Vacant property tax coming

MakersMark

https://www.98fm.com/news/housing-minister-hoping-to-announce-vacant-property-tax-in-the-budget-1346082

Not sure that this will help.

I am certain that there'll be no protection for landlords forced to rent to rogue tenants.

So, landlords at the moment:

Can't choose who they rent to,

Can't raise rents even if they're way below market,

Can't effectively evict non paying tenants,

Can't effectively recover unpaid rent or damages by rogue tenants,

Can't charge a meaningful deposit,

Will soon not be allowed a choice as to whether or not to rent their own property.

Any wonder that rental market backbone landlords of this country are selling up?

Imagine that the above rules were applied to any other sector.

As with everything our government tries to do it will most likely have loopholes and will be poorly policed. There will probably be so many exemptions Holiday Homes, Fairdeal, Short Term Rentals that most people will be able to skirt around it.

The government will be able to say come next election that they enacted legislation to help the crisis while still pushing the blame onto the landlord.

Its crazy that the government can intervene in the rental market impose limits on rent because there is a crisis but when it comes to energy, food and fuel prices which are also in crisis the government do not not want to get involved.

L1011

The DoF have already flagged that this would be ineffectual window dressing; but that has never stopped any Government before.

busy bee 33

Can’t evict a non-paying tenant.

Can’t raise already low rent.

Now you can’t leave a house empty.

This controlling situation is like an anachronism from Soviet Russia or maybe Nazi Germany.

I think I’m separating from my spouse the week they compile the data. I’ll just check my diary 😂

Atlantic Dawn

What will qualify as a vacant house, would it have to be in move in habital condition? Could someone simply dump the toilet out in the back lawn for it to no longer be habital and avoid the tax as they do in Italy?

SusanC10

Will Holiday Homes be exempt ?

They're going to have to make so many exemptions to this it'll be hilarious. How do they even know what houses are empty.

Just off the top of my head.

I'm away for work for 2 months. House empty. Do I pay?

I know a neighbour lives with her partner. Her house is lying empty for years now. I'm sure on paper she lives there. Does she pay?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058247020/vacant-property-tax-coming

As far as I can see if its a good idea on twitter, then they'll run with it.

And folk on twitter want to crack the whip on those landlord bastards and we wonder why there's no rentals. LOL.

airy fairy

So on top of property tax, you've got vacant tax?

My parents house has just gone into probate, it's empty, already paying property tax to keep them off our backs and now they want more?....looks like my 18 year old will have to 'move in' if this is brought implemented.

For sure there gonna be a load of kids sent to "move in" to various places on paper.

I'm sure it'll be easy enough to dodge but the gov wants to be seen to do something, no matter the consequences.

JimmyVik

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119103421#Comment_119103421

Stay in it every Friday after a night on the p!ss. Thats plenty of use. If anyone complains then ask them would they like to dare turn the key in your main house after a few jars on a Friday night with the wife standing in the hallway with the "What time do you call this?" face on.

Claw Hammer

There is no reason why LPT can't be increased where a person owns more than one house and made deductible from rental income. Existing one house owners unaffected, landlords with occupied properties unaffected and people with idle properties caught.

JimmyVik

Great little country we live. NExt you'll be taxed for breathing - oh wait ....

I love the way they have all the little minions screaming out for increased taxes on other people for all sorts of stuff.

gorse

This is well overdue and should have been introduced years ago. The number of vacant properties is out of line for any normal country. Hopefully it will be implemented properly with consideration for individual circumstances (say 1 year to put affairs in order after inheriting a house), but without blanket exemptions (holiday homes!).

Not sure why everyone above is talking about people being forced to rent? If you don't want to rent or sell, you can pay the tax. 🤔

gorse

'There is no reason why LPT can't be increased where a person owns more than one house and made deductible from rental income.'

Exactly. This has the added benefit of incentivising unregulated cash-in-hand landlords to come into the open.

airy fairy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119107965#Comment_119107965

Can you tell me why people should pay tax on a property they own while they already pay property tax on ? Why is it looked down upon when someone owns a property that is unoccupied? As long as the property is clean and being kept presentable obviously. Maybe I want to keep the property for my kids. I can't rent it out because tenants have so many rights I'd never get them out when my own kids would want it.

It's Irish begrudgery imo. No one is allowed have something more than the next.

And thanks for letting me have that year so I can transfer my parents home from probate. It's taken several years to actually step inside the property as the folks died unexpectedly and we had a lot of turmoil to actually get to where we are. Having a gun to my head to pay tax or get rid certainly comes from someone with no empathy.

