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30k speed limits for all urban areas on the way

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Comments

  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    This is an interesting one, higher points for driving offenses during bank holiday weekends




  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 37,933 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    So are they intending to enforce the Road Traffic laws?



  • Registered Users Posts: 27,688 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    I'm not quite sure how to break this to you, but this isn't personal. It's not all about you. I don't really remember what prior exchanges we might have had or what grudge you might be carrying, and I don't really care to be honest.

    You used terminology that indicates the absent driver syndrome. I've no idea what it was intentional or a habit or a slip of the tongue. It doesn't really matter either way. I pointed out that vehicles don't do things of their own accord. There is one or more driver responsible behind all such situations.

    It's no more and no less than that.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,548 ✭✭✭SeanW


    It would probably be more like 300 million km, but at least even this would be more accurate than a version one of you might come up with, which would be more like:

    "Bad thing happens, Irelands (3.2 million) drivers collectively to blame"



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  • Registered Users Posts: 348 ✭✭loco_scolo


    So you're an idealist then? "...in a perfect imaginary world, in my head, where people live in peace, sing kumbaya, use footpaths like they're supposed to and follow the safe cross code (lol), then I can continue to drive at 50kmh through the heart of towns and cities."

    It's funny how you complement a poster for their rationale and constructive commentary while distancing your argument from the vast majority of urban areas in Ireland by stating "everything else you introduce is outside the scope of that statement".



  • Registered Users Posts: 348 ✭✭loco_scolo


    Back to my drunk in the street example, which you really seem to enjoy, Ballsbridge is a great example of my point. Thanks for bringing it up.

    Think of a summer's Friday evening, sun is out, the streets are buzzing, offices spilling out, something happening in the RDS, all the pubs, cafes, restaurants along the main road are busy.

    Invariably, you have all sorts of people in various states of distraction and soberness. Thankfully 30kmh limits will make the streets safer for these people.



  • Registered Users Posts: 167 ✭✭mode1990


    I'll believe it when I see it being enforced , Dublins Quays from OConnell Bridge to Merchants qy had this imposed a few years ago , never came across a go safe or garda checking speed in that stretch , just lip service , as for increasing penalty points for bank holiday offences will be struck down at the first challenge , when in Dublin did you last come across a traffic cop on a bike , too busy ferrying CD's etc to the airport !



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Legislation for the lowering of speed limits has been approved by the cabinet

    The devil will be in the details and criteria/classification will be crucial for successful rollout but this is a massive step forward.



  • Registered Users Posts: 27,688 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Let's all watch out for those lethal cyclists mixing with pedestrians




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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    An excellent article tackling some of the misinformation around the 30k limits coming soon




  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 47,840 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    i see they've started the work to put speed bumps in on delwood road - but to be fair, from what i can see, there's been a noticeable reduction in speed on the road since the speed limit changed. not to the 30km/h limit in general, but i've been staying with my folks for two weeks (while my house is being rewired) and i've only seen one motorist trigger the speed limit sign higher than 50km/h. most people stick in or around 40 or so at a very rough guess.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Progress takes time, well illustrated below for London and their speed reduction rollout




  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 47,840 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    So the RSA seem to have launched a new ad campaign for 30km/h limits. I haven't watched the TV ad yet, but the poster is all sorts of confusing. What is a '30k town '? Why is there no indication at all in the image shown of what the ad campaign is about?

    https://www.rsa.ie/road-safety/campaigns/30km-h-in-urban-areas



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,445 ✭✭✭Beta Ray Bill


    Yep!

    I noticed this tripe on the DART this morning. I'll campaign again to oppose it .

    It's already off to a bad start.

    It's such rubbish. It's incredible the amount of people that opposed 30k speed limits across the city yet here they go again. I'd love to know who's pushing it. Like what is their name? and what is their job in the council/RSA?

    The consultation report found that 46 percent of roughly 4,600 respondents were against the principle of expanding the 30 km/h speed limit, while 41 percent were in support, and 9 percent were in support with some exceptions.

    People don't want it, why do they keep pushing?

    Is there legislation about how many times a government or government body can ask the same question?

    Or is it a case of, "We're going to keep asking you until you agree."?



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,445 ✭✭✭Beta Ray Bill


    There's no mention of "what" the exceptions are, so no way to gauge the 9%

    So it's either: 46% against, 41% in favour, with 13% undecided OR: 55% against, 41% in favour, with 4% undecided.

    You can't be in support "with exceptions"... You're either in support or you're not

    Majority are against.

    Post edited by Beta Ray Bill on


  • Registered Users Posts: 348 ✭✭loco_scolo


    The survey was about the "principle of expanding the 30 km/h speed limit", so people 'agreeing with some exceptions' is an agreement of it in principle.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,445 ✭✭✭Beta Ray Bill


    I think the wording is biased, but maybe that's just me.

    Like "exception" could mean "I agree with it so long as it doesn't affect the area I live in or the roads I use", which basically means you disagree with it.

