Murders of two gay men in Sligo

TooTired123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121285359#Comment_121285359

Plenty of Christian denominations welcome practising homosexuals. Catholicism doesn’t but C of E has homosexual priests in parishes who are in same sex relationships. I’m kind of surprised that you are posting the way you are but seem blissfully unaware of the facts?

TooTired123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121285671#Comment_121285671

But not just religions but the whole of society used to hate and fear homosexuals. They also hated and feared black people and disabled people.

None of that has any relevance to what’s happening here and now.

I can’t see the point you’re trying to make at all.

tesla_newbie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121285671#Comment_121285671

Example ?

tesla_newbie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121285666#Comment_121285666

Name a western ( nominally Christian) country that uses their holy book as a framework for law and general society

tesla_newbie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121285972#Comment_121285972

We didn’t “ hate and fear “ black people , we just never encountered them, not the same at all

PokeHerKing

So being gay is OK in some Christian sects as long as you're not enjoying it🤣

Look lads/lassies whether you're willing to accept it or not, according to all the bibles homosexuality is a sin.

The Catholic Church ran this country not too long ago. Western society has brought the church kicking and screaming into the modern world.

The middle east/parts of Asia have not evolved society wise to do the same woth whatever sky wizard that particular country adhere to.

But whether it's Islam, Christianity or judeasm its just different cheeks of the same arse.

If you think its not you're delusional.

Religion is predicated on division and rigid adherence.

Grayson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121286071#Comment_121286071

I'd actually say the majority of christian churches around the world are anti LGBT. Look at eastern europe, russia, africa and even the USA.

PokeHerKing

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121286029#Comment_121286029

I mean are you from Ireland??

pcardin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121286029#Comment_121286029

Ireland and Poland

tesla_newbie

I don’t believe the folks who claim Islam has no more day to day effect on the lives of gay people than Christianity, actually believe a word they are saying

they just say it because it’s fashionable to say negative things about Christianity but the opposite to portray Islam in a negative light

Geuze

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121285432#Comment_121285432

https://www.irishimmigration.ie/how-to-become-a-citizen/become-an-irish-citizen-by-naturalisation/

Adults

Criteria for applying as an adult:

• Are of full age (aged 18 or over, or if aged under 18 you are married)
• Meet the relevant conditions for residence*
• Intend to reside in the State or if you are spouse/civil partner of an Irish citizen intend to reside on the island of Ireland
• Are of good character
• Will attend a citizenship ceremony and make the declaration of fidelity.

*Under Sections 15, 15A and 15B applicants are required to have one year’s continuous residence in the State immediately prior to the date of application. This requirement is specific to the year prior to the date of application. However applicants can be absent from the State during this period for up to 70 days either as one period or an aggregate of periods. An additional period of 30 days absence from the State due to exceptional circumstances may also be considered e.g. exceptional circumstances relating to the applicant or a family member in the context of health requirements, employment, study and/or voluntary service abroad. Determining whether circumstances are accepted as exceptional is at the discretion of the Minister.

During the 8 years immediately preceding that period applicants must have a total residence in the State of 4 years. It must be clear to the Minister by any objective assessment that this jurisdiction has been the primary residence of the applicant for that period. Citizenship Division advises all applicants to provide as much information as possible in support of their application, bearing in mind also that each application will be assessed on its own merits.

The Minister can only make a decision once an application is received and processed and the specific circumstances of the case are assessed in light of the relevant statutory provisions in place at that time.

tesla_newbie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121286111#Comment_121286111

Really, how does ( and has ) the Bible effect how you live your daily life?

HerrKuehn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121286129#Comment_121286129

Right, so absolutely minimal requirements. Giving someone citizenship grants them rights and confers obligations on the state that we would not otherwise have. It should be a lot more difficult to get in my opinion, maybe something more like the Swiss model. I am firmly of the belief that any trade/deal should have benefits for both parties. I see the benefit to the receiver of citizenship in this case, I can't for the life of me figure out how the country benefits (which should be the most important thing).

