Andor [Disney+]

TheIrishGrover

Don't they have something like 10K years of history? I know that's a silly number that really means nothing but you could have a story set immediately after Jedi. After the death of The Emperor? Investigate the power vacuum that this created. What happens to the average everyday Joe-Stormtroper? We know they are still around. We know The Empire is still around. Certainly on the fringes. But what happened on Couresant? Just cos some cyborg chucks an auld geezer down a shaft does not mean that everything is smooth sailing. This was investigated briefly in the second sequel and then ignored like everything else. But I'd like to see that. a post-Empire political show. And how they handled (Or didn't) the New Order arising. How does one go from being an in-the-trenches rebel leader to politician? How does one move on from being a (Major or minor) cog in The Empire's wheel to a post Empire galaxy?

Maybe How does an unassumingly-immortal droid perceive the rise and fall of The Empire and the rie and fall of The Republic from a distance?

johnny_ultimate

I like The Mandalorian (season one at least) but it's very much a sort of 90s/00s era 'story of the week' type of show just with a big budget and Star Wars aesthetics. And that's absolutely fine, but I don't think it has gone beyond 'that was pretty enjoyable' for the most part (one or two particularly strong episodes aside). But I think it got much worse when it started all the fan-servicey stuff in season two, and it became apparent it was just being used as a launching pad for a half dozen spin-offs. Andor is the first show that hasn't felt weighed down by the series' past.

I know it's easy to say 'they have millennia of history to draw on!', especially as the shows and films have largely taken place within a very limited period of time. I do agree they've limited themselves, but I do also sympathise with creators in this respect - the further you depart from the familiar iconography and characters and places, the harder sell it is to both Disney and audiences. And while Andor is maybe the first show or film to properly drop a lot of the usual Star Wars flair to quite thrilling effect, it still does have familiar faces and general adjacency to the films. Hopefully it is seen as a creative model for the future - although, ominously, it's apparently the least popular of the SW shows so far 🙃

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119845095#Comment_119845095

I'd settle for some form of reset to the Post-Jedi era and JJ Abram's inane "let's blow up the New Republic with the super-duper Death Star PLanet", and the we see the Republic reorient itself in the wake of that attack. As you say, adjusting themselves to the sudden threat of the New Order.

One of the few things, albeit played for laughs, from Solo that I've repeatedly found myself returnign to is Droid's Rights. Like, it's really Effed up that this is a univserse with apparently sentient and sapient Robots - yet everyone almost universally treats them like dogshít. And they take it! It's a bit cliché but some kind of Droid uprising seems more than a little earned at this stage, or at least some degree of rights for these long-suffering bots.

Tony EH

Thing is, they're limiting themselves to what they figure will sell. So far, Disney have seen a huge (and quite justified) backlash against their own sequel era, which was an unmitigated disaster and the Old Republic stuff has only ever appealed to a certain quarter of fans.

It's the Imperial period that is the most enticing and it's obvious that Disney are loath to stray too far beyond it. Nobody gives a toss about the New Republic or the First Order period, because it was absolute shite, and the Clone Wars period of the prequels/cartoons was a complete mess.

However, the Imperial period presents the most clear and logical framework with which to hang the stories around, even if you don't show any familiar faces/places.

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119845304#Comment_119845304

It was shíte because it was implemented poorly though; I think there'd be an appetite for the Post-Jedi period if they just fixed all those ludicrous aspects - starting with the idea the entire New Republic & its fleet was wiped out in one laser-bream shot. Or vice-versa, that the First Order was destroyed after the clone (or whatever the F he was) Emperor's Bazillion-Star-Destroyers-with-Death-Star-Lasers aborted coup.

breezy1985

Mando is set post Jedi and the Empire are still strong enough to get up to shenanigans.

Tony EH

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119845194#Comment_119845194

That was one of the worst things about that stupid movie. What, exactly, would one of these things do with rights?

or one of these?

or one of these?

Droids are machines. Built and designed to perform a function, even if some of them can have the semblance of a personality programmed into them.

Tony EH

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119845456#Comment_119845456

It was shite because right off the bat it was just a half arsed and completely lazy attempt to copy the political situation that presented itself in the original movies and they couldn't even make a decent fist of that. JJ Abrams, who I still maintain is one of the worst blights on current Hollywood, didn't have the creative nous to come up with his own scenarios, so just ripped off an idea and repackaged it. Badly too.

