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How can we curtail bus lane misuse

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  • Registered Users Posts: 17,719 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    Just to be absolutely clear here that the Dublin city bus service has expanded both in terms of the numbers of routes and frequency over the past five years in Dublin and is going to increase further as BusConnects is rolled out.

    The 175 was a brand new orbital route in 2018 between Citywest and UCD.

    Many of the outer Dublin routes that transferred to GoAhead Ireland in 2018 and 2019 saw increases in frequency when they moved across.

    Dublin Bus increased frequencies on the 1, 14, 15a, 15b, and 27 in late 2018.

    They increased services on the 11, 13, 14, 25/a/b, 26, 38/a, 39/a, 42, 43, 54a, 66/a/b and 70 in 2019, a new route 155 was added between IKEA and Bray, and routes 15 and 41 became 24-hour routes.

    In 2020 additional departures were added to the 33 and the 39a was converted to 24-hour operation.

    In 2021 the H-Spine and C-Spines were launched which included new routes, longer operating hours, and four 24-hour routes.

    There are massive increases planned in orbital routes later this year and next, with brand new routes to be added and increased frequencies - these should relieve pressure on citybound routes as people may opt for the orbital routes instead of two buses. Some of these new routes will use roads that have had unused bus lanes on them, particularly in west Dublin.

    The manner in which the bus service operates is fundamentally changing from one of terminus departure times only, to one that sees a timetable for every departure at every stop along the routes. That's impossible to deliver reliably without properly enforced bus priority measures.

    BusConnects is also about integrating the schedules along each spine, eliminating the random frequencies and delivering a consistent service, with the emphasis being on developing reliable and consistent journey times, which in turn should lead to predictable connections with orbital routes.

    That cannot be delivered without enforcement of the bus priority measures, be they bus lanes, bus gates, priority lights, yellow boxes etc.

    Post edited by LXFlyer on


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,719 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    The minimum night time frequency on the core parts of the 24 hour routes is every 30 minutes.

    I am not fixated on the 24-hour aspect of bus lanes, but rather on getting the existing bus priority measures actually enforced.

    The infrastructure aspect of BusConnects will see far more bus priority measures introduced along the core bus corridors, and as that happens they probably will be operational 24 hours a day to deliver a consistent service and to instill good practice among drivers.

    Remember too that BusConnects infrastructure plans to introduce bus gates on some corridors at locations such as Old Cabra Road, Templeogue Road, Rathmines Road and Kimmage Road Lower, preventing cars from using those routes as through routes, and these measures will have to be 24 hours a day, as otherwise they will just end up being abused at all times.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,686 ✭✭✭whippet


    The majority of drivers do t behave like that ... to say so is just moronic ranting



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭maestroamado


    Sorry bi did not put that very well... What i really meant was the majority of people who drive work at say 8am... car parked for whole day and leave for home at 6... public transport... families always need cars for life... i think this would free up space for people who need to do family shopping for example... not sure how it work for schools as likely few immediate options...



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    No, but I never made that claim, now, did I?

    But people on buses getting to their destination quicker IS THE DEFINITION of better public transport, is it not?

    Maybe you should read what you're writing before claiming others are missing what you are claiming?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 269 ✭✭JayPS 2288


    Should there be penalty points for driving in the bus lane? Increase the fine to €100 and make it a 1 point offence.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,719 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    As a bus user, it is fair comment to say that every day I see drivers out there who do flaunt the rules either deliberately (these are usually BMW, Audi or Volvo drivers) or through incompetence or just inattentiveness, be it:

    • blocking yellow boxes that are designed to facilitate buses pulling out at the end of bus lanes by either sitting in it or creeping forward
    • blocking yellow boxes at junctions - the one on Burgh Quay at Rosie Hackett Bridge is a classic - I've been stuck sitting on a bus on the bridge waiting to turn onto Burgh Quay several times watching the traffic lights go through their cycle multiple times (the record on several occasions is six complete cycles of red and green lights) due to cars blocking the bus in the yellow box
    • parking in bus lanes or indeed bus stop cages with hazard lights on - since centre door exits came into full operation buses absolutely need the full length of the bus stop cage to pull in, line up and pull out again - the bus stops in Sandymount village are near constantly blocked by drivers parking illegally
    • car drivers driving with one set of wheels on or over the bus lane white line stopping buses from getting past - on one bus recently a BMW driver did this in Rathmines and just ignored the bus driver repeatedly sounding the horn behind him until the bus driver just left the horn on constantly
    • car drivers thinking that driving in the bus lane is ok if you have your left turn indicator on - it seems to be general practice to think that it's ok to drive in the bus lane and form a queue of cars approaching a junction rather than staying in the general traffic lane until the arrow indicates cars can move inside - we've seen DCC resorting to installing wands to prevent this on Rathmines Road, Harold's Cross Road and at Whitehall Church. Look at the northbound bus lane on Rathfarnham Road north of the Dodder Bridge - it's just ignored.
    • delivery trucks parked in bus lanes - the ones on the Camden Street - Wexford Street - Aungier Street - Georges Street corridor see this all day long

    I could go on, but it is genuinely a fair comment that as a daily bus passenger I cannot recall a journey on a bus since restrictions were lifted that I have not seen one of the above during the course of the journey. If several of these occur, then every one of them adds extra time to the overall journey time that the bus needs.

