Principal Officer competition 2022

monk22

I've heard on the grapevine that offers have begun, but don't think they have gotten very far??

juggernaut2

Any notions when and how many of the next tranche will be called? I'm low 600s and wondered if I would be next or the following...

night_owl_2022

Hard to know whether they will call a 3rd batch until we know how fast they start clearing this new panel from batch 2. It seems that there are around 50 on this batch 2 panel but it expires in March 2024.

If they get halfway through the panel and have projections that they will need more than the number of people left on the panel, they might begin interviewing batch 3. However bearing in mind that internal and inter-departmental panels also exist, they may decide to hold off and just run a new competition in April/May 2024.

It all depends on the projected needs coming from the civil service and PAS will try to keep a stream of potential appointees in the pipeline ready for assignment.

juggernaut2

Can I just work this out for historical purposes - please correct anything that is wrong or add any info:

x number applied for the PO external comp. Of which 910ish made it through to the OOM.

batch 1 called 243 of which 150 made it through shortlisting to interview and 70ish were put on the panel. (An unknown number would have refused interview as they were already promoted etc.).

batch 2 called 159 (402-243) of which y made it through to interview and z were put on the panel.

night_owl_2022

Correct - except I wouldn’t call the top 900 an ‘order of merit’ more a ranking of the people who passed the initial screening. We know they have at least 45-50 on the batch 2 panel, based on OOM numbers shared by people here.

i would be very curious to know what OOM numbers they are currently clearing and whether any assignments have happened yet…

hardybuck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120710185#Comment_120710185

I'd be surprised if there wasn't a third batch early next year or before then.

PAS are up the walls with recruitment so I'd expect them to milk this competition as much as they can before going out with another which would take months to finalise.

myk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120579965#Comment_120579965

How did you get on?

CP30

I emailed PAS a few weeks ago and they came today and said they have made contact up to the order of merit of 5 so far.

APparently

@myk I got onto the panel. Haven't heard yet if there was any movement but presume it will go quite slowly seeing as they are only recruiting for 3 Departments. Anybody else on this thread get onto the PO Higher panel?

monk22

Any more movement yet? And any ideas where vacancies are likely to be?

CP30

Hi monk think you said your high single digits before so they must still be at the first 5 they told me they had called off I reckon if you have not heard anything.

softskills

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120765034#Comment_120765034

Delighted to read this APparently. Congrats and I hope you get assigned soon.

CP30

Well any further movement ?

night_owl_2022

It seems to have gone very quiet on here…. Hopefully recruitments will pick up the pace in September. I think PAS and the Depts make slow progress on the panels during the summer. Last year most recruitments happened in the autumn - if the comments here were anything to go by…

minz34

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118663929#Comment_118663929

The extra money, the easy job compared to senior role in the private sector, the holidays, the consultants paid to tell you what to do and how to do it and finally the contractors that do the actual work. yes you will have teams to manage and that's the hardest part. The actual work is really done by others that you claim was done by you. Don't get me wrong it's more work than a CO/EO etc..but with the extra supports it is easily achievable. But don't make the mistake of letting others know that.

Ahshurlookit

Most PO's due to retire are waiting until October for the extra 1.5% increase as it makes a nice difference to the lump sum. Panel will be very slow to move until then and then expect the pace to increase dramatically, possibly leading to a third batch to be called for interview.

flended12

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120870568#Comment_120870568

Very accurate. Just have to get there. Fed up not nailing interview. Dust myself off and go again.

hardybuck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120871994#Comment_120871994

How much is it worth in the context of a lump sum? Is it worth hanging on another half a year for it?

From what I can see a lot of people tend to go in around that end summer and autumn period anyway.

If you hang on past 31 March in the year you're effectively getting another 6 weeks of paid holidays to take before going, plus you have a lot of paid public holidays between March and August. Looks like a lot of people take those and then slip away before September when it starts to get busy again.

