Vacant property tax coming

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119108393#Comment_119108393

What would your opinion be on what used to be a fairly common practice in Dublin back in the day - namely the buying of property in order to deliberately let it go to ruin in order to depress prices so that a developer can eventually buy surrounding property at a discount and knock it all down? That was what developers did when bulldozing a lot of what was Georgian Dublin

Property is controlled. When those controls benefit a property owner, they either don't see it, or pretend not to see it. When it doesn't suit them, then they suddenly see it.

If you want zero controls, then that is fine. But don't be moaning about the consequences.

seamus

The entitlement is gas.

Houses are not sentimental trinkets or speculative assets. Housing is a fundamental necessity, and the purpose of the state is to ensure that necessities are not made more scarce than needs be, whether that is through price gouging, price fixing or hoarding.

The notion that you should have a right to hoard land or property without penalty is obviously nonsense.

This measure is unlikely to be of much effect anyway. During the last crash, vacant property numbers only contracted by 15%. Clearly there are lots of people sitting on lots of houses that cost them nothing, but they're holding them so they can cash in later on.

Won't make a huge dent in the undersupply of housing, but at least they can be paying their fair share now for hoarding.

Atlantic Dawn

What next, should unused cars be taxed as there's a shortage of used cars on the market?

Ginger83

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119108434#Comment_119108434

What's to stop someone claiming a son lives in a property and in reality let it go into disrepair because they can't be bothered?

How will a vacant property tax solve this with people determined to keep vacant properties?

If the government would stop meddling we wouldn't have this problem.

gorse

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119108295#Comment_119108295

Believe it or not, but I am sympathetic to individuals, but this problem has gone too far. The number of vacant houses in Ireland is estimated at 1 in 10. It is estimated to have the 10th highest vacancy rate in the world.

*These are estimates, because we don't actually have a proper count.

Something has to be tried.

Also, do you not see the irony in saying that you have to keep the house for your children because they can't afford a house in this market? If there weren't so many people sitting on empty homes, houses would be more affordable. It is a chicken-and-egg problem.

seamus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119108503#Comment_119108503

It won't stop this problem, because this is what such a fool was always going to do with the property.

But it should discourage others from doing the same and letting a family home sit idle after probate, or buying up empty apartments because you've a few hundred grand to spare.

DataDude

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119108503#Comment_119108503

Suspect they’ll monitor this. If under 18, clearly unlikely to be occupying house alone.

If over 18, under the current tax laws, this is considered as though the parent is ‘gifting’ the son the market value of the rent each year which will have tax implications for both parent (income) and son (capital acquisition tax) which would likely far exceed the vacant property tax.

In reality the above isn’t monitored closely but doing to avoid vacancy tax would be handing yourself on a plate to revenue.

gorse

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119108318#Comment_119108318

Local authority home improvement loan

Repair and Leasing Scheme

New grant for first-time buyers to repair derelict buildings

It is not perfect, but there is a clear carrot and stick approach.

Topgear on Dave

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119108318#Comment_119108318

I'll be interested to see how much the tax is. A few grand won't go far tidying up a place, it may be cheaper to just pay 2 or 300 in tax.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119103320#Comment_119103320

Could have been an interesting thread until it was ruined with absurd hyperbole.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119108503#Comment_119108503

Some might try that. There can be negative implications for doing it too

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/personal-finance/figuring-out-your-tax-liability-if-a-child-moves-into-property-you-own-1.2013234

0ph0rce0

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119108503#Comment_119108503

They couldn't orgainse a piss up in a brewery but when it comes to taking your money I'm sure they'll have everything covered to prevent this and bleed your bank dry.

Ginger83

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119108556#Comment_119108556

Why doesn't that surprise me

airy fairy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119108482#Comment_119108482

I think it's the entitlement of people demanding a house that seems to be a far bigger issue. I'm entitled to a house. You have more than one, you have to sell it so I can buy it. Ffs.

People begrudge that someone holds onto a family home, that currently they can not afford to upgrade, but will in the future. The fact that the property was worked on, and paid for many years ago, and now belongs to someone that cannot bring it up to standard until they finish college etc is farcical.

As someone else said, there's a shortage of cars now, does it mean those who have more than one car in the driveway now have to put it up for sale to reduce the asking prices in general?

