30k speed limits for all urban areas on the way

Moves continue to roll this out as a default for all urban areas

There is a strong case for having a default 30km/h speed limit in urban areas — it would mean that councils would have to justify having higher limits on some roads rather than justifying low limits as in the current case — the Oireachtas Committee on Transport was told last week.

https://irishcycle.com/2022/03/09/oireachtas-committee-hears-benefit-of-lower-speeds-and-concerns-on-slow-action/

The Love30 campaign has been active in developing a case for this for many years.

https://www.love30.ie/

While this limit may not get rolled out today or tomorrow, support is growing for it at a significant rate.

It looks like its only a matter of time before it becomes the norm

GandhiwasfromBallyfermot

And rightfully so, as a pedestrian you're far more likely to survive being hit at 30kph vs 50kph. It'll save lives so a no brainer.

Burt Renaults

I'd expect a lot of objections from people who somehow have full driving licences, despite inexplicably thinking that it's really difficult to maintain a speed of 30km/h.

Ubbquittious

They should feck off with their speed limits and stop pursuing the anti-car agenda

Effects

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118758961#Comment_118758961

Yeah. Who needs speed limits anyway? Struggling motorists have had enough!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118758961#Comment_118758961

Who is "they"?

Burt Renaults

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118758961#Comment_118758961

It's impossible to know whether this is a parody of car bores, or an actual stupid opinion.

Stephen_Maturin

I predict a calm and reasoned debate on this topic as ever.

30kph as a default is stupid, it’s too low. I’ve also seen little to no public support for at all apart from the cycling lobby.

The “safety” argument always gets trotted out in these cases because its proponents think it gives them a morally unassailable position, but this is not the case - we already have some of the safest roads in Europe, this measure would be overkill. The reality is that this is nothing to do with safety and more to do with making cars more unattractive vehicles.

Also would the limit apply to bicycles as a matter of interest?

cnocbui

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118758411#Comment_118758411

There have only been 2 reported deaths, ever, of pedestrians involved in collisions at 10kph so really 30 is too high and they should reduce it to 10kph and stop with the half measures.

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118759029#Comment_118759029

Also would the limit apply to bicycles as a matter of interest?

speed limits don't apply to bicycles, only to motorised vehicles.

patrickbrophy18

With the prevailing mentality of "you're far more likely to survive being hit at 30 vs 50 KMPH" or variations of it, you'd swear many pedestrians have resigned themselves to the fact they will be run over.

Look both ways each and every time before crossing the road and you won't be hit at all. OR, if you are visually impaired, listen out for on coming traffic or cross at a designated crosswalk. While I am constantly looking out for rogue or clueless road crossers, many other motorists mightn't be as observant.

Seriously, anyone who crosses the road without even looking is on their way to recieve the Darwin Award.

magicbastarder

anyway, i'll make my usual contribution - right now, at nearly 9pm on a wednesday night, google maps is giving an estimate for driving from the main entrance of DCU to the main entrance of UCD - 11.9km, 11km of which is on roads of 50km/h (or above, for a brief stretch on the N11), of 25 minutes.

that's an average speed of 28.5km/h, several hours after rush hour has finished. it's not speed limits which slows urban traffic down, it's urban traffic and lights which do.

Unrealistic

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118759029#Comment_118759029

There's a huge difference between roads having a low number of deaths and roads being 'safe'.

A big factor in Ireland's relatively low number of road deaths is because a large portion of the population views roads as being unsafe for anyone outside a car so you have fewer people walking and cycling than in many other countries. Between that, and a public transport system that varies between mediocre and non-existent, we have a reliance on cars that means even short journeys are driven here to a much greater extent than the EU average.

Measuring death rates only, to the exclusion of all other relevant safety measurements, has the perverse outcome of rewarding a culture where roads are perceived as being hostile by a large portion of the population such that they choose to only use them when encased in a protective metal box.

Unrealistic

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118759465#Comment_118759465

Good advice, I'm sure, but not much use to those injured and killed while still on the footpath, or walking on rural roads with no footpaths.

reniwren

I can only assume that this would sway more people toward scooter/bike use of the speed limit is close to their limits anyway

Jeremy Sproket

This news is absolutely wonderful news !

I hope this will apply everywhere in all the suburbs. I hope to see it rolled out soon in the suburb of Fingal I live in. Hopefully this will be enforced by omnipresent static average speed cameras.

Jeremy Sproket

For those who are complaining, you do realise that most modern cars have cruise control or a speed limit warning?

