Vacant property tax coming

embraer170

Quite a few couples will soon be claiming to live in separate homes if this comes in. I can't see too many disadvantages of what.

And if this comes in, what is the justification for exempting holiday homes? These certainly eat into the housing stock too.

hayse

Bonkers stuff being discussed on the Tonight show. 1% year one 3% year two 5% year three, bury the dildo do.

amacca

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119109307#Comment_119109307

You generally take wildly exaggerated statements seriously then?

I think you will find most dictionaries define it that way and an intrinsic property of exaggeration is its not really meant to be taken seriously.

Thanks though for your help. It's been quite.....helpful!

AdamD

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119108295#Comment_119108295

Its amazing that you haven't realised part of the reason house prices are 'too expensive' for your children, is because people like you are sitting on property letting it go derelict. That's before we go near the negative effect dereliction has on areas. Your posts are utterly incredible to read

touts

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119109487#Comment_119109487

The Green Party lad proposing it had a ponytail and looked like some sort of a villian from a Jean Claude Van Dame movie. And that was the most credible part of him because when they started grilling him on the proposal he knew nothing. I thought Hugh was going to go across the table at him at one point. You couldn't make the **** up.

amacca

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119109508#Comment_119109508

If you think that's the main reason or even a particularly significant reason why house prices are "too expensive" then your post is truly "utterly incredible" to read.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119109498#Comment_119109498

"You generally take wildly exaggerated statements seriously then?"

No. In fact, if you examine my response, you'll find that the absurdity of the comparison made it so that I *couldn't* take their post seriously. Hence, my response.

Hope that helps. I'm going to stop responding now, because you're just getting beyond silly and it's distracting from the main conversation.

airy fairy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119109508#Comment_119109508

Who said I left a property go derelict?

I said my parents died unexpectedly under circumstances I'm not disclosing here. The property is in probate now. If you were educated you'd know nothing can be done with properties that are in probate.

Cop on. Don't be so judgemental.

AdamD

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119109593#Comment_119109593

Walk around any town or city in this country, dereliction is a massive problem. This tax is needed and reasons like probate will no doubt be accounted for. Yes some of the posts here are incredible to read. The generational divide is pretty clear.

amacca

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119109606#Comment_119109606

That was in relation to you taking exception to my "curious" definition of hyperbole

Which was not curious at all and pretty much generally accepted given that exaggeration isn't something to be taken seriously.....by its very nature.

But I suspect you realised that and just don't like opposing viewpoints that challenge your own and/or not having the last word.

But just to bring it back on topic as that's no doubt your primary concern I think the poster you initially responded dismissively to had a good point about the states meddling with private property and property rights and I'd like to add the detrimental effect it has had on prices and the private rental sector

Such as a completely one sided approach to eviction of non-paying/antisocial tenants.

Counterproductive rent controls via RPZs

And now taxing private property if simply decide to leave it vacant ......presumably its already taxed via lpt, it was bought with earnings that were taxed etc etc

Tbh if the effed off with their populist ineffective meddling, property prices would probably be lower and there would be less of a crisis....our various assorted govts over the past couple of decades have been doing everything to keep values high or inflate and have favoured institutional landlords over private citizens (for what reason I can only imagine....I mean its either corruption or gombeen populism or some %combo) ...and tbh when someone draws attention to it even if it's seasoned with a spot of godwinning it doesn't render everything they've said valueless so I guess that's where we differ and you may have to accept that without resorting to some frankly curious claims about generally accepted definitions of hyperbole being.....curious.

As an aside I'd be reluctant to give them any further wedges they can start on the thin end of......if they worked on sorting outsome of the disastrous decisions/policies they've introduced to date I might have more appetite for a new one....I'd have some confidence its not simply another charge that will do little to fix yhe problem and isn't simply window dressing then.

amacca

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119109335#Comment_119109335

Vacant maybe

Define "other"

amacca

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119109685#Comment_119109685

Then perhaps make it a dereliction tax on houses in an urban environment (cities towns villages) ???....rather than simply vacancy....if the property is being maintained etc then maybe the owner who perhaps paid for it with borrowing or after tax income or its a family home they inherited but aren't quite ready to inhabit and are already paying LPT on shouldn't have to pay additional charges on.

Some posts on the other side are pretty incredible to read too.....

markodaly

Cork City has over 700 vacant properties

It has about 25-30 properties to rent on Daft.ie

That is the nub of the issue. Too much special interest groups hoarding wealth and cash in vacant property and sure if there are no running costs its just like having gold bars in the safe, a store of wealth.

However, we need homes, so **** them. Either sell up or do it up for rent or pay the tax year in, year out. At least then the extra tax revenue may build some extra homes.

hayse

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119109848#Comment_119109848

Get over yourself, best thing you could do now is move into your 8x4 timber shed and sell your house.