But there's no "fixing" the damage now. Whether we like it or not, the post RotJ era is a dumbass one because the creators believed that they could throw any old shite in the screen and everything would be grand.

Unfortunately, that shite is here to stay and I think it'll be quite a while before Disney will be willing to go anywhere near it again.

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119845678#Comment_119845678

But there's no "fixing" the damage now. Whether we like it or not, the post RotJ era is a dumbass one because the creators believed that they could throw any old shite in the screen and everything would be grand.

Haha. I have two words for you regarding "fixing", and I guarantee it'll come one day:

Time Travel.

Mark my words. When DIsney has finally tapped out and they reckon the original films are far enough in the rear-view. They'll pull a Trek 2009.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119845641#Comment_119845641

Ah you picked the worst examples 'cos you know there are humanoid robots with "feelings" and the capacity to express emotional range. Heck C3P0's core claim to fame was his intense levels of neurosis. Poor droid was a big bag of nerves, led astray by that díckhead R2 - even if mostly used as comic relief. Guy obviously had self-preservation too, when he tried talking his way out of that incident on Cloud City.

It doesn't have to be Star Trek levels of morality, but it'd be an interesting examination to have some Droids rightly question their status, especially those with that capacity for independent thought.

Tony EH

@pixelburp

Haha. I have two words for you regarding "fixing", and I guarantee it'll come one day:

Time Travel.

Ah you picked the worst examples 'cos you know there are humanoid robots with "feelings" and the capacity to express emotional range. Heck C3P0's core claim to fame was his intense levels of neurosis. Poor droid was a big bag of nerves, led astray by that díckhead R2 - even if mostly used as comic relief. Guy obviously had self-preservation too, when he tried talking his way out of that incident on Cloud City.

It doesn't have to be Star Trek levels of morality, but it'd be an interesting examination to have some Droids rightly question their status, especially those with that capacity for independent thought.

There's no droids with feelings. They're machines that can be reprogrammed and have their entire memories wiped. Just like C3PO had. They may have programmed into them the appearance of "feeling" and "understanding", such as a protocol droid might in order for it to function properly around its human masters. But they're not sentient beings. They're completely artificial. But even if we do take R2D2 and C3PO as examples, what would they do with rights? And what rights would be bestowed upon them? The 4 day week? An hour's paid lunch break? The right to reproduce and start a family? The right to bear arms? (seems they already have that one though).

But yeh, R2D2 is a right knob end.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119845775#Comment_119845775

R2D2 could definitely do with a bit of protection in that X-Wing.

Or maybe the right to not get bought and sold. That box robot probably just wants the right to euthanasia because he is a useless walking box.

Tony EH

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119846278#Comment_119846278

That hurt his feelings.

breezy1985

Seeing as we were discussing where Star Wars can go next I'm just gonna put it here that Star Wars: Acolyte details were announced a few days ago.

Set 100 years before Ep:1 and will follow 2 Jedi but also the reemerging Sith. Premise sounds very good but I'm not too confident about the show runner.

https://www.rte.ie/entertainment/2022/1107/1333731-full-cast-of-new-star-wars-series-the-acolyte-revealed/

johnny_ultimate

That was some really **** good television. The tension, the scrappiness, the catharsis, the high cost of victory... all just top-tier stuff and thrilling sci-fi storytelling.

The portrayal of the rebels here really does add a particular depth that has been absent from most SW media to date, including the moral murkiness and horrible decisions they have to make along the way.

ohnonotgmail

Poor ol' Kino.

CastorTroy

Great episode.

Poor Kino. Was trying to tell how he was feeling. Seemed to be multiple emotions on his face.

I was thinking it seemed foolish they left the 2 guys alive in a seemingly functional command, although I guess backup power didn't control the floors. Thought they may have picked up some boots along the way to be safe.

I was going to say they seem to all be great swimmers but then realised we only saw 2 make it. I know they went in different directions but I'm sure more tried to stick with Andor.

Evey time I see Lonni, I think he's Ewan Bremner(Spud from Trainspotting) at first.

Relikk

Serkis and Skarsgard stole the show. Damn, that was good.