HerrKuehn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119107965#Comment_119107965

It will also be calculated on a pro rata basis when people are on holidays, including rentals. So, even if you normally live in the house (owner or renter) and you go on holidays for 2 weeks you will be charged 14/365 * daily vacant tax. This is to make it absolutely bullet proof, no loopholes.

spaceHopper

It's all smoke, they aren't enough empty houses to make any significant dent in the housing market but it's a way to not blame the government for building social housing for the last 10 years.

gorse

Your problem seems to be with probate. The obvious solution is that probate needs to be quicker or the clock on the vacant house tax should not start until after probate is completed.

About 20% of the houses around me are empty, yet there is not a single house to rent within a 50km radius. I've watched many of these houses fall into disrepair and some would now need major repairs to make inhabitable. My employer has lost jobs to Dublin (!) because they can't find anywhere to rent here. Hoarding houses is just like any other asset. If shares and investments are taxed, so should houses be. If a person can afford to keep a second home empty for long periods of time, they can afford to pay tax on it, or sell it.

I live beside two empty properties in Dublin 6, both empty for the 11 years I have lived here, each conservatively worth 800k, even in their present run down state. The owner of the properties is in his 80s, and owns numerous properties, appears to have ino nterest in selling or letting the properties. The odd time, he employs a man or two his own age to do some basic maintenance. The direlict building section of DCC, several years ago carried out remedial works on the two buildings, both listed, and since then nothing has happened.

Depressing living beside these houses, suspected source of rats in the area, the sooner the vacant propert tax comes in, the better,

gorse

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119108185#Comment_119108185

90k vacant properties, excluding holiday homes, wouldn't make any dent? https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/county-by-county-where-irelands-vacant-properties-are_arid-40787250.html

gorse

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119108202#Comment_119108202

Some people seem to need an extra incentive to sell. If there weren't so much hoarding, this tax wouldn't be needed.

hayse

Funding the rock and roll by attacking the working man again. Hard earned money sitting on a idle property is no one’s business except their own.

If you want a house get out and get working for one. Racking up 100 or so posts on boards a day doesn’t entitle you to one.

airy fairy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119108200#Comment_119108200

You do realise that people may have no option but to hold onto second properties as they want to hold onto them for children, (house prices to expensive now) but because of the tenant rights, nobody can rent a house out for x amount of years as there no guarantee they'll be able to get the house back for either family to move into or to sell. Government has made it so hard to remove a tenant, going through correct legal procedures, that everyone is either leaving vacant or selling up.

I can't afford to keep a property idle, but between myself and siblings, we divide up utilities, upkeep and property tax etc. It's still cheaper than not knowing you'll have a property let vacant in the event we needed cash flow, or indeed, one of our children needs to use it.

The lack of housing shouldn't be down to people who have more than one house to provide for those who don't have their own property.

Mr. teddywinkles

Whoes paying for bringing all these vacant houses up to a livable standard.

I'm assuming they are mostly in disrepair.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119107997#Comment_119107997

But does absolutely nothing for the common scenario where a couple had bought their own houses when single and later moved into one of them together.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119108318#Comment_119108318

Three broad options for current owners:

1) Pay the tax and suck it up

2) Renovate the property and bring it back into use

3) Sell to some else and let them do 1 or 2 above.

Mr. teddywinkles

Lovely choices

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119108354#Comment_119108354

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119108357#Comment_119108357

"Use it or lose it" I suppose. Property is a controlled commodity (for want of a better phrase). So they have to have rules and policies regulating it too.

Ginger83

There will be a huge amount of sons daughters nieces nephews and relatives redirecting post to vacant properties to claim they are occupied on paper.

It's amazing that if a person has a property that they want to keep in the family and don't want to rent they will now be forced to pay a tax.

What next? A vacant car tax? Maybe we'll be forced to allow people to use our cars on the days they are parked up.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119108393#Comment_119108393

What would your opinion be on what used to be a fairly common practice in Dublin back in the day - namely the buying of property in order to deliberately let it go to ruin in order to depress prices so that a developer can eventually buy surrounding property at a discount and knock it all down? That was what developers did when bulldozing a lot of what was Georgian Dublin

Property is controlled. When those controls benefit a property owner, they either don't see it, or pretend not to see it. When it doesn't suit them, then they suddenly see it.

If you want zero controls, then that is fine. But don't be moaning about the consequences.

seamus

The entitlement is gas.

Houses are not sentimental trinkets or speculative assets. Housing is a fundamental necessity, and the purpose of the state is to ensure that necessities are not made more scarce than needs be, whether that is through price gouging, price fixing or hoarding.

The notion that you should have a right to hoard land or property without penalty is obviously nonsense.

This measure is unlikely to be of much effect anyway. During the last crash, vacant property numbers only contracted by 15%. Clearly there are lots of people sitting on lots of houses that cost them nothing, but they're holding them so they can cash in later on.

Won't make a huge dent in the undersupply of housing, but at least they can be paying their fair share now for hoarding.