    For the bus service to work and become reliable these have to be tackled.

    Post edited by LXFlyer on


  • Registered Users Posts: 28,971 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Do those “very bad accidents “ as a result of cyclists breaking red lights happen often Whippet? I don’t recall seeing many press reports, or Garda requests for assistance, or court cases about such incidents?



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,971 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Would you support a similar regime for motorists? Losing your licence after three speeding offences? Or three parking offences?



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭maestroamado


    i never seen a cyclist being brought to court in this Country for pretty well anything so they either never break the law or the Gardai don't bother enforcing...

    They may be prosecutions every day but i am not aware of any...



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,045 ✭✭✭downtheroad


    There is a fascination with the motor vehicle in Ireland and a general blind spot by drivers towards rules of the road. Look at some of the threads in here lately - a motorist complaining about getting 12 penalty points and doesn't like that he has been suspended frim driving for his inability to drive responsibly, the numerous videos posted by drivers in Fairview complaining about traffic while they A) are the traffic and B) are breaking the law and stupidly putting the evidence online. Then observe daily the amount of vehicles illegally parked on footpaths, red lights broken seconds after turning red (amber gambler is long behind us), drivers using phones while driving, vehicles in bus lanes, vehicles in yellow boxes.

    The Gardai don't want to know. The drivers don't care. The vehicle is the king of the road.

    Until automated enforcement is brought in, which no politician will want to sign off on as it will end their career, none of the above will change and will likely only get worse.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭maestroamado


    We don't have good enough roads for all the cars... we don't have proper public transport... most people i know that have two cars would rather have one but its simply not an option... fix above and problem solved...



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,045 ✭✭✭downtheroad


    So properly police bus lanes and only allow them to be used by buses, then your friends will be able to enjoy better public transport?



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭maestroamado


    Your head is in the sand... you see problems... i see solutions...



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,045 ✭✭✭downtheroad


    Solutions for your friends could be public transport, walk, cycle, GoCar? But it's easy to say oh I would love to get rid of the car but I can't. If they really wanted to they would.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,045 ✭✭✭downtheroad


    Also the problem is drivers breaking the laws of the road. The solution is to police this and put an end to the problem.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭maestroamado


    None of what you say are available... so people need a car to drive 15km to work... solve that one...



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭maestroamado


    The problem is everyone on the roads in Ireland break the law on the roads... large part of the problem is lack of infastructure... The traffic police are very very well resourced...



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,971 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko




  • Registered Users Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭maestroamado


    That's why i asked you as i expect you know everything... thanks...



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  • Registered Users Posts: 28,971 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Solved

    Though you don’t necessarily need an eBike. My commute is 13k and another couple of Kim’s wouldn’t be a barrier. Cycling takes about the same time as driving.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭maestroamado


    Your only talking about yourself and where you live... i am talking general... a large portion of the population cannot cycle... that needs be fixed first... others have health/weight... public transport daily needed everywhere where reasonable numbers...



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,045 ✭✭✭downtheroad


    Weight issues could be reduced or solved by cycling.

    Great example this morning at Westwood gym in Clontarf. A car completely stopped in the bus lane, driver on her phone, oblivious to the bus behind her that couldn't gey passed, all because she was too lazy to park in a car park 200m away. And this driver was going to a gym, to exercise, but would rather block numerous people trying to get into the city centre than walk 200m.

    Now If that bus had ANPR recognition or if there was a bus lane camera in operation, she would get a fine and wouldn't do that again.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭maestroamado


    Say an overweight person mid 30s who cannot cycle and is a competent driver... how long would it take for them to be able to cycle with confidence from Clontalr to O'Connell Street...



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,529 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    you mean how long would it take them to build their confidence up, or how long would the cycle take?

    the cycle itself, google says 20 minutes which sounds about right.



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,971 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    What do you mean by 'cannot cycle'? You'd need to be very, very, very heavy to be unable to cycle a standard bike. It's not unusual to see some very large people (including myself at times) cycling. If balance is an issue, a trike or cargo bike can be a big help too.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭maestroamado


    I cycle and was doing years before it became the norm... alot of people i know say the couldn't cycle and i tell them everyone can cycle...

    The question was how long it would take for these people to be comfortable cycling in Dublin... i don't think i would personally want to cycle in Dublin unless there was designated cycle area which there may well be everywhere in the city...



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,971 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    You mean 'won't cycle' rather than 'couldn't cycle' right?



  • Registered Users Posts: 269 ✭✭JayPS 2288


    The assumed liability rule that people seem to be steadfast against would solve that pronto.

    Anything to soften the coughs of people barging around in the 1,000 kg metal box.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭maestroamado


    That's what i said... how long would it take to do what i asked... as i said i do not think i be comfortable and i try anything...



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