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119109858#Comment_119109858

What if I dont have a house to sell?

Not sure what your point is, but I guess you are on the side of greed in this debate.

hayse

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119109865#Comment_119109865

Ok Paul Murphy.

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119109887#Comment_119109887

Christ, I've been called many things on this site, but a Socialist is a new one.

Check my posting history, I am not a Paul Murphy supporter or Socialist of any kind. But I'm not an idiot or asshole either who thinks letting a property rot and fall down on itself is good policy considering we have a housing crisis.

airy fairy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119109848#Comment_119109848

So we create more taxes to build homes, bought from the already fat cats, to house those that won't pay tax themselves. Right so.

Surely we should be addressing the investment groups that bulk buy properties for rental and high resale? Selling one-off properties, in need of investment to make them livable, isn't going to change the cost of housing, nor will they, or can they, be bought by anyone earning a modest salary purely because at any time, buying a house to renovate costs too much. Not just now.

amacca

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119109865#Comment_119109865

I genuinely think it will solve f all.

Of those 700 in Cork city how many can the charge be levied against...or more importantly can be collected from..I sincerely doubt its a large % and some owners will be proactive in avoiding the net

Then you have to think of the cost of administering etc

It seems like window dressing to me tbh.....they are not addressing the real reasons for the problem and the public would be better served putting pressure on the govt about institutional landlords/collapse of private rental sector etc....rather than the easy greedy property hoarders as if they are all one group of homogenous scrooges that are at the root of the problem.

Divide and conquer everytime....

Varik

At some point it'll be worth the big funds money to challenge all these, and then we'll see how all these apparently constitutional as they're temporary laws hold up.

mrslancaster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119109685#Comment_119109685

Will this tax bring those vacant properties back into the rental market?

If they are PPR's the owners may be in a nursing home, hospital, working abroad, prison, so no. If they are second properties, the owners obviously don't want to rent them, they may be holiday homes used by the owner's family, also no.

TBH, I never subscribed to the view that this country is full of begrudgers but now i'm not so sure. Where does the 'tax it because it's vacant/unused' mantra end?

Will unused factories, farm buildings, convents, retail and office blocks be included - couldn't they be converted?? What about other unused things like spare rooms, cars, savings sitting in deposit accounts, boats, artwork, camper vans, mobile homes, expensive handbags or clothing only worn occassionally, etc, I'm sure the list is endless.

People spend their own after-tax money in different ways. Some blow it on drink and drugs, some on foreign travel, fancy cars and watches, some buy property, it's their money, their choice. Our family don't do foreign holidays that cost thousands, but we don't resent or envy people who do. Same with people who can afford a holiday home or fancy camper van, we can't, but good luck to those who can, they've worked for it, paid stamp duty and pay property tax. If people only want to use something they own once a year, that's up to them.

Rant over 😌

Geuze

This is how it works in Toronto:

https://www.toronto.ca/services-payments/property-taxes-utilities/vacant-home-tax/

A tax will be imposed on vacant Toronto residences, payable beginning in 2023. Homeowners who choose to keep their properties vacant will be subject to this tax.

Here’s how it works:

• All property owners will be required to self-declare the status of their residential home(s) each year. This will determine the home’s occupancy status and whether the vacant home tax is payable. Nothing further is required of property owners living in their own homes.
• If a property owner declares their home(s) vacant, they will be required to pay a tax at one per cent of their home’s Current Assessed Value (CVA).
• The tax is based on the property status from the year before – meaning if the home is vacant in 2022, the tax will become payable in 2023.

A unit is considered vacant if it has been unoccupied for more than six months during the previous calendar year, and the unit is not the principal residence of the owner, or it is deemed to be vacant under the by-law. Some exemptions may apply.

Exemptions

There are a number of circumstances where a home may be vacant for an extended period of time.

The by-law, to be passed later this year, will detail the full list of exemptions, including:

• death of a registered owner
• property undergoing redevelopment or major renovation
• property of the owner in care
• rental restriction or prohibition that prevents the unit from being occupied
• transfer of legal ownership of property during the year
• occupancy for full-time employment
• court order

Principal residences may be left unoccupied for periods of time without being subject to the tax, which would offer protection from the tax to most snowbirds.

Audits

Certain properties/declarations may be selected for audit on a random or specific criteria basis. If selected for audit, the City will require the owner to provide information and evidence to substantiate their claim.

In order to ensure compliance and tax payments are being made as required, the tax will include provisions for penalties for failure to pay and fines for various offences, along with a dispute resolution process.

Fees and penalties will be set out in the by-law later this year.

