Murders of two gay men in Sligo

Patrick2010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122944328#Comment_122944328

Think this is the one…

https://www.ihrec.ie/commission-welcomes-significant-judgment-on-the-human-rights-of-international-protection-applicants-in-landmark-case/

Commission welcomes significant judgment on the human rights of international protection applicants in landmark case

01/08/2024

High Court rules that the State has failed in its duty to provide for basic needs of international protection applicants, breaching their right to dignity

The Irish Human Rights and Equality Commission (the ‘Commission’) has welcomed today’s High Court judgment, confirming that the State has failed in its duty to provide for the basic needs, including accommodation, for international protections applicants (‘IP applicants’) who have recently arrived in Ireland seeking asylum.

These judicial review proceedings were brought by the Commission, in its own name, against the State. They were brought in respect of a class of persons, in this case IP applicants who were not offered accommodation when they made their asylum claim. The Commission sought declarations from the High Court that the failure to provide for the basic needs of IP applicants breached their human rights. The Commission also sought mandatory orders from the High Court to compel the State to fulfil its legal obligations to provide for the basic needs of IP applicants. This includes the provision of accommodation, food and access to basic hygiene facilities.

Peregrinus

OK, that's not the Citizens Information Board; that's the Irish Human Rights and Equality Commission.

The law establishing and governing the Commission gives it functions that include:

• reviewing the adequacy and effectiveness of law and practice in the State relating to the protection of human rights and equality
• engaging in court proceedings that involve or are concerned with the human rights or equality rights of any person 
• providing practical assistance, including legal assistance, to persons in vindicating their rights
• taking proceedings in any courtot obtain relief ofin respect of any matter concerning the human rights of any person or class of persons

Basically, taking legal action to protect human rights and equality is one of their core functions, and the notion that there would be some kind of carve-out preventing them from from taking legal action against the state or a state agency would be just bizarre. Central to the concept of democracy is the rule of law; the state has to obey the law, and the law must be enforceable against the state. If a body set up to protect human rights wasn't allowed to protect them against the state, that would make it pretty useless, since the power of the state is vast and human rights abuses by states are much the most serious human rights abuses.

Packrat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122944328#Comment_122944328

See the mistake we make is in thinking that people who look like us, sound like us and mostly act normally, want the same things as us.

Things like a successful state, things like proper use of that state's resources for the benefit of that state's people etc. Things like the protection of that state from the geo- political forces which would destroy all small nation states.

As evidenced by some posts above, there are a significant number of people for whom some wire has become crossed, something went wrong.

Whilst appearing normal, they are in fact filled with a deep deep ingrained hate for the country which reared fed and educated them, and wish nothing more than it's total destruction. Any action which weakens it, divides it, undermines it is to be supported by these people. They'll dress it up as sympathy, as empathy for less well off minorities, as anything expendable to achieve the goals.

Reality - it's mental illness or malicious intent and should be treated as such.

The people and governments who fail to see their motive and continue to fund this malicious action are the useful idiots.

There's a fairly typical example right above... advocating for, prevaricating, and"explaining"

Hotblack Desiato

Ah the old "anyone who doesn't agree with me is a fifth columnist / mentally ill" thing. At least you didn't use the word traitor… yet

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122948069#Comment_122948069

They'll dress it up as sympathy, as empathy for less well off minorities, as anything expendable to achieve the goals. 

Reality - it's mental illness or malicious intent and should be treated as such.

That same standard applies equally to you though, based upon your idea that:

See the mistake we make is in thinking that people who look like us, sound like us and mostly act normally, want the same things as us.

At least you’re admitting that it’s your mistake. Plenty more people default to blaming other people for their own failures. But then you’re attempting to suggest there’s something wrong in having it explained how Irish law which governs Irish society actually functions, so I’m given to wondering who’s the useful idiot you’re referring to who’s actually attempting to undermine Irish law, fuelled by a deep hatred for the country, yada yada…

Obviously you’re definitely not going to admit that’s you though, you’re obviously dressing it up as something else, like empathy for the taxpayer or some other nonsense. Regardless of anyone’s immigration status or whether or not they’re a taxpayer (or in this instance, an alleged attempt to evade paying tax, which is why Revenue have an interest in the case), they are still entitled to legal representation provided for by a system which exists in this country for the purposes of doing so. It’s a system that prevents the overreach of the State which would otherwise ride roughshod over people who have no means to defend themselves. It exists for your protection as much as it does anyone else’s.

In this particular instance, which comes about only as the result of an investigation into their son’s criminal actions, the father pursuing a judicial review of the various agents of the State’s actions, is an entirely separate matter:

Mr Palani submits that he applied for Jobseeker’s Allowance in August 2006 and for Disability Allowance in February 2021.

The applicant says in his statement of grounds that he attended a Garda interview in May of last year. He says a final disallowing decision was made last January and this was followed by a February decision seeking the repayment of all monies in respect of the claims. Mr Palani’s lawyers submit that the investigation into the applicant’s allowances had been carried out unlawfully and without a permitting certificate to do so.

