How can we curtail bus lane misuse

JayPS 2288

With 24 hour bus routes becoming more and more common, there’s no reason why all bus lanes shouldn’t be 24/7.

If all lanes are made 24/7 then we can rely not just on Garda or fixed camera enforcement but also on civilian enforcement.

If timestamps aren’t an issue due to my proposed idea of 24-hour bus lanes, then civilians could use bicycle cameras or dash cameras to report offenders using the lane.

Taxi drivers could be caught by undercover Gardaí flagging down the taxi in the bus lane, if the taxi stops, it means they weren’t on a fare or on the way to one and will thus be fined for driving in the bus lane.

Dravokivich

The only thing cameras are good for is speeding. Everything else needs to be observed due to context. Road position is not a simple matter. The gards have other matters that have priority over something that trivial.

DaBluBoi

I highly doubt traffic levels would be high enough at night for bus lane violations to be that much of a big deal

Sleeper12

Crazy idea. Many roads have the bus lanes going into town in the morning, up to 10am or so. The bus lane then becomes parking to allow people to use the shops. Some bus lanes are only needed for 4 or 5 hours. I don't understand the logic in making them 24/7

Princess Calla

Why in god's name would civilians want to be a part of this?

The amount of time and effort for zero reward.

Whatever about making a report on something serious that resulted in an accident especially a fatal one, but making reports on every lil racer zipping up the bus lane??

And no I don't use the bus lane even when out of hours.

But I can certainly think if much better ways to spend my time.

Pick your battles n all that!

Podge_irl

You don't need civilians getting involved, its completely unnecessary.

The answer is automated camera enforcement and has been for years. It is cheap and phenomenally effective.

magicbastarder

If timestamps aren’t an issue due to my proposed idea of 24-hour bus lanes, then civilians could use bicycle cameras or dash cameras to report offenders using the lane.

it'd make far more sense to put cameras in the buses themselves.

d51984

Put the cameras on the buses, driver pushes a button to take snap, give said driver 5 euro bonus for every snap. Fine the culprits 100 euro.

liamog

Agree with the camera on bus approach, has the added benefit that it's punishing the people that are actually in the way of busses.

Macy0161

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118983433#Comment_118983433

Same as Red Lights, Yellow Boxes, Tax/ Insurance/ NCT... The tech is there, and has been used for decades in other States (who also manage to have online portals where citizens can upload footage if they want).

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118983459#Comment_118983459

I think I’d prefer the bus driver to be focussed on safely driving the bus rather than getting involved in taking photos.

Every time you involve human interaction, it becomes a potential minefield in the courts. The process needs to be automated.

As an aside, every bus operating on Dublin City services and those in provincial cities is already fitted with forward facing cameras as it is.

p_haugh

Every bus (in Dublin Bus & Go-ahead at least) has a front facing dashcam attached. Already mentioned by LXFLyer. This can be programmed to automatically record any vehicle and it's reg in the bus lane and can send that info to a system which checks whether or not said vehicle is allowed in the bus lane (aka ANPR). Not allowed? Details sent to the Garda with evidence, like what happens with speeding vans currently. From what I remember, it was stated somewhere that this is possible already, all that's needed is the relevant backend then a simple software update on the bus itself. Now obviously GDPR and all would have to be followed in this regard.

whippet

Another thread from the OP looking to target drivers. Clearly a chip on the shoulder and as such should be ignored as potentially trolling

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118984650#Comment_118984650

The Guards have zero interest in processing fines from these sources, but also refuse to allow any other agency the power to do so. Its more or less the only thing holding this up.

JayPS 2288

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118984684#Comment_118984684

Which other thread(s) did I start targeting drivers?

What chip do I have on my shoulder?

I await your reply.

Xterminator

i guess with your private profile we will never know! :)

whippet

the one yesterday about 'assumed liability'

anyway

Maybe all bicycles should have GPS trackers and tech to decree when they break red lights and a fine is automatically garnished from their PAYE salary or social welfare

mikeybhoy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118983292#Comment_118983292

And if there's no traffic on the road why the need for an extra. Having them 24 hours conditions drivers to never drive in the bus lane. You don't go driving on Luas or railway tracks at night when trains aren't running why should a bus lane be any different?

a garda on each quay pulling ppl every few mornings during rush hour would eliminate it in a month

Seth Brundle

I think there are two main reasons why bus lane enforcement is brutal. Firstly, the DoJ and AGS don't want the role outsourced as it is their job. Secondly, if it was outsourced, it would show just how badly it has been done to date.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118984911#Comment_118984911

Enforcement will only work if people know that they are likely to be caught. If people cop on that the gardai have stopped then they will quickly revert to their old ways.

There needs to be a strong likleihood of being caught coupled with a decent fine in order to change the behaviour.

if it starts up again throw a garda on again

its surefire, could be done tomorrow, pays for itself. dont knock it

Sleeper12

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118984902#Comment_118984902

There are shops on the malahide road near Farview. Most only open at 10am because people can't park before then. There is only a need for a bus lane on this particular part of the road for 4 hours in the morning. It would be silly to force the shops out of business for a bus lane that isn't needed.

24/7 bus lanes, just for the sake of it is a ridiculous idea. 24/7 bus lanes where there is a genuine need is a brilliant idea

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118984934#Comment_118984934

Garda management didn't want to police the College Green Bus Gate despite the costs being made by the NTA & TII. The force in this instance were absolutely crap.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118984684#Comment_118984684

To be fair this is a real problem for the bus service and something does need to done about the misuse or blocking of bus lanes and yellow boxes.