Mine can be activated at speeds ≥30 km/h. So no issue.

MrMusician18

Speed limits don't work in urban environments. You should design the street for the appropriate speed. Slap a 30km/h limit on a wide two lane highway and no one will stick to it without constant enforcement.

Aren't all new cars coming with GPS speed limiters by law soon though?

magicbastarder

that's assuming the chips to govern the speed can be produced, i guess.

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118759465#Comment_118759465

utterly classic shifting of responsibility from those creating the danger, onto those experiencing the danger.

They never tend to enforce speed limits in these 30 zones. I think they know themselves that it's nonsense.

patrickbrophy18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118759854#Comment_118759854

I am well aware of this as I found myself at the mercy of speedy traffic on the country roads of Dublin 24 when I did a couple of brisk evening walks beyond the confines of Citywest after work and it was terrifying. No footpaths or soft shoulders and blind corners galore. I never did these walks again.

On the other hand, I do feel perfectly safe on the urban sidewalks of Dublin City where I mostly cross at designated spots or where and when it is safe to do so. Conversely, many of my fellow pedestrians have their heads buried in their phones at crucial points, are so drunk or drugged out of it and step out into the path of moving traffic or just step out because they feel entitled to.

Now, drivers who wind up crashing into footpaths at speed nevermind injuring/killing pedestrians in the process have no business behind the wheel period.

km991148

Do we really have crosswalks, curbs and sidewalks in Ireland now?

I find that more irritating than 30kmph limits.

patrickbrophy18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118760047#Comment_118760047

Tell me then, are trains creating danger when people stupidly walk out in front of them?

Do you think pedestrians shouldn't take an ounce of responsibility when negotiating urban streets?

You only experience danger if you are woeffully unobservant or aren't street smart.

Yeah, cars can be weapons in the wrong hands and an already large amount of onus is on drivers on behalf and for the safety of pedestrians and cyclists as well as other motorists.

It is because of the ambiguity of responsibility among pedestrians that jaywalking has been banned in many parts of the world and rightly so. It eradicates the double-standard seen in many pedestrians where they claim victimhood regardless of how unobservant they were.

magicbastarder

trains? do you want help carrying those goalposts?

Del2005

There's zero enforcement of the current 30kph zones so what difference will making more 30kph zones do? It won't help the person who gets badly injured or killed by saying the driver was going too fast.

Travel Dublin's quays or the other 30kph zones and even Dublin Buses ignore it. Go into any housing estate in SDCC driving at 30kph and people are up your arse the whole time. My parents live in a 50kph estate in DLRDCC and they regularly have cars travelling much faster than that. Even the 30kph school zones are completely ignored.

30kph zones are good in theory but since there will be zero enforcement it's just politicians and lobby groups getting their name in headlines. It won't make the roads any safer.

Rket4000

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118760047#Comment_118760047

Anyone driving a car has an obligation to be aware of what's going on around them, whether it's road conditions, road signage, potential hazards etc. They must also look out for pedestrians, cyclists, and potentially hazardous situations. But everyone who is a road user has some responsibility too. That includes pedestrians. It's crazy how many people walk around on dark nights in badly lit environments in dark clothing making it nearly impossible to see them until you're nearly on top of them. A lot of the time they're "making a run for it" to cross the road ahead of incoming traffic. I saw a guy doing just that one night... The only thing that made him visible was the hi - viz coat...... on his dog!

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118759465#Comment_118759465

Yeah, why don’t people look both ways when they’re on the pavement.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/two-hospitalised-after-driver-loses-control-in-dublin-crash-mounts-pavement-1.4819832

And why don’t babies look both ways when crossing on green pedestrian lights?

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/circuit-court/man-given-suspended-sentence-for-breaking-red-light-and-hitting-baby-buggy-1.4816756?mode=sample

And why don’t men look both ways when crossing on the green pedestrian light to avoid the driver who had nine seconds to respond to the changing light?

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/circuit-court/woman-22-spared-jail-for-fatally-injuring-man-after-driving-through-red-light-1.4810252

Victim blame much, Patrick?

GLaDOS

Wasn't this proposed and rejected in the last year or two?

Edit: in Dublin specifically https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/dublin-city-council-rejects-blanket-ban-on-speeds-above-30km-h-1.4354842

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118762482#Comment_118762482

yes, and i think the gardai washed their hands of policing this.

zell12

2020- Galway Garda Chief Superintendent backs 30kmph citywide speed limit