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121286029#Comment_121286029

PREAMBLE

In the Name of the Most Holy Trinity, from Whom is all authority and to Whom, as our final end, all actions both of men and States must be referred,

We, the people of Éire,

Humbly acknowledging all our obligations to our Divine Lord, Jesus Christ, Who sustained our fathers through centuries of trial,

Gratefully remembering their heroic and unremitting struggle to regain the rightful independence of our Nation,

And seeking to promote the common good, with due observance of Prudence, Justice and Charity, so that the dignity and freedom of the individual may be assured, true social order attained, the unity of our country restored, and concord established with other nations,

Do hereby adopt, enact, and give to ourselves this Constitution.

ARTICLE 6

1 All powers of government, legislative, executive and judicial, derive, under God, from the people, whose right it is to designate the rulers of the State and, in final appeal, to decide all questions of national policy, according to the requirements of the common good.

ARTICLE 12

8 The President shall enter upon his office by taking and subscribing publicly, in the presence of members of both Houses of the Oireachtas, of Judges of the Supreme Court, of the Court of Appeal and of the High Court, and other public personages, the following declaration:

"In the presence of Almighty God I do solemnly and sincerely promise and declare that I will maintain the Constitution of Ireland and uphold its laws, that I will fulfil my duties faithfully and conscientiously in accordance with the Constitution and the law, and that I will dedicate my abilities to the service and welfare of the people of Ireland. May God direct and sustain me."

ARTICLE 31

4 Every member of the Council of State shall at the first meeting thereof which he attends as a member take and subscribe a declaration in the following form:

"In the presence of Almighty God I do solemnly and sincerely promise and declare that I will faithfully and conscientiously fulfil my duties as a member of the Council of State."

ARTICLE 34

6    1° Every person appointed a judge under this Constitution shall make and subscribe the following declaration:

"In the presence of Almighty God I do solemnly and sincerely promise and declare that I will duly and faithfully and to the best of my knowledge and power execute the office of Chief Justice (or as the case may be) without fear or favour, affection or ill-will towards any man, and that I will uphold the Constitution and the laws. May God direct and sustain me."

ARTICLE 44

1 The State acknowledges that the homage of public worship is due to Almighty God. It shall hold His Name in reverence, and shall respect and honour religion.

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121286029#Comment_121286029

All national schools in Ireland are funded by the taxpayer, but 90% are controlled by the Roman Catholic Church and most of the rest are controlled by the Church of Ireland. They are legally permitted to not hire teachers of the "wrong" religion or to fire them if they lose their faith or convert.

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121286130#Comment_121286130

Ever been in a court room?

If you are a non-Christian everyone will know. I wouldn't want to be a defendant in that position, what if there are bible basher(s) on the jury?

In a secular country no-one would have to declare what their religion is, or is not, in order to access a State service - whether that's education, health, or justice. What's one of the first questions they ask you when registering at A&E?

I take it you don't have kids, because in over 95% of primary schools they can make a song and dance if you try to opt your kid out of the daily religious brainwashing.

Ireland pretends to be a secular country but it's nothing of the sort.

pcardin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121286130#Comment_121286130

@Hotblack Desiato perfectly answered. That's how. Is this normal, Karl? Its fng 2023 outside Karl!!!

PokeHerKing

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121286130#Comment_121286130

I think your issue is you're a religious fanatic as well.

I am not. I despise organised religion. Its the scourge of humanity. Mostly because its ran by humans. Usually the dumbest ones.

Either way, it's nothing to do with fashion. I'm not a lefty, I'm probably a card carrying racist to most lefties.

That doesn't mean I'll be swallowing any $hite claiming Christianity is more tolerant than other religions when its blatantly not.

All that's happened is the western countries where christanity dominates have become more enlightened than the countries were Islam dominates.

Christian followers/preachers have softened their cough somewhat for survival, nothing to do with the underlying teachings of the religion.

tesla_newbie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121286268#Comment_121286268

I repeat , how does the Bible effect how you live your daily life?

do you actually believe that people check the constitution daily?, that scroll demonstration isn’t near as clever as you think it is

Beechwoodspark

completely ridiculous that some posters on this seem to be saying

liberal Christianity or liberal Judaism/Hinduism/etc etc

is the very same as strict Sunni Islam

in terms of citizens rights and effect on society.