We can’t go on effectively just rolling our eyes and doing nothing if we want the bus service to work.

But the solution has to be automated.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118984942#Comment_118984942

Then the shop owners pull in and take up all the parking spaces...

I know that part of the road incredibly well, anyone expecting to shop there and thinking they will park in one of the spots is a fool. They are full (with the same cars) pretty much the entire time its legal.

But 24/7 bus lanes aren't even needed for this - just enforcement by the cameras on the buses already.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118982819#Comment_118982819

One traffic warden sitting on front of a bank of cameras will do a lot more than the current waste of time having them walking around doing nothing.

Sleeper12

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118985166#Comment_118985166

There is a bathroom showroom on that strip. Vans need to be able to pull up outside to load bathroom suits.

How would shops get deliveries if bus lanes are 24/7?

Seth Brundle

How indeed! It would be great if and when someone invents a device with wheels that you can put stuff on and pull short distances

Burt Renaults

In my experience, the biggest problem isn't cars using bus lanes, but the lanes themselves being too narrow for buses and having no yellow box to help buses when the bus lane comes to an abrupt end.

Sleeper12

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118985293#Comment_118985293

You obviously don't know the area on the malahide road I'm talking about. There is nowhere for a delivery truck to legally pull in for quite a distance.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118985293#Comment_118985293

The whole everybody needs to park right outside the shop or the shop will fold is a myth anyway. On a city street apparently people can't use a shop if they have to park 100m away but will happily park at the other end of a shopping centre and walk way further than that.

d51984

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118984531#Comment_118984531

Button on end of stick around steering wheel or somewhere easy to touch. The problem with using the current cameras on buses now is you have to pay a heap load of people to go through thousands of hours of footage on a daily basis.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118985362#Comment_118985362

I think cowguards on buses would be better. That or retractable spikes.

d51984

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118984650#Comment_118984650

Ignore my post above, missed this post.

Edit : prevous post never posted so ignore this post. Sorry cant delete.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118985314#Comment_118985314

I know it very well as it happens.

If a business set up in a location that does not enable them to load or unload legally then the business needs to find a way to legally do it.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118985362#Comment_118985362

It isn’t a bus driver’s job and nor should it be.

There are other ways of doing this.

What you’re suggesting would be unnecessarily distracting and I suspect a legal minefield.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118985314#Comment_118985314

I know it exceptionally well. How anyone can make deliveries when there are clearly cars parked there from the minute its allowed til the minute it becomes a bus lane again I dunno. Those spots are used by proprietors, not customers (a pretty consistent theme for this kind of parking). Also generally speaking delivery trucks rarely care about legally pulling in anywhere.

It is a major artery into and out of the city centre. And we block it up every single day so that 14 cars can sit their ass there for the whole day. It is absurd.

Zebra3

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118985297#Comment_118985297

Painting a yellow box is just as much of a waste of time and money as painting a line on a road and saying there’s a cycle lane.

Burt Renaults

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118985792#Comment_118985792

That hasn't been my experience. Even if someone drives into it, there's always enough room to get the nose of the bus into the yellow box and then bully your way in.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118986341#Comment_118986341

No vehicle should enter the yellow box unless they can leave it or if turning right. One dickhead blocking it doesn't justify another having to bully their way in.

Burt Renaults

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118986367#Comment_118986367

Unfortunately, when driving a bus, you often have little choice but to make your intentions extremely clear and be very assertive when changing lanes in slow-moving or stationary traffic. My preference was always to open the window and put my hand out to thank them in advance. 99% of the time, it worked. Mainly because most people who block yellow boxes do so out of inattentiveness, rather than to deliberately impede others.

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118985283#Comment_118985283

that tiny little shop is a storeroom for bathroom suites? are you sure about that?

d51984

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118985701#Comment_118985701

I agree, just saying quick and easy solution. You know this country, few years consulting another one or two planning bla bla bla, couple of million here and there.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118984684#Comment_118984684

I suspect they're probably a "28 year old swedish girl".

Noble Korhedron

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118983472#Comment_118983472

I'm not sure I agree with incentivising the drivers like that but I understand why you make the point...

Cookie_Monster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118984934#Comment_118984934

gardai wont do it properly though, there will be all the usual BS with discretion etc, individual gardai simply cannot be trusted to correctly fine people every time.

Mobile cameras (ie on buses) that auto forward the data is the only way for it to work. fixed cameras will only solve the problem is very particular areas.

Cookie_Monster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118985754#Comment_118985754

thats an easy fix, just set the parks to 10 minutes limits, or 30 or 60 or what have you. if there is 14 of them, remove say 3 for a loading bay.

65535

"there’s no reason why all bus lanes shouldn’t be 24/7" - there is, some bus lanes, actually most bus lanes where I live only have 1 bus every hour maximum 9 to 5 mon to fri and some bus lanes are so short that they are comical and cause problems for traffic that is not local.

Macy0161

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118984684#Comment_118984684

This really shows how f*cked up our attitude is to Road Traffic law enforcement. Wanting bus lanes policed is targeting drivers - well yes, but only those knowingly doing something illegal!

whippet

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118987136#Comment_118987136

that isn't quite what I said - I just pointed out that the OP has twice in two days started threads targeting drivers. I made no comment on anything related to driving in bus lanes

Also - 24 hour bus lanes across the board - total nonsense.