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30k speed limits for all urban areas on the way

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 3,930 ✭✭✭spaceHopper


    Of all the way's to make our roads safer this isn't one of them

    Fix the roads they are in state

    Improve driver training and education

    Educate kids on a road safety, mine have been told endless times to look for cars, not to cross between cars... but they still don't do it consistently

    Get cyclists to uses high vis and lights that are better than pound shop sh1t

    Make it an offence to use a bike with defective brakes and enforce it.

    Get cyclist to slow down and obey the rules of the road.

    Cars aren't made to drive at 30 to do will take to much attention to staying under 30 instead of paying attention to what's around me.

    I had it drilled into me to read the road as far ahead as possible, my wife didn't you can see it in her driving. Getting her to drive at 30 will be battle of stop watching the speed and look out for that walker or bike or other car.

    Having a 30 limit will also annoy drivers to the point that they will rebel against the next road safety plan that might actually be a good idea



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,930 ✭✭✭spaceHopper



    My aunt had her arm broken by a guy on bike, old lady living next to my inlaws was hit buy one when she had green man to cross broke her arm and cracked her pelvis.

    My kids and a lot of others I see don't look when crossing, if they step out in front of a car do we blame them or driver.

    Less so now that bikes have disk brakes but it was very common to see bikes be broken or opened front brakes.

    Where I work you often can't see bikes in winter because they are to cheap to have lights that work. That should be enforced. I nearly hit one dressed as ninja in all black with no light in the pissing rain.

    Guy I work with has been in too many crashes where he was simply going to fast, somebody around him makes a mistake but he's going to fast to deal with it. He killed a dog on lead where the owner stepped of the path and he went into the lead dragging the dog for bit. He got doored when a car stopped infor of him. He came off when a lady stepp infot of him, he's alway going at max pace. All of these weren't his fault but if he's been going 10K slower they probable wouldn't have happened.

    Like I said I read the road but a lot of drives aren't great at it and are very reactionary so if they are focused on keeping below 30 their eye is not on the road. Also cars aren't geared to drive at 30 so it's not going to be easy.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,275 ✭✭✭km991148


    Sounds like if he had eaten some food instead of maybe going to fast then he would have had more energy for concentration.

    Still don't know what that's got to do with slowing vehicular traffic down in cities.


    It's actually mad argument to make. Assuming you meant "too fast" you are proposing that everyone else has to slow down because it takes drivers too much concentration to stick to a speed limit?

    I sincerely hope you don't drive.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,275 ✭✭✭km991148


    The only annoying thing about having to slow down the vehicles is that it means we all suffer and have to slow down. Obviously we can still cycle above 30 when the occasion arises, but still too many cars cluttering up the place.

    I'd be more in favour of charging for city centre vehicle use (if it would actually reduce cars on the road). Happy to pay a couple quid when I need to drive in.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,783 ✭✭✭Chris_5339762


    What I don't like is the tailgating, flashing, hooting and general abuse when I actually stick to the 30kmh, which is my diesel is annoying as its a bit too high rev for 2nd gear but a bit too low for 3rd gear.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I'd be more in favour of charging for city centre vehicle use (if it would actually reduce cars on the road). Happy to pay a couple quid when I need to drive in.

    Same as, for the few times I ever need to actually use a car/van these days.

    There are plans being progressed for congestion charging in Cork & Dublin, no idea how far along they are though. It was proposed as part of the 5 cities demand management strategy.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,167 ✭✭✭monkeybutter


    so you think that if the speed limit was reduced to 30k that the average speed would remain at 28.5 is it?



  • Registered Users Posts: 981 ✭✭✭Stephen_Maturin


    Less than a quarter of road fatalities occurred on an urban road last year.

    The safety argument for it is not sufficiently significant to justify such a measure. Proponents will try and say it’s for safety but it just isn’t.

    I’ll repeat what I said earlier in the thread, there is hardly any popular support for this measure - it’s a pet project for the cycling lobby. Can even see it in this thread, the vast majority posting in favour of this are also regular posters in the cycling forum. And yes, before you tell me, yes I know ye are also motorists as well as cyclists. Doesn’t change the fact that it’s cyclists in the main seeking this change.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I wonder if there was a 30k limit would the bus driver still have done this dangerous overtaking move of a mother and her child




  • Registered Users Posts: 4,275 ✭✭✭km991148


    I really dont think it is a cyclist thing. Cyclists generally want fewer cars on the roads, not slower.

    As a city dweller id be for it just for the noise pollution aspect and other benefits (less wear and tear, environmental etc). But tbh I really don't see the big deal - there really are few places you can drive in the city above 30 or so anyway and when it does - who will stop you? AGS? pft..



  • Registered Users Posts: 899 ✭✭✭Burt Renaults


    I haven't been on a bike in 30 years. I don't like them. I also don't like most cyclists whom I encounter on the roads, especially the Sunday ones in all their ludicrous gear, displaying nothing but contempt for public transport, refusing to move over into the cycle lane or pause for a second to let a bus safely pass. Or worse still, overtaking a bus that's trying to exit a bus stop and then delaying it again further down the road.