AMKC

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119844177#Comment_119844177

What Pantomine. To me TROTJ is the best Originsl Star Wars film.

It has everything space battles battles going on on a planet, cute teddy's:) , gun fights and sword fights.

The music too is excellent.

What more could you want?

AMKC

Anyway back to Andor. Great episode. What a break out. Poor Kino I am sure Andor would have offered to help him but then he was pushed.

I have one question. Why did Andor do that with the water? Did it stop the floors working?

OK two questions.

Yes they all seemed to be swimming quite good but it looked like a big swim and I guess most of them did not make it. Be interesting now to see how Andor and whoever else made it get off from where they are. It looks like a dump with not much around.

delly

Every episode, I wait to see if it will turn in a Game of Thrones. Not that they are comparable, but I mean that something bat shít crazy will happen to stain the previous episodes. So far we are 10 for 10, just 2 more to go to make it safe, but it's never enough, so good you just want more.

Slydice

10: That was freakin great!! The whole damn episode! Every damn part had so much in it. The performances of the cast!

Then the speech at the end to wrap it all up! Brilliant!

Everything!

Definite nods to:

Spoiler Warning

Andy Serkis for his showing the man coming to terms with changing the path he was following.

Diego Luna bringing the struggle and begining of a leader role to life.

Genevieve O'Reilly in the encounter with the thug.

but like.. wow.. Stellan Skarsgård just punching right on through with that speech at the end to Lonni. I guess there'll be a few more appearances of him before this series plays out.

Right so, back on track to wrap up the Triology of episodes from writer/director Beau Willimon / Toby Haynes. To the fair that goof of using headphones as a torture device probably was cast upon them.

Next up and to wrap up the season with the final two episodes see the team up of writer/director team Tony Gilroy / Benjamin Caron. Gilroy wrote the first three episodes. Caron directed episode 7. That was a really good one-off! The one where

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Mon Mothma told yer man to Smile. Where the cop ended up working the desk job.

Yeah so.. all looks promisiing!

Slydice

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119855728#Comment_119855728

To be fair you only asked the one question. I'm pretty sure the answer is that Yes, the idea was they got the water

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to short circuit the floors.

gmisk

Episode 10.

Bloody hell I am running out of superlatives for this show. It just gets better and better.

Spoiler Warning

I am glad they didn't leave the big break out til the last episode. The scale and scope is just brilliant. The scene with all the men swimming away from the prison was just stunning.

Mon Mothma you have to feel is at risk she showed her hand to a dodgy rich asshole possibly for nothing....I thought she would be glad to get rid of that bloody daughter.

Stellan Skarsgård was absolutely stellar giving his speech about what he sacrificed.

Will we see Kino again I wonder?...Serkis was stellar.

breezy1985

I was really confused about the last bit of the break out because my brain was on George Lucas single ecosystem planet mode.

I assumed that place was 100% water 😂

Mr.Nice Guy

I enjoyed that episode. I feel this is better than The Mandalorian.

I'm wondering what happened to that Blevin guy who was Dedra's rival early on. I was thinking he would turn out to be a spy but then his character seems to have vanished from the story.

ollkiller

Another fantastic episode. This show is so good. Poor Kino but I knew something like that would happen. Hopefully that's not the last we see of him. Would be fantastic if that wasn't the end of his story. Skarsgards speech was unreal.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119861318#Comment_119861318

Skarsgard could make a shopping list sound dramatic. Absolutely class actor.

A real spiritual successor to fellow Swede and Star Wars actor Max Von Sydow.

PhiloCypher

So many fantastic moments and performances in this episode. Everybody keeps talking about Serkis intercom speech rallying all the prisoners, but the scene of him in his cell with his back turned as Cassian told everyone what was happening was an acting masterclass . You could see the inner turmoil as he built up to doing what he knew had to be done. It reminded me of the Pacino scene in the cafe in Godfather just before he slots Sollotzo and McClusky where he knows there's no going back after this.

