Vacant property tax coming

Thespoofer

Not everyone with a second home uses it as a business.

YipeeDee

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119115546#Comment_119115546

No it’s not taxed like being self employed. There’s an entire list of expenses self employed people can write off against tax that aren’t applicable to small LLs and since when are self employed people paying 52% tax?

As for risking their asset. Many small LLs have a mortgage on their property, you think a bank is going to understand that they’ve got a non paying tenant they can’t remove for two years? For many small LLs all it takes is just one non paying tenant and they’ve lost their asset.

Yes, we are “running a business” but without the protections that apply to other businesses and being taxed as a PAYE workers.

As for not “hacking it”, you’re dead right there. Perhaps you’ve missed it, small LLs are leaving the market in their droves.

And no need to extend me the invitation to leave the market, I’ve already stated I’m going getting out just as soon as my tenants leave. Only I won’t be selling my property. I just won’t be renting it out again. So one less house available for rent.

whatchagonnado

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058247020/vacant-property-tax-coming

How can you simultaneously be renting your property and have it vacant? Either you're a landlord with tenants or you are not, it's binary. And nobody is forcing someone to rent their property, society is encouraging owners of vacant properties to support society by renting/selling them, or contribute a small amount. Fantastic idea.

whatchagonnado

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119104901#Comment_119104901

There is a housing crisis. People should be encouraged to rent or sell instead of hoarding.

MakersMark

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119116006#Comment_119116006

You wouldn't feel the same way if you were forced to rent a property you own to people you cannot vet, and against whom you have no comeback in the event that rent goes unpaid and/or the house is damaged.

Apply tenancy rules to any other business and watch what happens to them.

Imagine supermarkets were fined for refusing to sell to people who smashed up their stores and stole tens of thousands of euros of good from them.

Imagine car hire firms who took back cars from non paying drivers who crashed their cars being fined 10k.

Bleat all you want about how evil landlords are, but they are leaving, and that can't be denied.

Why do you think they're leaving?

MakersMark

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119116015#Comment_119116015

No one is hoarding houses.

Choosing not to rent an incredibly valuable asset to people who may destroy it is not hoarding.

Let's go one step further...after all there is a housing crisis...let's have a spare room tax on any house that's hoarding a spare bedroom.

airy fairy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119116015#Comment_119116015

Why should anyone be forced to rent or sell a property they have paid for? To be rented out to people you've no idea who they are, if they'll pay, how much damage they'll do to the property? And if you wanted to use your property at a later date for a family member, a property you own, you cannot get these people out.

whatchagonnado

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119116167#Comment_119116167

I don't disagree with a spare bedroom tax. You have excess need compared to what is beneficial for society. You can keep it, but you will need to contribute to help those who you are denying access.

whatchagonnado

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119116277#Comment_119116277

Nobody is forcing you to sell or rent. You are being encouraged to do something with a valuable asset which you are not using and which would benefit others in society. And remember, you can exchange the asset and invest the proceeds elsewhere. It's a no-lose situation for those with vacant properties.

The fringe cases you mention don't tip the balance.

whatchagonnado

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119116153#Comment_119116153

I'm not bleating about anything... Your inference speaks volumes. Victim mentality from someone with an asset worth hundreds of thousands of euros.

airy fairy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119116788#Comment_119116788

To exchange the asstets, one has to pay more taxes, on property that has been fully paid, round and round we go.

Adding taxes won't change the availability of property, not the amount that's needed. In fact, it'll be only the wealthy and investors that will be able to purchase vacant buildings due to the upgrades needed to make properties habitable.

whatchagonnado

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119116833#Comment_119116833

Ok, so the issue isn't really about society in general, it's just about asset owner's wealth.

YipeeDee

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119112949#Comment_119112949

I’m with the ”Skinflints” who are not lying down to get screwed over yet again for tax on a property they’ve already paid their taxes on when they purchased it, taxes on it just to own it, disproportionate taxes on it to rent it out (in comparison to all other businesses) and when they snuff it, their kids are then going to have to pay taxes on to inherit, and then take up where the “skinflint” left off and continue to pay tax on it while it’s in their possession. And on and on it goes..

Fair play to the “skinflints” they’ve got my vote!

airy fairy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119116851#Comment_119116851

Twist it whatever way you wish. Having an asset isn't a sign of greed, for most, it's hard earned. The simple fact is that those who begrudge others for having hard earned assets would love nothing better than to tax those people more and make them pay more for that asset just for the sake of it and cannot look at practical, reasonable, workable solutions. It's sad really.

spaceHopper

Just build social housing on state and council owned land

airy fairy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119117263#Comment_119117263

It would be the logical solution, and there's enough state owned land available right round the country. Build enough and it would reduce the outrageous lack of rental properties and affordable home. If the planning for 600 temporary homes for Ukrainians go ahead then it'll open floodgates hopefully.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119109508#Comment_119109508

If it were possible in this county to evict tenants who refuse to leave (when fully compliant notices are served) sooner than 2-3 years, then I’d happily rent out my apartment. Until that time comes, no way is my apartment going onto the rental market

purpleshoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119116778#Comment_119116778

Unsure if you are being serious, or are just trolling with that comment?

