Andor [Disney+]

TheIrishGrover

Don't they have something like 10K years of history? I know that's a silly number that really means nothing but you could have a story set immediately after Jedi. After the death of The Emperor? Investigate the power vacuum that this created. What happens to the average everyday Joe-Stormtroper? We know they are still around. We know The Empire is still around. Certainly on the fringes. But what happened on Couresant? Just cos some cyborg chucks an auld geezer down a shaft does not mean that everything is smooth sailing. This was investigated briefly in the second sequel and then ignored like everything else. But I'd like to see that. a post-Empire political show. And how they handled (Or didn't) the New Order arising. How does one go from being an in-the-trenches rebel leader to politician? How does one move on from being a (Major or minor) cog in The Empire's wheel to a post Empire galaxy?

Maybe How does an unassumingly-immortal droid perceive the rise and fall of The Empire and the rie and fall of The Republic from a distance?

johnny_ultimate

I like The Mandalorian (season one at least) but it's very much a sort of 90s/00s era 'story of the week' type of show just with a big budget and Star Wars aesthetics. And that's absolutely fine, but I don't think it has gone beyond 'that was pretty enjoyable' for the most part (one or two particularly strong episodes aside). But I think it got much worse when it started all the fan-servicey stuff in season two, and it became apparent it was just being used as a launching pad for a half dozen spin-offs. Andor is the first show that hasn't felt weighed down by the series' past.

I know it's easy to say 'they have millennia of history to draw on!', especially as the shows and films have largely taken place within a very limited period of time. I do agree they've limited themselves, but I do also sympathise with creators in this respect - the further you depart from the familiar iconography and characters and places, the harder sell it is to both Disney and audiences. And while Andor is maybe the first show or film to properly drop a lot of the usual Star Wars flair to quite thrilling effect, it still does have familiar faces and general adjacency to the films. Hopefully it is seen as a creative model for the future - although, ominously, it's apparently the least popular of the SW shows so far 🙃

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119845095#Comment_119845095

I'd settle for some form of reset to the Post-Jedi era and JJ Abram's inane "let's blow up the New Republic with the super-duper Death Star PLanet", and the we see the Republic reorient itself in the wake of that attack. As you say, adjusting themselves to the sudden threat of the New Order.

One of the few things, albeit played for laughs, from Solo that I've repeatedly found myself returnign to is Droid's Rights. Like, it's really Effed up that this is a univserse with apparently sentient and sapient Robots - yet everyone almost universally treats them like dogshít. And they take it! It's a bit cliché but some kind of Droid uprising seems more than a little earned at this stage, or at least some degree of rights for these long-suffering bots.

Tony EH

Thing is, they're limiting themselves to what they figure will sell. So far, Disney have seen a huge (and quite justified) backlash against their own sequel era, which was an unmitigated disaster and the Old Republic stuff has only ever appealed to a certain quarter of fans.

It's the Imperial period that is the most enticing and it's obvious that Disney are loath to stray too far beyond it. Nobody gives a toss about the New Republic or the First Order period, because it was absolute shite, and the Clone Wars period of the prequels/cartoons was a complete mess.

However, the Imperial period presents the most clear and logical framework with which to hang the stories around, even if you don't show any familiar faces/places.

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119845304#Comment_119845304

It was shíte because it was implemented poorly though; I think there'd be an appetite for the Post-Jedi period if they just fixed all those ludicrous aspects - starting with the idea the entire New Republic & its fleet was wiped out in one laser-bream shot. Or vice-versa, that the First Order was destroyed after the clone (or whatever the F he was) Emperor's Bazillion-Star-Destroyers-with-Death-Star-Lasers aborted coup.

breezy1985

Mando is set post Jedi and the Empire are still strong enough to get up to shenanigans.

Tony EH

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119845194#Comment_119845194

That was one of the worst things about that stupid movie. What, exactly, would one of these things do with rights?

or one of these?

or one of these?

Droids are machines. Built and designed to perform a function, even if some of them can have the semblance of a personality programmed into them.

Tony EH

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119845456#Comment_119845456

It was shite because right off the bat it was just a half arsed and completely lazy attempt to copy the political situation that presented itself in the original movies and they couldn't even make a decent fist of that. JJ Abrams, who I still maintain is one of the worst blights on current Hollywood, didn't have the creative nous to come up with his own scenarios, so just ripped off an idea and repackaged it. Badly too.

But there's no "fixing" the damage now. Whether we like it or not, the post RotJ era is a dumbass one because the creators believed that they could throw any old shite in the screen and everything would be grand.