Not to be out done Genevive(mon) and Stellan (Luthen) also absolutely killed it with the small amount of screen time they had. Mon keeping her cool just long enough for the dodgy banking guy to leave, then her breath catching as she realises yes she was lying when she said she wasn't considering using her daughters hand in marriage as a bargaining chip. And then there was Stellans goosebump inducing speech about his sacrifice to the mole 😮.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119861526#Comment_119861526

Love how he knows full well he is too evil to exist in the world he is fighting to create.

pixelburp

Episode 8, and hi Forest Whitaker! A pleasant surprise and cameo; his Rogue One appearance had a touch of ham about it from what I recall, but here made good use of the little screentime; a wounded, defiant little monologue to remind that they lost. All those many factions bickering and (presumably) fighting amongst themselves while the Empire stole their lunch and everything else. The Mon Mothma material remained engaging, despite the repetition of more parties and frozen-smile, pretend pleasantries.

The prison stuff was quite arresting, pushing the rating as far as it can go with a lot of implied brutality. Good aesthetic, kinda had a THX138 feel about it.

Not sure where Ferrix or Mr High-Collar's stories are going; only complaint throughout has been that because of the universe, the made-up names have been hard to commit to memory so damned if I can recall anyone's.

TheValeyard

That was brilliant

delly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119861526#Comment_119861526

I had the same reaction, his build up to shouting out in the calls was epic and when he did break, that gave me goosebumps. Funnily enough the intercom speech was good and all, but seemed a bit out of place in that we have had little sentimentality, it seemed a little too dramatic, but understand that it serves a purpose.

Apothic_Red

Who wrote the Serkis & Skarsgard speeches, that level of writing is top drawer

CastorTroy

Serkis got tvline's performer of the week

https://tvline.com/2022/11/12/andy-serkis-performance-andor-season-1-episode-10-kino-loy/

McDermotX

Not a 'slow start' as such, as that suggests boring to some, which it has never been. More of a phased beginning, but has ramped up right up with heist, Coruscant and prison storylines, culminating in a fantastic latest episode, with Serkis dominating the screen, only to be matched by Skarsgård's contribution towards the end.

Really enjoying the feel and tone of this, the mature and political themes, the exploration of the Rebellion's formation etc, and probably because I had quite low expectations, I find myself looking forward to each episode which is something that could never be said about Disney's other output. In fact, it really shows up how poor their efforts have been. The Mandalorian, which has never been more than hot and cold for me, the awful Boba Fett and the lamentable Obi-Wan have really been shown for what they are by this up to now, and with a couple episodes to stick the landing, I'd be hopeful for the quality level to be maintained and set itself up very well for its second season.

Agent Coulson

Disney have decided to put the first two episodes this on TV and Hulu in the States over Thanksgiving to get more eyes on it.

It will now also air on ABC, FX & Freeform along with being available on Hulu.

delly

I know it sounds a bit crazy, but I'm really going to miss this when it concludes. There have been other series that I've really liked, that when done, you feel satisfied and then forget about until the next season. Andor reminds me of going to the cinema, and for 2 hours you totally forget about everything going on in real life, work pressure or anything else, as you get absorbed into the story. For a 'TV' series to have that effect is pretty remarkable.

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119874893#Comment_119874893

It's not crazy: this show has single handedly revived my interest in this universe, and the belief it has the capacity to tell interesting (and more mature) stories within it. I was done at Obi-Wan, this show quickly became a Best of the Year contender. Maybe even best of Star Wars.

It's well written, well acted, looks great too; I've really geeked out at that fancy rear projection system used by Mandalorian etc but this show has shown there's no substitute for epic, sweeping locations and crafty cinematography.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119875004#Comment_119875004

Its not just in comparison to other Star Wars it's also very good sci-fi. Lower Decks is its own special thing and SNW is great but mostly in a throwaway sort of way same as Mando. Andor is probably the best thing since the Expanse.

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119875520#Comment_119875520

I don't think that's an outrageous call; I'd say Strange New Worlds has been highly enjoyable, but in the sense of it being a light & fluffy show that rekindled the notion of Star Trek as a show about Adventures in Space. As you say there tonal comparison is probably The Expanse with it and Andor sharing similar altitude of quality.

It's good Sci-Fi because it remembers two core ingredients: first, the people inside it are still human beings, as opposed to Plot Delivery Devices; and second, the "Star Wars" is not the foundational element to the story. It's garnish and flourish - but not like something you see from Dave Filoni, where the canon is all.

Varik

So episode 11 this weeks'

Fact this is the only thing I can complain about this episode say how i liked the rest of it.