Entitlement and begrudgery is well and truly established in this country.

Topgear on Dave

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119108354#Comment_119108354

1. Pay it. Likely 3 or 400.

2. Pay 10/20 grand or likely far more to renovate.

3. No ill leave it empty til I wany to move back injust pay the pittance in tax.

I don't see how this eases the shortage of rentals at all.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119108659#Comment_119108659

That's fine. Bring it in at 3 or 400 and increase it over time. Maybe hit 2-3k after 5 years. Eventually a lot of coughs would be softened.

It's not a question of whether the strategy would have an impact. It is a question of "what price does it need to be at to have an impact"

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119108629#Comment_119108629

Completely oblivious to the policies and rules which protect the value of houses and property.

I'd be delighted for all rules relating to property to be gone away with. Not only to see hear the moans of current property moaners when the consequences manifested themselves once their protections were no longer there, although it would be an added bonus.

amacca

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119108555#Comment_119108555

It's not hyperbole imo....poster has a point

It's the same pricks meddling to fix a problem of their own making and it probably won't solve the problem either....

Maybe if they showed some respect to private landlords they wouldn't be seeing a flight of them from the market and have a dysfunctional rental sector....they seem to value the foreign dollar more than the domestic one and I can only conclude that's because more of them are being diverted into their own back pockets.

When you think about it almost everyone of their decisions has inflated the cost of property and driven it further out of reach of a generation....this will be just another thin end of the wedge whip around that will do **** all.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119108925#Comment_119108925

Anyone who compares taxes to a group that exterminated disabled people in gas chambers is an idiot. Sorry.

Mr. teddywinkles

To be honest putting the problem back on ordinary citizens of the country is a cop out in fairness.

amacca

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119109001#Comment_119109001

I see, I thought it was the on topic main thrust of the argument you were objecting to.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119109175#Comment_119109175

It's hard to take any argument seriously when something as mundane as taxes is compared to one of the most evil regimes in modern history.

Mr. teddywinkles

What's next a spare room tax. Jaysus 🙄

glut22

In the UK council tax (a householder tax paid by the the person living there not the owner necessarily) get charged at 200% when a property is vacant more than 6 months or something like that (there are exceptions for major renovations) And council tax can be £1200 a year so its a big deterrent.

amacca

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119109193#Comment_119109193

That's your perogative I suppose.....although in my case as hyperbole could generally be thought of as an exaggerated statement not meant to be taken seriously I didn't and instead thought the non "hyperbolic" 😅 parts of the post made a lot of sense.

DubCount

The biggest problem here is the practicality not the principle. The bigger the tax, the bigger the incentive to find a way around it. A Vacant Property Tax is going to have certain exceptions - older people in care homes, student accommodation that may be vacant for the summer, separated couples who own 2 homes, buildings undergoing renovations, buildings that are not habitable, adult children staying in a parents second home, holiday homes ...... whatever they decide. Thats going to leave scope for lots of tax avoidance strategies - rent it out to a mate/relative for €1 per month and bingo its not vacant, take out the kitchen and bingo its not a habitable property, start a renovation project for 6 months, then start another one ...... there are going to be just too many ways to avoid this, and the bigger the tax gets, the more it will pay to use a work around.

This may raise a few bucks for Revenue which is no bad thing, but it will not create a solution to the housing crisis.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119109267#Comment_119109267

I read the statement as one piece, oddly enough.

By the way, that's a curious definition of hyperbole, and found when you Google it your definition is the first result. Hmm...

For the rest of the English speaking world it simply means an exaggerated statement. Try an actual dictionary in future. As you were.

Ginger83

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119109239#Comment_119109239

I noticed that some houses in Northern Ireland had the tiles stripped off the roof and I asked a friend about it. Seemingly it's to avoid paying the property tax.

Have you come across this?

Geuze

https://twitter.com/seamuscoffey/status/1528702402626564097

In Census 2016, the CSO asked enumerators to provide notes on reason for vacancy (the process is more formalised for Census 2022 & will have wider coverage).

Of the 183k vacant (non holiday home) units identified, reasons were summarised for 57k. Would a tax apply to all of them?

glut22

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119109318#Comment_119109318

I had a property in England that was vacant before it was sold and got 6 months at 50% council tax and after that it would be 200%. Thankfully it sold before that