Unfortunately, that shite is here to stay and I think it'll be quite a while before Disney will be willing to go anywhere near it again.

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119845678#Comment_119845678

But there's no "fixing" the damage now. Whether we like it or not, the post RotJ era is a dumbass one because the creators believed that they could throw any old shite in the screen and everything would be grand.

Haha. I have two words for you regarding "fixing", and I guarantee it'll come one day:

Time Travel.

Mark my words. When DIsney has finally tapped out and they reckon the original films are far enough in the rear-view. They'll pull a Trek 2009.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119845641#Comment_119845641

Ah you picked the worst examples 'cos you know there are humanoid robots with "feelings" and the capacity to express emotional range. Heck C3P0's core claim to fame was his intense levels of neurosis. Poor droid was a big bag of nerves, led astray by that díckhead R2 - even if mostly used as comic relief. Guy obviously had self-preservation too, when he tried talking his way out of that incident on Cloud City.

It doesn't have to be Star Trek levels of morality, but it'd be an interesting examination to have some Droids rightly question their status, especially those with that capacity for independent thought.

Tony EH

@pixelburp

Haha. I have two words for you regarding "fixing", and I guarantee it'll come one day:

Time Travel.

Ah you picked the worst examples 'cos you know there are humanoid robots with "feelings" and the capacity to express emotional range. Heck C3P0's core claim to fame was his intense levels of neurosis. Poor droid was a big bag of nerves, led astray by that díckhead R2 - even if mostly used as comic relief. Guy obviously had self-preservation too, when he tried talking his way out of that incident on Cloud City.

It doesn't have to be Star Trek levels of morality, but it'd be an interesting examination to have some Droids rightly question their status, especially those with that capacity for independent thought.

There's no droids with feelings. They're machines that can be reprogrammed and have their entire memories wiped. Just like C3PO had. They may have programmed into them the appearance of "feeling" and "understanding", such as a protocol droid might in order for it to function properly around its human masters. But they're not sentient beings. They're completely artificial. But even if we do take R2D2 and C3PO as examples, what would they do with rights? And what rights would be bestowed upon them? The 4 day week? An hour's paid lunch break? The right to reproduce and start a family? The right to bear arms? (seems they already have that one though).

But yeh, R2D2 is a right knob end.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119845775#Comment_119845775

R2D2 could definitely do with a bit of protection in that X-Wing.

Or maybe the right to not get bought and sold. That box robot probably just wants the right to euthanasia because he is a useless walking box.

Tony EH

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119846278#Comment_119846278

That hurt his feelings.

breezy1985

Seeing as we were discussing where Star Wars can go next I'm just gonna put it here that Star Wars: Acolyte details were announced a few days ago.

Set 100 years before Ep:1 and will follow 2 Jedi but also the reemerging Sith. Premise sounds very good but I'm not too confident about the show runner.

https://www.rte.ie/entertainment/2022/1107/1333731-full-cast-of-new-star-wars-series-the-acolyte-revealed/

johnny_ultimate

That was some really **** good television. The tension, the scrappiness, the catharsis, the high cost of victory... all just top-tier stuff and thrilling sci-fi storytelling.

The portrayal of the rebels here really does add a particular depth that has been absent from most SW media to date, including the moral murkiness and horrible decisions they have to make along the way.

ohnonotgmail

Poor ol' Kino.

CastorTroy

Great episode.

Poor Kino. Was trying to tell how he was feeling. Seemed to be multiple emotions on his face.

I was thinking it seemed foolish they left the 2 guys alive in a seemingly functional command, although I guess backup power didn't control the floors. Thought they may have picked up some boots along the way to be safe.

I was going to say they seem to all be great swimmers but then realised we only saw 2 make it. I know they went in different directions but I'm sure more tried to stick with Andor.

Evey time I see Lonni, I think he's Ewan Bremner(Spud from Trainspotting) at first.

Relikk

Serkis and Skarsgard stole the show. Damn, that was good.

AMKC

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119844177#Comment_119844177

What Pantomine. To me TROTJ is the best Originsl Star Wars film.

It has everything space battles battles going on on a planet, cute teddy's:) , gun fights and sword fights.

The music too is excellent.

What more could you want?

AMKC

Anyway back to Andor. Great episode. What a break out. Poor Kino I am sure Andor would have offered to help him but then he was pushed.

I have one question. Why did Andor do that with the water? Did it stop the floors working?

OK two questions.