Compare Manhattan/Berlin for example with Saudi or Qatar

tesla_newbie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121286336#Comment_121286336

“ you’re a religious fanatic “

hysterical !

that sure gave me a laugh, I’m atheist and haven’t been to mass in twenty years and more

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121286232#Comment_121286232

In Switzerland you have to pass a language test to get permanent residency, never mind citizenship.

They have a church tax though! Brother-in-law was living there for a few years before he realised and opted out. Cost him a fair wedge, no refunds...

Caquas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121285402#Comment_121285402

I have been asking about Palani's true motives in this case - not just the Gardai's vague categorisation of "hate crime" or the speculation in the media about "homophobia" - and I am astonished that no one has drawn attention to the comments by Palani's defence counsel where he told the court that Palani had instructed him to offer "an apology". What the victims and their families received reads like a thinly-veiled insult.

https://www.irishtimes.com/crime-law/courts/2023/10/23/double-murderer-yousef-palani-jailed-for-life-for-attacks-on-gay-men-spurred-by-hostility-and-prejudice/

Defence Counsel began by saying Palani

struggled to comprehend and understand the enormity of what he had done.

You might think that means Palani is so overwhelmed by the horror of his crimes that he had to do a great deal of soul-searching but it could equally mean something very different: that despite the best efforts of many people, Palani still does recognise the enormity of his guilt.

But what really stings is the next sentence from his defence counsel:

“He recognises the pain, loss and suffering on the deceased and the injured party. He accepts he acted grotesquely and without explanation or justification,” said the lawyer.

So Palani understands fully that his grotesque violence inflicted terrible suffering and loss on his victims and their family. But he does not owe them a word of contrition or explanation. You might think the phrase "without justification" means that Palani now realises that his actions were unjustifiable. But it could equally mean that Palani has chosen not to justify his actions to his victims or to the court. He "accepts that he acted grotesquely" i.e. he does not dispute that his violence was grotesque but of course that was his intention i.e. not just to murder but to appal and terrify.

Defence counsel comments were not reported in full but if this is the essence of his remarks, then Palani offered no apology. He offered no words of contrition, no wish to make amends, no renunciation of the evil that drove him to murder and, most worryingly, no intention to change his ways.

Grayson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121286387#Comment_121286387

His teachers said he was intellectually challenged. So that might be part of it.

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121286355#Comment_121286355

I can't aspire to becoming president, a judge, or a member of the council of state merely because I am not a christian - do you think that is somehow acceptable?

Read my other posts. Our health, education and justice systems are completely infested with unwarranted religious influence and control.

Oh and if you don't think those constitutional clauses matter at all (which is a pretty odd thing to think, as it's the basis of all our law) you'd agree that we should just remove them all asap - right?

PokeHerKing

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121286361#Comment_121286361

OK well from an Agnostic to an atheist I'm in no way trying to be fashionable by claiming Christianity is just as abhorrent as Islam.

I'm simply saying it's followers have moved on from acting out christianities worst teachings.

Muslims haven't moved on from theirs yet.

HerrKuehn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121286378#Comment_121286378

I think church tax is a brilliant idea, Germany has it too. You would find out how many are actual Christians if they have to pay 1.5% of their salary to the church to use the services, like getting married in the church. My expectation would be that a lot in Ireland would opt out.

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121286360#Comment_121286360

It's only different because of long and hard battles over centuries in Western nations to put the Christian church into its fcuking box. A process which most muslim-majority countries have not even started.

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121283951#Comment_121283951

The nearly €400k in cash ( thought it said €300,000 in the news but I can't remember, but seems it was a lot of cash anyway ) is extra-ordinary. Who keeps €300,000 or €400,000 in a house and where did they get it? Could the accused have either stolen some of it from victim(s) , which is unlikely, or blackmailed someone? Or proceeds of crime or drug dealing? Has to be some explanation anyway, but may be perfectly legal. I expect he would have been asked by the Gardai, I was not following the case, what did he say I wonder?

Beechwoodspark

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121286476#Comment_121286476

maybe that conversation will never start in Islam. Who knows.

all I can say is I would hate to live in a strict Islamic dominated country.