Geuze

Here is how it works in British Columbia:

https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/taxes/speculation-vacancy-tax

The speculation and vacancy tax is an annual tax based on how owners use residential properties in major urban areas in B.C. 

Everyone deserves an affordable place to call home, yet house prices and rent have skyrocketed out of reach for too many people. The provincial government is taking action to address this crisis through the annual speculation and vacancy tax, which will contribute towards:

• Turning empty homes into good housing for people who live and work in B.C.
• Supporting affordable housing initiatives

Find out more about how the speculation and vacancy tax applies to you.

How the speculation and vacancy tax works

The speculation and vacancy tax is designed to turn empty homes into housing for British Columbians, and ensure foreign owners and those with primarily foreign income contribute fairly to B.C.’s tax system.

This tax is an annual tax that applies based on:

• How property owners use their residential property
• The property owner’s residency status
• Where property owners earn and report their income

To learn about how the tax is calculated, see Tax rates.

The speculation and vacancy tax has an annual declaration process and is administered by using data from partner agencies.

This tax is also different from Vancouver’s empty home's tax.

Annual declaration process

Registered owners of residential property in a designated taxable region must complete a declaration each year to declare their residency status and how their property has been used.

You have to declare each year because your circumstances may change during the year.

Your declaration is due on March 31 of each year.

Learn more about:

• The declaration timeline
• Why everyone must declare
• Why we need you to complete a declaration
• Why we ask for your social insurance number

Declaration timeline

• Receive your declaration letter mid-January to mid-February
• Declare by March 31
• You declare how you used your property last year. If asked about your income, use income from the year before last year.
• If you owe tax, pay by the first business day in July

For example:

• Received letter January 30, 2021
• Declare by March 31, 2021
• You declare how you used your property in 2020. If asked about your income, use income from 2019.
• If you owe tax, pay by July 2, 2021

Why everyone must declare

If a property has more than one owner, a separate declaration must be made for each owner, even if the other owner is your spouse or relative. 

Because this tax is based on how each owner uses the property and whether they have foreign income, we need each owner on title to declare separately.

Why we need you to complete a declaration

You need to declare your residency status, whether you pay taxes in Canada and how you use your property so that we can determine:

• If you are eligible for an exemption
• Which tax rate applies if you have to pay the tax
• If you’re eligible for a tax credit

We don’t use information from other sources such as your home owner grant application because that process doesn’t collect the right information for this tax.

Geuze

An article that argues that these taxes don't work:

https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/taxing-rich-peoples-empty-homes-isn-t-helping-the-housing-crisis-1.1640831

eusap

For those thinking to fake move a relative into a vacant home it can cause other tax issues, For the relative having the use of a house and not paying rent they will owe BIK tax. If they are paying a nominal rent to avoid BIK then the home owner will have to declare this income in there income tax calculation.

In the end a Tax will be paid

amacca

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119110084#Comment_119110084

I'd be quite sure it would do little to solve our issues here at any rate.......

Claw Hammer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119109318#Comment_119109318

It was common in Dublin in the 1950s. Roofs were stripped to avoid paying rates. Many fine period buildings were destroyed as a result.

Leg End Reject

If bringing these vacant homes into use would make a quantifiable difference would it not be better to offer an incentive to owners?

Exclude these properties from any CGT liability if sold within a 3 year period. I'm sure selling many of these vacant homes wouldn't financially be worth the effort for many owners when you factor in the market value minus selling costs and CGT.

seamus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119110677#Comment_119110677

For the most part, the way around this will be to make some modifications that make the house no longer qualify as an habitable dwelling. Pulling out the toilets is the simplest one, but if someone still wanted to use it for people to stay in occasionally, you could pull out the kitchen instead.

If someone wants to sit on a rotting property, so be it. Eventually it'll be worthless when they go to sell it, or will have to sink in a pile of cash to fix it.

A undeveloped site tax should also be on the cards. Where if you're sitting on land zoned residential in an area where demand is high (in the same way that RPZs are assesed), then you should be paying a penalty for not developing it.

In all cases, the state should be facilitating a quick sale scheme for private individuals where you contact a state body (e.g. NAMA) to say you have a site or property for sale. They are obliged send out an independent valuer, and then make you a non-negotiable offer. If you accept, they are obliged to purchase it from you, and they cover the legal fees. A reduced CGT rate for a couple of years might also help grease the wheels a little.

DataDude

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119111053#Comment_119111053

The problem with ever incentivizing owners of vacant/derelict properties in any way shape or form, is that it rewards and promotes the behavior.

"If I sit on this a little longer, maybe I'll get some free goodies". As dereliction is something society as a whole badly wants to avoid, stick is the only way to go with this. Even if you made a scheme finite and for existing derelict properties. Future hoarders would be waiting for another 2022 style handout.