As an aside, I saw research conducted before Covid which indicated that retirements would rise a decent bit between 2023 and 2024, peak in 2024 and then remain steady at that level for 3-4 years before dipping. 85% of POs were expected to retire over a period between 2019 and 2028, so there is still an awful lot of churn likely in the Civil Service in the upcoming years.

caviardreams

What do you mean about the 6 weeks extra holidays? It's accrued pro rata over the year is it not?

hardybuck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120929400#Comment_120929400

From my experience you just get it in a block and you're to take it (or with the new policy at least 20 days of it) before end March the following year.

Many people indicate their retirement plans until the very last minute, so there's nothing really stopping someone from taking two weeks off in April and May and June, tidying the desk for half of July and August and then heading away in Sept.

Riskymove

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120929558#Comment_120929558

if you took your entire annual allocation early in leave year and then resign/retire in September an amount will be clawed back

hardybuck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120929609#Comment_120929609

Fair enough - thanks for clarifying.

Ahshurlookit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120929083#Comment_120929083

Roughly about €2,500 based on a PO at the top of the scale. A PO gets 30 days leave per year which is 2.5 per month. If you go at the end of October you'd have 17.5 days to use from 1st April. If they take more than that before retirement it will be clawed back.

hardybuck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120929692#Comment_120929692

Thanks for working that figure out.

Personally I'd be surprised if most people retiring, who are on the guts of €115k a year, would delay their retirements for half a year for another €2.5k on their lump sum - but I'm sure there's some people out there who absolutely would do that.

night_owl_2022

Anyone hear a recent order of merit number from PAS?

The above discussion is interesting. I reckon there are plenty of boomers keen to feather their nest (even more) before retiring….

Many of them would consider the summer months as an easy time to be still in service (and on salary) so they delay retiring until Sept or Dec to coincide with either the ‘Sept return’ or the new year.

This pay deal might nudge them to opt for winter retirement rather than autumn. So we might see a surge in recruitment around the winter.

it’s a little annoying for those of us who are young and keen to make our contribution… guess we just need to be patient.

dotski_w_

FWIW with a number of panels the popular wisdom was that a load of vacancies would arise when pay increase X came along, and they came and went with nothing noticeable happening.

I think most people might extend it a month or two in order to get the increased tax free lump sum, but the impact is small enough that it is statistical white noise, and lost in the general time taken to organise replacing them. Also, for many they hold off until 'after' that date, but for one reason or another don't get around to it for another while. Its a big decision and some pull back from it a couple of times before finally doing it.

The stuff re A/L being Pro rata-ed is ofc correct, as is the fact that some will be relatively brazen about taking the last few months clearing their desk, but that's the case regardless of the timing of their going.

PhoenixParker

Another aspect. Most POs get the role towards the end of their career. I would guess early to mid 50s is the average. There are young outliers but they're outliers and many of those keep moving to other roles.

In any given 10 year period, back of the envelope, I'd expect ~60% of POs to retire/finish up on ill health or move to Asst Sec etc. 85% leaving in 10 years is probably higher than normal but not super crazy exceptionally so.

TaurenDruid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120929795#Comment_120929795

What am I missing about this - isn't the lump sum calculated on average salary over the past three years? So a couple of month's worth of a pay rise would have a minimal effect.

Riskymove

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120933715#Comment_120933715

Nope its based on your remuneration when you retire

Pre-1995 Pension Schemes

In general, for public servants who joined prior to 6 April 1995, a pension of 1/80th of final pensionable remuneration is payable for each year of reckonable service. A lump sum of 3/80ths of final pensionable remuneration is also payable. Total reckonable service for both pension and lump sum is subject to an overall maximum of 40 years, or equivalent.

A public servant in this category who secures maximum pension benefits based on 40 years’ reckonable service would receive a lump sum equal to 150% of their final pensionable remuneration, and an annual occupational pension equal to 50% of their final pensionable remuneration.

I think the 3 years average might apply if you were promoted near retirement for example

hardybuck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120933532#Comment_120933532

I've seen a number of POs in their early 30s too. You've got a decent chunk of people who don't hang around too long in the grade and will be A/Secs by their mid to late 40s. You've then got another cohort who've worked their way up to PO over their career and that will be their final destination.

While around 60% of APs were expected to retire in the period 2019-2028, 85% of POs were.