Vacant property tax coming

JimmyVik

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119112824#Comment_119112824

Who said you have to legally seperate from them. You could just have a fight every Monday, move out to your other property fro a few days and then go back and have makeup sex the rest of the week. Repeat that every week or two.

Your honor we have a very volatile relationship. I just need to move to my apartment to give us both a break every few days, but we love each other so make up after the break always.

cnocbui

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119121512#Comment_119121512

Sorry, but owning property is not a 'privilege', it's currently a constitutional right and viewing it as potential shelter for someone who doesn't own it is nothing short of socialism. Owning something and deciding what you do with it should be part and parcel of the concept of ownership, something Irish society struggles with, as it can't seem to decide whether to embrace socialism or capitalist democracy.

As I posted above, read the thread about not being able to get a tennant out of a house, though I suspect you'd be on the side of the tennants. That problem highlights why someone who owns property should not be forced or coerced into making it available to someone else who doesn't.

Claw Hammer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119121205#Comment_119121205

If she wasn't working or didn't have a pension or settlement.

petronius

For ordinary people (e.g. couple who have moved in together who both had homes/apartments, or elderly people who may have moved in with a relative), there should be carrots not sticks, benefit not punishment!

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119121512#Comment_119121512

If I build/buy a house its not "common" property. We don't live in a system where  property and wealth are communally-owned.

There are places where it is, if you prefer that model. If there's a vote and the system changes here I'll be voting with my feet.

purpleshoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119121155#Comment_119121155

Contribute what?

Thespoofer

As far as I see there's roughly x3 categories of people in Ireland

- private sector working

- public sector

- lifelong doleys ( ies? )

Both public sector and doley are looked after in their old age ( and through their life ).

Public sector, works, nice pension, alot of the time can retire early etc etc. They must buy their own house of course but have a safety net ( pension, secure job ).

Doley, ( I came from a family of them so I know ). Dole, entitlements, house etc etc, sorted.

Me and many others, private sector workers, ( me construction ), shite pension only there as a box ticking excersise , can't retire early ( maybe lotto ), must buy own home, fair enough.

Works bollox off for years to the point of injury and beyond to prepare for future. Buys investment home not to run as a business but to have some sort of security in old age that the other 2 categories have in different formats.

Solution? Let's punish the sector who try not to be a drain on the state in old age.

Brilliant.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119121754#Comment_119121754

This

far better to be encouraging people to take advantage of carrots than to put in place sticks that people will look to circumvent (as there would have to be so many exemptions)

whatchagonnado

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119122130#Comment_119122130

Slightly more €€€s for the privilege of owning more assets and excess than we all deem reasonable as a society.

whatchagonnado

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119121275#Comment_119121275

'Comrade'!! Couldn't be further from the truth. The sooner we start hammering those with excess wealth the better. No problem with wealth generation, but when it becomes detrimental to civil society (as it is now), then we have a duty to do something.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119122562#Comment_119122562

You're blaming the people who aren't responsible for housing, who aren't creating the shortage.

While not blaming the people (Govt) who are responsible and who are creating the shortage.

That makes sense to you.

purpleshoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119122551#Comment_119122551

Absolute drivel, and you clearly lack understanding of the existing taxes in Ireland.

Thankfully a tax on spare rooms in a person's home will not come to fruition. It simply won't ever be on the table for consideration.

To highlight to you directly:

Anyone who got off their rear end, saved a deposit, and then borrowed hundreds of thousands to buy their home is not privileged. They didn't cheat, screw someone over, or oppress anyone to obtain their home.

I put it to you that the person who does nothing to improve their situation but continuously expects the government and the tax payer to prop up their life is actually the privileged person.

Thespoofer

This ^

mrslancaster

I know a couple who are related to friends of ours who live in two homes, both houses in Dublin. They are somewhere in their late 50's or early 60's with adult kids, and after their last son moved out, they found they got on better when they lived apart. Not divorced or any plans to AFAIK, they just prefer that arrangement. I think it's a bit odd TBH, but how would a vacant tax work there - neither house is unused.

LJ12345

I read a number of these apartments were claimed to be rented by corporates during the pandemic at a lower rate to keep them for staff when they returned but it could be interesting when the numbers are released....

“There has been particular anger at reports that high-end apartment blocks are lying idle, with the Business Post highlighting last year that, in midst of a crisis, 100 out of 190 apartments in the 22-storey Capital Dock building near Grand Canal Dock in Dublin were lying vacant.

