning.

    When is the money (including lost growth) Michael Noonan took in the Pension Levy going to be paid back?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,135 ✭✭✭p_haugh


    Weird, it still seems to be available on sky at least



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,566 ✭✭✭Beta Ray Bill


    I have heard (from a very reliable source) that basically every driver for the DART has put in for days off around the time of the gigs in Malahide and the Bray airshow.

    GAS!



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,604 ✭✭✭Tenzor07


    Who can blame them for that? Trying to do their job safely on a railway system originally designed back in Victorian times would be almost impossible as we saw...



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,590 ✭✭✭SteM


    ..



  • Registered Users Posts: 34,170 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Yes, the railway alignment has been around since Victorian times but I fail to see how that's at all relevant.

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,791 ✭✭✭thomasj




  • Registered Users Posts: 2,023 ✭✭✭Glaceon


    It's back up now. I wonder if an offending part has been removed?



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,869 ✭✭✭trellheim


    the air show bits are still there



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,566 ✭✭✭Beta Ray Bill


    No one! I'd do the same!

    Do we think now that the standard operating procedure for Joe Public is that: If the train is stopped for more than 6 minutes and it's fairly full, then the correct thing to do is force open the doors?



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,604 ✭✭✭Tenzor07


    I was on a train that got stuck in place without power/aircon in August(Italy) and was so hot that I had to go change my clothes due to sweat, thankfully we could get off the train to try and cool down a bit while they fixed the fault... I can only imagine the panic of being on a packed train with kids/old people etc...



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,259 ✭✭✭markpb


    Would it be possible for Irish Rail to put customer service staff on the trains on those days to communicate with customers? Or just make sure the drivers PA system actually works, is possible to understand and is used frequently. Bonus points if it’s used to remind people of the penalties for misuse.

    30 seconds is the timeline for a delay on the Tube before drivers have to communicate with passengers. It’s even less on the Disney Monorail - drivers there communicate delays as soon as they see a Yellow warning. Of course, they have the advantage that no one is going to willingly open the doors between stations!



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,039 ✭✭✭Hilly Bill


    The pa system is sufficient. Hardly anyone listens to it anyway especially those with ear phones in. Maybe it's a plan to hold a train in Shankill or the new one in woodbrook if that's closer until the platform clears in bray . Pointless putting staff on a train who won't get the info relaid to them quicker than the driver and wouldn't be able to walk through a packed train.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,135 ✭✭✭p_haugh


    They're slowly adding led screens to the existing fleet (and will be part of the incoming dart fleet), so they would also be able to repeatedly display text announcements of delays etc. on these for those not hearing the driver announcemnt.



  • Registered Users Posts: 34,170 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Great but will they be used effectively?

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,135 ✭✭✭p_haugh


    One would hope, but you can never know with Irish rail



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