    Or "I agree with it so long as there's no speed vans ever around my area".... IE you disagree. Or I agree with it outside of schools and very busy areas with children but not everywhere... which again means you disagree with it as we already have that. (There's a 15km/h sign outside my estate like)

    Doesn't mention any of that, so you cannot assume otherwise.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,548 ✭✭✭SeanW


    It should also be noted that the Love 30 "consultation" was loaded with leading statements and was more of a propaganda drive than a genuine consultation.



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  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 37,933 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle




  • Registered Users Posts: 8,548 ✭✭✭SeanW


    As I remember, it was all puff pieces about how great 30kph speed limits would be but with no context. For example, their leaflets waxed lyrically about road safety but left out how Ireland had among the best road safety records per capita in the world, or how most road fatalities in Ireland occur in rural areas, or how fatalities are so rare that they have to be measured in the low single digits per billion-vehicle kilometres.

    So its safe to assume that the purpose of the information provided with the consultation was not to inform the reader, give both sides and allow the reader to make up their own mind, but rather to lead the reader to the "right" conclusion. Yet even despite that, most of the respondents indicated some or total scepticism.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 37,933 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    So in your view and using Dublin as an example, is it currently safe for children to walk and cycle to school and, if not, why so?



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,548 ✭✭✭SeanW


    If it were about schools, then the plan would have been to have timed limits surrounding schools at the start and end of the school day. I don't know of any schools that have children coming and going 24/7.

    As to whether walking and cycling is safe in Dublin, I was a daily pedestrian there for nearly a decade. There were no shortage of people out walking, and the footpaths acted as de-facto cycle lanes.

    At any rate, the data I provided showed that few have any real reason to complain, and it would have helped people to come to their own conclusions if practical real world data were included in the consultation documents. But I guess some things just weren't "relevant."



  • Registered Users Posts: 348 ✭✭loco_scolo


    Just to be pedantic for the sake of argument (I've just had 5hours of screaming kids around), but you can't argue that "agreeing with exceptions" really means "disagreeing". What it clearly means is "agreeing in principle", which was the actual question asked.

    I've no doubt though the question was purposely vague and basically pointless without any details. I don't think anyone would be opposed 'in principle' to reducing speed limits when it can be easily justified.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 37,933 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    I'm not at all trying to suggest it is about schools: I'm merely using one example of vulnerable users and whether you believe it is safe for them to cycle and walk to school. There are obviously many other potential case studies but I'm asking about this one.

    I do note however that despite your three paragraphs of bluster and obfuscation, you did not try to answer the question - go on, let us know if you think it is safe for them given that you dispute the claim that making the urban limit 30km/h isn't about making the roads safer



  • Registered Users Posts: 348 ✭✭loco_scolo


    Focusing only on deaths ignores all the serious, life-altering injuries that occur on our roads. Thankfully deaths here are now relatively low, which means we can also focus on reducing serious injuries.

    In any case, if you measure anything in "per billions", it can easily be claimed to be "rare". A useless metric people like to reference to minimise the impact of cars. Even in Malaysia, that has 8x higher deaths per capita than Ireland, there are "only" 25 deaths per billion-vehicle kilometer...

    If you care to use a meaningful metric, Ireland has 32% higher deaths per 100k cars versus the UK, despite having the same number of deaths per capita. Meaning cars disproportionately kill people in Ireland compared to the UK.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,225 ✭✭✭Unrealistic


    Arguing with him in good faith is pointless. This is the guy who simultaneously dismisses the concept that Irish road conditions discourage walking and cycling (even though we are documented as having among the highest number of 2km journeys completed by car, rather than walking or cycling, in Europe) while at the same time pronouncing that my kids and my neighbours' kids shouldn't be allowed to walk five minutes to their school as it is 'too dangerous' to walk on village roads with no footpath and only cars should be permitted to travel on those roads.

    His whole position is based on illogical dogma and there's no point trying to convince him with facts.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,548 ✭✭✭SeanW


    @Unrealistic Like I said, I was a daily pedestrian in Ireland's major cities for a decade. And yes, anywhere you have a footpath, I regard it as generally safe to be a pedestrian. So yes, in that capacity, I don't see much reason to complain. And I have no objection to building footpaths or (de-jure) cycle lanes where needed.

    @Seth Brundle Well you mentioned schools in Dublin specifically. More broadly, the fact that people aren't dying like everywhere else in the world, means there isn't really much to complain about. Although the poster below may have some reason.

    @loco_scolo It sounds like you need to get on to your local authority about building footpaths in your village. Of course, if you live OUTSIDE your local village then things get trickier as you might be more in a rural area than in your village itself.

    Of course, all 3 of you missed my point which had nothing to do with 30kph speed limits per-se. My point was that DCC's "consultation" should have included a broader variety of information for the people who were to partake in it, providing both the pros and the cons of 30kph limits, so that people could make up their own mind based on all the information.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 348 ✭✭loco_scolo


    Do you realize you didn't respond to anything in my actual comment? Just some dribble about me living in a village.



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