Spoiler Warning

What did people think about the short space battle, kinda jumped the shark a bit for me. The start was fine, breaking the tractor beam was good and done in other sci fi even other star wars, but the super solo turret and then the flurry with the laser were a bit much. I can see why you'd have laser like that, could fly around a bigger ship cutting into it like a sci fi version of the ww2 german upward-firing to fire up into the underside of bomber as they'd pass them. But the use there was a bit over the top.

gmisk

Episode 11. Excellent...yet again! It felt too short but that is a sign of the quality for me.

The Kleya character is really interesting I hope she gets some more screen time.

Spoiler Warning

RIP Maarva, I felt genuinely sad for her droid Bee, I like how the producers didn't go with some cutesy design as well. Bix looks to be in a seriously bad way...final episode of the series to be a breakout along with the funeral?

Mon Mothma (O'Reilly really is fantastic) might as well get the annoying bloody daughter married off I suppose...she is in real real bother you feel.

Syrils mother you can see where he gets his slimeyness from...I doubt she will give him another chance

The empire are slowly closing in on "Axis"...Kreegyr suspected by ISB..Luthen letting him burn yikes ruthless. That is one fancy ship he has! Swords out of the wings didn't see that one coming! Liked that sequence. He certainly walked the walk this week.

Quick question the Narkinians why did they save Andor and his mate? They seemed to change their mind quickly. They kinda odd almost Cornwall/Bristol accent threw me a bit.

Only one episode to go...kind of gutted...but hopefully it is a bumper one.

Slydice

11: That ending .. like a one - two combo.

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High off the ship with.. lasers?lightsabres? .. that was cool

but then oooff.. Diego Luna with Andors reaction to the news. Like a punch to the gut!

Good episode.

Next one is the season finale. Same writer/director team Tony Gilroy / Benjamin Caron.

Well that's gonna be something!

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Big fight and ambush when this Anto Kreegyr goes down. Maybe a big event at the funeral for the mother. Mon Motha picking which fork down which road.

Looking forward to it!

AMKC

Another good episode but I don't think anything could beat last week's excellent prison break out episode.

Spoiler Warning

Strange alright that the Narkininans let Andor and your man go. I guess they did not need the 1000 credits each. I was sure Andor was going to say he would give them more but never did.

Loved the ship and the battle

What a ship.

That empire ship do was seriously ugly.

delly

11 for 11, so hyped for the finale.

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119882074#Comment_119882074

It seemed to me they hated the empire more than they wanted the money

Relikk

That empire ship do was seriously ugly.

First seen in Solo. It's an Arrestor class Star Destroyer.

https://i.imgur.com/LoaI2WJ.png

PhiloCypher

Good place setting episode for the Finale. I did feel the Luthen Saw scene, as amazingly acted as it was, felt a bit redundant. Could one of the previous Saw/luthens scenes not have been used to introduce us to Kryger making Luthens sacrificing of him even more effective. Or switch the roles completely around and have Luthen initially asking Kryger to take part in Saws operation, and let it be Luthens decision to sacrifice Saw to keep his Mole safe , that leaves Saw more machine then man in Rogue one(assuming the cartoons haven't filled in that detail)

Mr.Nice Guy

It was a decent episode. I liked the ending. The music in this series has been very good. Hoping the finale delivers.

pixelburp

Episode 9 down. Weirdly, while I wouldn't go so far as to admire or empathise with the ISB characters, obviously, I kinda respect the diligence and ... professionalism(?) of it all; they seem ruthless but competent as well. We're so far removed from snarling jokes like General Hux or incompetent stormtroopers with no aim. The whole season so far has felt like these ISB guys are slowly chipping away and defeat - or at least repercussions - feel inevitable, which is a good way to emphasise the hopelessness of this world; as Skarsgard's character noted, the empire chokes slowly without noticing.

Though I do laugh at the irony at how the Empire already have Andor but don't even know it. As the man himself said, they don't care once they have you; the empire dehumanises so much they can't see the detail and their own bureaucracy is a crutch. Their indifference to even keep photo records is saving his life.

The prison stuff was so sad. Not least the double whammy of the old guy, then the realisation there is no escape. What a world they've drawn here, it's utterly magnetic.