Yes they all seemed to be swimming quite good but it looked like a big swim and I guess most of them did not make it. Be interesting now to see how Andor and whoever else made it get off from where they are. It looks like a dump with not much around.

delly

Every episode, I wait to see if it will turn in a Game of Thrones. Not that they are comparable, but I mean that something bat shít crazy will happen to stain the previous episodes. So far we are 10 for 10, just 2 more to go to make it safe, but it's never enough, so good you just want more.

Slydice

10: That was freakin great!! The whole damn episode! Every damn part had so much in it. The performances of the cast!

Then the speech at the end to wrap it all up! Brilliant!

Everything!

Definite nods to:

Spoiler Warning

Andy Serkis for his showing the man coming to terms with changing the path he was following.

Diego Luna bringing the struggle and begining of a leader role to life.

Genevieve O'Reilly in the encounter with the thug.

but like.. wow.. Stellan Skarsgård just punching right on through with that speech at the end to Lonni. I guess there'll be a few more appearances of him before this series plays out.

Right so, back on track to wrap up the Triology of episodes from writer/director Beau Willimon / Toby Haynes. To the fair that goof of using headphones as a torture device probably was cast upon them.

Next up and to wrap up the season with the final two episodes see the team up of writer/director team Tony Gilroy / Benjamin Caron. Gilroy wrote the first three episodes. Caron directed episode 7. That was a really good one-off! The one where

Spoiler Warning

Mon Mothma told yer man to Smile. Where the cop ended up working the desk job.

Yeah so.. all looks promisiing!

Slydice

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119855728#Comment_119855728

To be fair you only asked the one question. I'm pretty sure the answer is that Yes, the idea was they got the water

Spoiler Warning

to short circuit the floors.

gmisk

Episode 10.

Bloody hell I am running out of superlatives for this show. It just gets better and better.

Spoiler Warning

I am glad they didn't leave the big break out til the last episode. The scale and scope is just brilliant. The scene with all the men swimming away from the prison was just stunning.

Mon Mothma you have to feel is at risk she showed her hand to a dodgy rich asshole possibly for nothing....I thought she would be glad to get rid of that bloody daughter.

Stellan Skarsgård was absolutely stellar giving his speech about what he sacrificed.

Will we see Kino again I wonder?...Serkis was stellar.

breezy1985

I was really confused about the last bit of the break out because my brain was on George Lucas single ecosystem planet mode.

I assumed that place was 100% water 😂

Mr.Nice Guy

I enjoyed that episode. I feel this is better than The Mandalorian.

I'm wondering what happened to that Blevin guy who was Dedra's rival early on. I was thinking he would turn out to be a spy but then his character seems to have vanished from the story.

ollkiller

Another fantastic episode. This show is so good. Poor Kino but I knew something like that would happen. Hopefully that's not the last we see of him. Would be fantastic if that wasn't the end of his story. Skarsgards speech was unreal.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119861318#Comment_119861318

Skarsgard could make a shopping list sound dramatic. Absolutely class actor.

A real spiritual successor to fellow Swede and Star Wars actor Max Von Sydow.

PhiloCypher

So many fantastic moments and performances in this episode. Everybody keeps talking about Serkis intercom speech rallying all the prisoners, but the scene of him in his cell with his back turned as Cassian told everyone what was happening was an acting masterclass . You could see the inner turmoil as he built up to doing what he knew had to be done. It reminded me of the Pacino scene in the cafe in Godfather just before he slots Sollotzo and McClusky where he knows there's no going back after this.

Not to be out done Genevive(mon) and Stellan (Luthen) also absolutely killed it with the small amount of screen time they had. Mon keeping her cool just long enough for the dodgy banking guy to leave, then her breath catching as she realises yes she was lying when she said she wasn't considering using her daughters hand in marriage as a bargaining chip. And then there was Stellans goosebump inducing speech about his sacrifice to the mole 😮.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119861526#Comment_119861526

Love how he knows full well he is too evil to exist in the world he is fighting to create.

pixelburp

Episode 8, and hi Forest Whitaker! A pleasant surprise and cameo; his Rogue One appearance had a touch of ham about it from what I recall, but here made good use of the little screentime; a wounded, defiant little monologue to remind that they lost. All those many factions bickering and (presumably) fighting amongst themselves while the Empire stole their lunch and everything else. The Mon Mothma material remained engaging, despite the repetition of more parties and frozen-smile, pretend pleasantries.

The prison stuff was quite arresting, pushing the rating as far as it can go with a lot of implied brutality. Good aesthetic, kinda had a THX138 feel about it.

Not sure where Ferrix or Mr High-Collar's stories are going; only complaint throughout has been that because of the universe, the made-up names have been hard to commit to memory so damned if I can recall anyone's.