    However, I 100% support 30km/h speed limits in all urban areas. If someone finds it difficult to drive at that speed, it's not the fault of their car's gearing. It's the fault of the idiot behind the wheel. They shouldn't be allowed to drive.



  • Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Oireachtas committees get submissions like this all the time and anyone can make a submission to a committee. They generally mean very little as they are aimed at informing the executive branch. All they can do is recommend policies and the government can simply ignore it.

    As others have observed apart from national laws defining speed limits, it's councils who make the call on where to apply them and they are neither practical nor enforceable in most most parts large urban conurbations. As one of the 2% who respects the 30 kph it requires a lot of concentration to drive at 60% of the first national limit of 50 kph. TBH the DCC approach to it so far has been sensible and they have confined it to more residential and smaller streets where anything above that speed is really unjustified.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 37,935 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Less than a quarter of road fatalities occurred on an urban road last year.

    What's your point? Were those deaths ok?

    The safety argument for it is not sufficiently significant to justify such a measure. Proponents will try and say it’s for safety but it just isn’t.

    It is for safety, to reduce pollution, general health and various other reasons including making areas communities again. Why should our towns be designed to suit people driving through them rather than paople walking and living there?

    I’ll repeat what I said earlier in the thread, there is hardly any popular support for this measure - it’s a pet project for the cycling lobby. Can even see it in this thread, the vast majority posting in favour of this are also regular posters in the cycling forum. And yes, before you tell me, yes I know ye are also motorists as well as cyclists. Doesn’t change the fact that it’s cyclists in the main seeking this change.

    I keep hearing that term - what is the "cycling lobby". Have they a representative lobby organisation now funded by the cycling industry? Maybe soon, they will get free airtime on all the radio stations!

    As for the popularity of the move, there are many who would like their kids to be able to walk or cycle to school and are afraid of doing so because of the percieved dangers on the roads.

    Anyhow, the proposal is not to set everythign to 30km/h and the plan has not been discussed with the populace or the councils in any detail so it is not true to say that there is hardly any support for it. The proposal is to set a defaulf of 30km/h for all roads and for any roads to have a higher speed limit then there needs to be a justification for it. Surely if in your view most roads are safe to do a higher speed and everyone wants it, what it the problem with this approach?



  • Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Anyhow, the proposal is not to set everything to 30km/h and the plan has not been discussed with the populace or the councils in any detail so it is not true to say that there is hardly any support for it. 

    It's not even a proposal it's a bog standard submission to an Oireachtas committee, one of the very many they receive.


    I'm also not sure about the claims about kids wanting to walk or cycle to school. In my experience it's proximity that decides that and some urban streets have challenges with car and bike traffic combined, regardless of the speed of vehicles.


    As for the question of ability to drive at that speed it is not part of any training and it takes some effort to do so for an extended period, which would be the case if this became far more commonplace in urban areas.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 28,805 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    the evidence is very clear that slower speeds in urban areas save lives.

    if people rebell against safety measures then that's easily dealt with by more enforcement.

    shut down alcohol action ireland now! end MUP today!



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 47,840 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    i'd hazard a guess it might knock 2km/h off the average speed.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,225 ✭✭✭Unrealistic


    Speed limits do reduce speeds, even if they are not complied with. A significant number of people who are happy risking 65km/h in a 50km/h zone would not drive at the same speed in a 30km/h zone. Even if you don't get compliance you still get a a drop in average speed. By rights there should be enforcement externally (Gardai) and internally (speed limiters in cars) but, in the absence of that, we've got to work with what we have.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,167 ✭✭✭monkeybutter


    How did you come up with this calculation exactly


    At 9 the issue is you are going to get stuck at lights, that wouldn't be reduced by going at 30


    You'd be down to about 20k average speed


    The rest of the day throuhput would drop and traffic would be worse



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 47,840 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    How did you come up with this calculation exactly

    you misread me. i said i'd 'hazard a guess'.

    however, lets do some maths. the maximum theoretical difference in time it would take if you were able to drive the full distance of 12km at 50km/h vs 30km/h, is 9.6 minutes. with all the stopping and starting in a real world situation, you'd be lucky to get anywhere close to half that time as a gain (or loss); a significant part of your journey is going to be spent under 30km/h anyway (much of it stationary).

    so let's say the journey would go from 25 minutes to 30 minutes when the roads are quiet, and i reckon that's generous. that would be a drop in average speed from 28.8km/h to 24km/h. i.e. a drop in average speed akin to walking pace.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,158 ✭✭✭Citrus_8


    The problem in Ireland is pedestrians crossing anywhere they want, walking between cars, crossing on the red light (even Garda), not the speed. We all know that nobody cares about these 30 km/h restrictions as no one is enforcing it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,717 ✭✭✭Phil.x


    Does anyone stick to 30? I certainly don't, 50 up the quays and 50/60 through the park when driving to/from work. Even when cycling I'm near 30 and don't blame cars for overtaking.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,158 ✭✭✭Citrus_8


    They're killing themselves by not even both sides of the road before crossing the road! This isn't a room or a forest, pedestrians aren't wild animals either. However, they act like ones: without a common sense and caution, like if they'd be living in a civilisation for the first day in their lives. If they die due to their careless actions than it's a natural selection. Stupid ones don't get to survive.



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