Following such reports, O’Brien said he wanted to target investment funds that have large swathes of apartments lying empty.”

https://www.thejournal.ie/vacant-property-tax-4-5774165-May2022/

mrslancaster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119123629#Comment_119123629

So the investment companies have rented them out ok but the renters are not using them? How will that work, ie they're unused but not vacant 😅

NSAman

One thing that is blatantly clear in all of this is everyone is blaming people who save hard for a second home and making them pay more tax upon the taxes the have already paid for the ability to purchase a second home.

not one person has said anything about the tax free REITs that are causing this housing shortage, the increased rent and basically doing all of this while paying feck all tax on profits.

if socialism is required, then the large landlords who are tax free are screwing the system wholesale. Tax free, recieving tax payers money and getting their properties paid for for nothing. Not bad if you can get this as a small landlord, but as we all know they get taxed to the hilt.

YipeeDee

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119123455#Comment_119123455

If they’re living in their property, it’s not vacant, hence I made the suggestions for couples to separate and each live in a property themselves. Unless they try to introduce a law to deprive citizens of their own property, in which case they’ll be violating international human rights law.

DataDude

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119121600#Comment_119121600

I’d be fairly confident when this tax comes in, they’ll link it to the definition of your Principal Private Residence, rather than some impossible to monitor subjective definition of vacant or otherwise.

Married couples can only have one PPR. So expect the above absolutely won’t work as a way around the tax. Unless the people drafting it are complete morons!

Time will tell though!

Interested Observer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119122587#Comment_119122587

While the govt/various govts are clearly responsible, I would argue the people of Ireland and Dublin have played no small part in the current crisis as well. See the mass objecting to the development in Dundrum, the non-building of Oscar Traynor Rd, every single judicial review that ends up before the courts, etc.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119126007#Comment_119126007

No one wants over development on on their doorstep effecting their quality of life. A lot of new development are poorly planned with little consideration of local area.

mrslancaster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119125839#Comment_119125839

If a married couple who own two properties decide to separate, they could each have their own PPR. How could Revenue or RTB decide they must have the same PPR, people can't be forced to live in the same house whether they are married or not. Couples can opt for individual tax assessment and are free to live apart if they want.

road_high

All this useless shower are good for- conjuring up new revenue schemes off the backs of working people to give to welfare scroungers and the public service- the only sectors they have any interest in.

DataDude

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119127329#Comment_119127329

They have to legally separate which was the crux of this argument. Can’t just say ‘we live separately’ per previous poster. This would be massively open to abuse otherwise

“At any one time a person may have only one qualifying residence and for this purpose a husband and wife are regarded as one person”

https://www.revenue.ie/en/tax-professionals/tdm/income-tax-capital-gains-tax-corporation-tax/part-19/19-07-03.pdf

getoutadodge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119108202#Comment_119108202

Exactly same scenario where I live in D7. There's a really pretty Edwardian House (400m2 plus) with steel sheets covering doors and windows. Been like that for years. Post a physical notice on the property itself (three months max) and in national papers of imminent CPO and then hold the funds until claimed. Let the wails of communism lite begin. Similar inducements/punishments should apply to degraded frontage as done in Paris

Flinty997

Nice starter home for someone.

mrslancaster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119133292#Comment_119133292

That can happen if the owners are trying to get planning permission to do something with the property and neighbours have objected. Planning permission can take ages, if refused it can go to an bord pleanala, more months, refusal again and a revised application is done and the process starts again. Years can go by. There was a field near my folks, planning for houses took four years then it was sold but the PP had expired and the new owners wanted to build apartments. Huge objections, local meetings, amended plans, eventually got PP. It took eight years before one sod was turned. That big edwardian house is probably owned by a developer waiting for PP or a religious order who own lots of big empty properties in many of our towns and cities who could have plans to redevelop it.

What good would a cpo do? Will the council develop the site and build houses on it? We all know they don't even build on the huge amount of land they already own where they could build to scale, so why would they be interested in one small site.

cnocbui

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119133292#Comment_119133292

I'm sure that property is in walk in condition and is really depriving some FTBer an easy first buy.

F*ck socialism. Someone might have inherited it, and spent every spare penny and borrowed to pay the inheritance tax on it. They might want to eventually live in it later in life when they have toiled and saved for a few decades to try and save enough money to refurbish it and make it habitable so they can live in it. None of that is remotely unreasonable of them and they shouldn't be forced to sell it or do otherwise.

whatchagonnado

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119122763#Comment_119122763

The notion that hard-work will get you somewhere is absolute teenage debating level nonsense. The vast majority of people work hard. But here you are accusing a teacher and a Garda couple of not working hard because they can't afford somewhere to live. Accusing an electrician who gets out of bed at 0530 and home at 1900 of not working hard. Absolutely utterly disgraceful stuff. I can't believe what I'm reading.

The owner of the 2 properties beside me is very wealthy, owns multiple properties and a local business. Lives is a huge fo house in Rathmines.

Simply couldn't be bothered, he has an asset which is appreciating in value. No planning issues, no planning ever applied for. These houses are a blight on the area, and the owner is just giving us the 2 fingers.

Properties should be cpo-ed and sold.