In February, the applicant’s solicitor wrote to the relevant State parties requesting “any evidence for concluding that the applicant was engaged in criminal conduct and might engage in threats and intimidation of deciding officers” as defined in the Act.

https://www.irishtimes.com/crime-law/courts/2024/12/02/father-of-murderer-yousef-palani-challenges-decision-to-stop-jobseekers-and-disability-benefits/

Ederly people hoarding substantial sums in cash ‘under the mattress’ isn’t remotely an uncommon phenomenon. Where they got it and whether or not they’re attempting to evade paying tax on it though, that’s an entirely separate matter which may, or may not be a matter which Revenue will take an interest in:

HOARDERS of cash who have not paid tax on their money will fall foul of the euro under an agreement between the banks and the Revenue Commissioners.

When the new currency is introduced next January, the financial institutions must report people attempting to convert large sums which are suspected to be undeclared to the authorities.

Amounts above £10,000 must immediately be notified to the Revenue Commissioners.

…

Last month, the merchant bank UBS Warburg published a report called Coming out from under the mattress: when the euro meets the cash economy.

The study said there would be an increase in the spending on luxury goods and properties, as some people try to offload their money before the new currency is introduced.

In Spain, where the black market accounts for a large slice of the economy, analysts have already detected signs of the 'mattress effect' in the form of booming prices for apartments and homes in coastal areas.

https://m.independent.ie/business/irish/banks-to-alert-revenue-if-mattress-cash-offered/26076589.html

I’m reminded of a recent case in which a pair of elderly sisters who had lived rather frugally all their adult lives on welfare payments when one of them passed away recently, their relatives were quite surprised by how much they had in their post office savings accounts - it was enough to provide for the remaining sisters care for the remainder of her life, and then some! 😳

Packrat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122949039#Comment_122949039

And another...

I'm actually not going to comment further on this thread as it's become yet another victim of the general infestation.

Irish Aris

Mod Warning:

@Packrat consider this your last free warning. Any more posts like the last couple you made will earn you a break from the forum.

Thank you

Hotblack Desiato

I’m reminded of a recent case in which a pair of elderly sisters who had lived rather frugally all their adult lives on welfare payments when one of them passed away recently, their relatives were quite surprised by how much they had in their post office savings accounts - it was enough to provide for the remaining sisters care for the remainder of her life, and then some! 😳

Which is fine and dandy - if they were claiming social insurance benefits rather than means-tested social welfare payments.

For means-tested payments, savings are disregarded up to a point - that point is well below €350k though.

StormForce13

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122945727#Comment_122945727

Thanks, but that isn't that one. I'm pretty certain that the case I'm thinking of was funded by the Citizens Information Board. (It caught my eye because I used to volunteer with them before Covid.)

Peregrinus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122950048#Comment_122950048

A wild guess here says that Palani might argue that he was (and is) entitled to the social assistance benefits because the €350k, although found in his house, is not his money. ("Minding it for a friend", which in Palani's circumstances is not quite as incredible as it would be in most other cases.)

The problem with that line of argument is that, while it might strengthen his case to be entitled to social assistance, it pretty much puts the kibosh on the case for the return of the money. ("If it's not your money, why are you asking us to return it to you? Let whoever owns it come and ask for it.")

No doubt more will emerge in the court proceedings as they progress.

JJayoo

Would there be anyway to find out if the money was saved up over time or has been accumulated recently through examining the notes.

hawley

Kurds have been massively favoured in Iraq, since the 2003 invasion. Not in any way likely that they were being discriminated against. Every single President of Iraq, since 2005, has been Kurdish, yet they only make up 17% of the population.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_presidents_of_Iraq

Peregrinus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122951360#Comment_122951360

There might. If the notes were all brand new, and had consecutive serial numbers, then obviously they haven't been painfully assembled over a long period of time.

But the converse isn't necesarily true. They could be a mixed bunch of used notes but still represent wealth that I acquired only last week by selling a car for cash, running a stash of heroin across a border or robbing a bank.

Per newspaper reports, the guards now believe that the money represents the proceeds of transferrable wealth that he (or someone else?) took with him when he left Iraq, e.g. in the form of gold, jewelry or other small but valuable possessions. Getting what wealth you can out in that form would be a time-honoured tactic employed by refugees.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122951408#Comment_122951408

Large numbers of Kurdish refugees have fled Iraq. Even if it were truth that Kurds are "massivly favoured" in Iraq (which it isn't) people don't become refugees only because of persecution by the government. At the time the Palanis came to Ireland, and for many years afterwards, the Iraqi government was unable to protect large swathes of its citizens, even if it wanted to, and there was a continuing war in Kurdistan between Kurds seeking autonomy and the Iraqi government not willing to grant it.

Montage of Feck

Don't really care if the money is legit or not, they have shown themselves by their actions not to be fit to live in this country. Seize the money and deport them, it's not very fair that people that can't abide by our laws and customs get funded by us.

volchitsa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122951424#Comment_122951424

Per newspaper reports, the guards now believe that the money represents the proceeds of transferrable wealth that he (or someone else?) took with him when he left Iraq, e.g. in the form of gold, jewelry or other small but valuable possessions.

If that is the case there is still the problem of getting social welfare payments in Ireland based on fraudulent claims about their personal wealth.

Peregrinus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122951478#Comment_122951478

Yes, assuming it's his money.

To be clear, I'm not saying there's no issue here and that everything is fine. There clearly are biq questions that need to be explored. The court proceedings are how those issues will be explored. I'm just responding to all the people who are shocked — shocked, I tell you — at the notion that there should be any court proceedings at all.