Atlantic Dawn

What next, should unused cars be taxed as there's a shortage of used cars on the market?

Ginger83

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119108434#Comment_119108434

What's to stop someone claiming a son lives in a property and in reality let it go into disrepair because they can't be bothered?

How will a vacant property tax solve this with people determined to keep vacant properties?

If the government would stop meddling we wouldn't have this problem.

gorse

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119108295#Comment_119108295

Believe it or not, but I am sympathetic to individuals, but this problem has gone too far. The number of vacant houses in Ireland is estimated at 1 in 10. It is estimated to have the 10th highest vacancy rate in the world.

*These are estimates, because we don't actually have a proper count.

Something has to be tried.

Also, do you not see the irony in saying that you have to keep the house for your children because they can't afford a house in this market? If there weren't so many people sitting on empty homes, houses would be more affordable. It is a chicken-and-egg problem.

seamus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119108503#Comment_119108503

It won't stop this problem, because this is what such a fool was always going to do with the property.

But it should discourage others from doing the same and letting a family home sit idle after probate, or buying up empty apartments because you've a few hundred grand to spare.

DataDude

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119108503#Comment_119108503

Suspect they’ll monitor this. If under 18, clearly unlikely to be occupying house alone.

If over 18, under the current tax laws, this is considered as though the parent is ‘gifting’ the son the market value of the rent each year which will have tax implications for both parent (income) and son (capital acquisition tax) which would likely far exceed the vacant property tax.

In reality the above isn’t monitored closely but doing to avoid vacancy tax would be handing yourself on a plate to revenue.

gorse

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119108318#Comment_119108318

Local authority home improvement loan

Repair and Leasing Scheme

New grant for first-time buyers to repair derelict buildings

It is not perfect, but there is a clear carrot and stick approach.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119108318#Comment_119108318

I'll be interested to see how much the tax is. A few grand won't go far tidying up a place, it may be cheaper to just pay 2 or 300 in tax.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119103320#Comment_119103320

Could have been an interesting thread until it was ruined with absurd hyperbole.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119108503#Comment_119108503

Some might try that. There can be negative implications for doing it too

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/personal-finance/figuring-out-your-tax-liability-if-a-child-moves-into-property-you-own-1.2013234

0ph0rce0

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119108503#Comment_119108503

They couldn't orgainse a piss up in a brewery but when it comes to taking your money I'm sure they'll have everything covered to prevent this and bleed your bank dry.

Ginger83

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119108556#Comment_119108556

Why doesn't that surprise me

airy fairy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119108482#Comment_119108482

I think it's the entitlement of people demanding a house that seems to be a far bigger issue. I'm entitled to a house. You have more than one, you have to sell it so I can buy it. Ffs.

People begrudge that someone holds onto a family home, that currently they can not afford to upgrade, but will in the future. The fact that the property was worked on, and paid for many years ago, and now belongs to someone that cannot bring it up to standard until they finish college etc is farcical.

As someone else said, there's a shortage of cars now, does it mean those who have more than one car in the driveway now have to put it up for sale to reduce the asking prices in general?

Entitlement and begrudgery is well and truly established in this country.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119108354#Comment_119108354

1. Pay it. Likely 3 or 400.

2. Pay 10/20 grand or likely far more to renovate.

3. No ill leave it empty til I wany to move back injust pay the pittance in tax.

I don't see how this eases the shortage of rentals at all.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119108659#Comment_119108659

That's fine. Bring it in at 3 or 400 and increase it over time. Maybe hit 2-3k after 5 years. Eventually a lot of coughs would be softened.

It's not a question of whether the strategy would have an impact. It is a question of "what price does it need to be at to have an impact"

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119108629#Comment_119108629

Completely oblivious to the policies and rules which protect the value of houses and property.

I'd be delighted for all rules relating to property to be gone away with. Not only to see hear the moans of current property moaners when the consequences manifested themselves once their protections were no longer there, although it would be an added bonus.

amacca

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119108555#Comment_119108555

It's not hyperbole imo....poster has a point

It's the same pricks meddling to fix a problem of their own making and it probably won't solve the problem either....

Maybe if they showed some respect to private landlords they wouldn't be seeing a flight of them from the market and have a dysfunctional rental sector....they seem to value the foreign dollar more than the domestic one and I can only conclude that's because more of them are being diverted into their own back pockets.

When you think about it almost everyone of their decisions has inflated the cost of property and driven it further out of reach of a generation....this will be just another thin end of the wedge whip around that will do **** all.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119108925#Comment_119108925

Anyone who compares taxes to a group that exterminated disabled people in gas chambers is an idiot. Sorry.

Mr. teddywinkles

To be honest putting the problem back on ordinary citizens of the country is a cop out in fairness.