Thankfully a spare room tax will not happen but it is maddening (providing you are serious) to see these daft comments.

mrslancaster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119116778#Comment_119116778

Tell me this is a joke..

If I choose to buy a house with 3/4 bedrooms for my future family needs, (instead of being a burden on the state by needing state supplied housing), you think because I have no immediate need for it that I should pay tax on my spare rooms? Wow...

meijin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119118272#Comment_119118272

This was tried already, in post-war Poland 1945-1956. If you had more than 1 room per person, the government (communist at that time) would move in someone to your "spare" rooms :D

No, there was no "vacant room tax" - you were forced to share your house with people in need.

Desperate times require desperate measures.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119118344#Comment_119118344

I think that maybe my wife and I are separating and using separate rooms and I have to work from home and need an office. Good luck with commandeering my spare room! Ha!

in all seriousness, there is already plenty of incentive to rent spare rooms that will be increasingly taken up as cost of living bites (€14k tax free anyone?). And government could immediately free up a lot of capacity by properly resourcing the RTB and get cases through nice and fast. If private landlords had any confidence at all that the RTB had their back with overholding and bad tenants, and that such tenants could be evicted quickly, then many more of these properties would come on to the rental market - more effectively than the state trying to force them

There are easier options than turning to old communist practices

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119118344#Comment_119118344

If the Govt had supplied me with the property then asked me to share it that would be different.

gorse

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119118378#Comment_119118378

Definitely the RTB needs improved, but there also needs to be a vacant house tax.

There is a blight of vacant houses outside of Dublin that is adding to the problem of over-centralisation and the lack of housing in Dublin. Here is a common scenario:

Guy used to work in trades in Dublin or London, bought a piece of family land in cash at family rates, did a self-build over several years and the left the job and became a handyman or farmer. Then he inherits one or more properties and holds on to them for 10+ years in case his hypothetical children might someday use them. Inherited properties become dampridden and need major repairs- an absolute waste.

Sale prices in the area are inflated out of the reach of locals by holiday buyers and young people with jobs leave for Dublin because they can't get anywhere to rent and are sick of living with their parents. Or they head off to Dubai and come back to cash purchase over-inflated houses. Between holiday homes and vacant properties, about a quarter of houses are empty. When families try to move home, they are shocked that they can't find anything 'but there are so many empty houses!' Local businesses can't hire staff because applicants can't find a place to live. Since people with vacant houses are comfortable and the current charges aren't onerous, they aren't in any hurry to lower prices to sell them. Some houses have been on the market for 5+ years! This is really messed up.

We, the taxpayer, are subsidising this too, because this sort of market forces more people to seek social housing.

Some of the people with vacant houses don't even realise that there is a strong demand for rental house even in rural areas and neither do the politicians. The local estate agent said that if he had 10 rental properties, they would be gone tomorrow. He has none right now. Information needs to be part of the approach too and not scare stories about 50% tax, when you can see in the example above that it probably doesn't apply.

This vacant house tax is the only thing I see addressing a the issues. Does anyone who disagrees with it actually have a better solution?

Flinty997

The reason rural places are vacant is everyone moved to the cities. The reason people want to move back is they are priced out of the city. But the cost of making these ruins habitable will be eye watering in the current market. They won't be able to afford that either. It's also the reason many places can't be rented.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119118700#Comment_119118700

it potentially makes sense in RPZs. But BER F/G rural holiday homes that are only realistically habitable in the summer shouldn’t be subject to a vacant home tax.

gorse

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119118700#Comment_119118700

Maybe reread my post. There are people who want to be here, with jobs available, who can't get houses despite a quarter of the houses being vacant. Not all of them need that much work either. There are three houses in a 5 minute walk from my door that someone could walk into and scrub and paint into shape. Others need more repairs, and there are grants up to 60k for that.

Flinty997

Why don't you then?

When the market tanks, these will be the first to drop.

gorse

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119118765#Comment_119118765

They aren't my houses?

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119118771#Comment_119118771

So its going to cost more than 60k so.

airy fairy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119118575#Comment_119118575

How would vacant house tax ease the rental and housing crisis. It would be just another tax of a few hundred lumped with tax/utilities that are already being paid.

I would imagine there are a lot if vacant homes that would need huge restoration and upgrading to be habitable. Even if the owner wanted to rent a property out, how do you suggest they financially do it? And if the owner wants to sell it, a buyer will have to have mortgage plus more to get it into shape. How does a couple on industrial wage do it?

The issues are at grassroots level. Potential landlords maybe being offered grants to get properties on the market? A decent break for buyers such as a grant for older properties? A watertight assurance for landlords that the rtb act swiftly, and accordingly when issues arise?