Aodhán Ó Ríordáin wants to ban single sex schools

Starfire20

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118607506#Comment_118607506

you said you hoped he and his party would be banned, not that they wouldn't be reelected.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118607066#Comment_118607066

I am more with Klaz on this

Best academic attainment for boys is achieved in single sex schools. Girls also have better academic attainment in single sex schools

In mixed gender schools the girls outperform the boys but still do not achieve as highly as girls from single sex schools.

Boys in mixed schools perform worst.

Interestingly as boys mature they achieve similar to girls in a mixed environment.. ie academic attainment equalises in university.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118607217#Comment_118607217

I just spat out me Jaffa Cakes.

"The difference is that conservatives typically want to see some sound planning, research, and want to know the consequences involved in such a change."

Are these the same conservatives that made life a misery for gay people for decades, leading them to live a lie and kill themselves, despite **** all evidence that gay people were some sort of deviants?

The same conservatives that are now badgering transgender people despite studies showing the brain of said trans person closer resembles that of their preferred gender?

The same conservatives that thought getting a divorce was beyond the pale?

The same conservatives that created a hellish society for women and children?

Ireland has come on leaps and bounds in the last couple of decades because of progressive thinking. We now live in one of the freest countries on earth because of progressive thinking. Thankfully along the way we've managed to show conservative the error of their ways, or at least softened their dogmatic nature.

It's not a coincidence that when progressive values started to take over that Ireland began to prosper. If it was up to conservatives we'd still be living in a Roman Catholic Saudia Arabia.

Conservatives care about research and logic.

What a statement.

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118607454#Comment_118607454

I wasn't aware of that, I only remember his "barbarism" comment.

If he is talking about male privilege then he must think that single sex schools give some advantage to boys or that mixed sex schools act as a leveller - perhaps because the teaching methods don't suit boys as klaz mentioned?

If it is as negatively motivated as that then that's very bad. Men/boys already commit suicide in droves, and women are boosted in the corporate world and public sector through all kinds of mandatory policies.

How much hobbling of men will be exacted by this awful political society? It seems never-ending to me.

awec

I only ever went to mixed schools and got to say I find the idea of same sex schools really fcuking weird, and some of the reasons put forward as to why they are good are a little bit creepy.

I'm looking at you, "boys will be leering instead of learning" people.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118607288#Comment_118607288

I've put two posts outlining the benefits of such schools before your own post... you could read them.

As for passive aggressive... lol. My.. aren't you sensitive.

downtheroad

What is the story with reluctance to change in this country. Its 2022, not 1922. If education was invented tomorrow there is not a chance that schools would be segregated by gender, nor would religion be involved.

This country can be quite confusing at times. Vote liberally in huge numbers to repeal the 8th and welcome same sex marriage, then encourage discrimination (Catholic church involvement at school) and segregation (same gender schools) at the same time.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118607544#Comment_118607544

Are these the same conservatives that made life a misery for gay people for decades, leading them to live a lie and kill themselves, despite **** all evidence that gay people were some sort of deviants?

Nope. They're not. You're looking at this solely from a political standpoint.. ie. people who choose conservative parties who hold to traditional viewpoints. However, people can be conservative without aligning themselves with such a narrow viewpoint.

I'm quite conservative on a lot of issues... however, I'm also bisexual, was in favour of gay rights, etc. Just because people are conservative in their views, doesn't mean that they can't appreciate the need for social change. Most people lean different ways on issues, rather than focusing entirely on one perspective the whole way... especially in the last few decades as the social conditioning of the State and Church has declined, and people are able to be more informed (if they want to be) on issues than before.

I won't bother addressing the rest of your post because its the same attitude of lumping those with conservative attitudes into one group.

awec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118607604#Comment_118607604

We don't really encourage segregation or church run schools. There just hasn't been the momentum change it. Yet.

If there was a referendum tomorrow on ditching the church in schools and transitioning state schools to mixed-sex it would pass no problem.

awec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118607624#Comment_118607624

What issues are you conservative on if you are liberal on social issues?

downtheroad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118607642#Comment_118607642

We do a bit though with the volumes of communions and confirmations that still take place despite the number of catholic marriages declining every year. The numbers don't make any sense, and that's due to parents rowing in with the schools instead of challenging them.

fly_agaric

I thought I read that what Labour want would mean that single sex schools will get no state support? Not banned as such.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/call-to-end-outdated-single-sex-schools-within-10-15-years-1.4795181

The Bill proposes giving primary schools a 10-year period to end single-sex admissions and secondary schools a 15-year period.

After this period has elapsed, he said the State should cease providing public funding to schools which continue to discriminate on the basis of gender.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I think there could be enough who would pay the giant fees for surviving sex segregated and entirely un state supported private schools where the Leaving cert classes all get top points. In particular for their daughters (seems to be more popular & socially acceptable). Would be interesting to see it tested out.

Would expect if this ever comes in, you'll end up with mostly co-ed schools, with a small number of surviving super elite private girls schools where everyone gets close to maximum points in the leaving cert as a matter of course! Well the rich are different anyway.

igCorcaigh

About bloody time. Next step is to put in place a secular state education. No religion, and no segregation.

awec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118607661#Comment_118607661

You can be certain that if communion etc wasn't done in school, and people actually had to put the effort in at weekends, that the number of communions and confirmations you'd see would fall through the floor.

The church knows this, and it's why they will kick and scream when it becomes obvious to them that they're going to lose their grip on kids in Ireland.

Galwayguy35

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118607534#Comment_118607534

I did, it was meant as a play on the thread title but don't get me wrong I'd be delighted if there was a way to ban labour, the Soc Dems and the Greens but unfortunately the only way to get rid of them is vote them out.

downtheroad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118607688#Comment_118607688

Completely agree. Not arguing with you at all. Hoped covid might accelerate the end of communion and confirmation in school but it seems to be creeping back in. Just amazes me the amount of people who row in with it every year.

Starfire20

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118607705#Comment_118607705

like i said in another thread, the right has no issues with cancel culture as long as they're the ones doing the cancelling

Mrs OBumble

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118607688#Comment_118607688

I know of one or two schools who asked if communion could be done outside of school time. It was the parents who ate the head off them for daring to suggest such a thing, not the church. Local priests were supportive. But if they schools had gone ahead, they would have lost a LOT of enrolments.

Back on topic. People with wombs mature socially and educationally more quickly than people with penises. To put them together educationally, you'd really need to match younger PWW with slightly older PWP.

awec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118607807#Comment_118607807

So in your scenario, parents, who you are insinuating cared deeply about communion, were horrified that they may have to put the effort in themselves at weekends for their little Jane or Johnny to get their communion? ☺️

Also, I'm not sure if you're aware, but kids of mixed sex are educated together all over the world already. The same age too!

Faugheen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118607587#Comment_118607587

Exactly this for me, and I went to an all-boys school for second-level.

Don't get me wrong, it was great craic and I'm still very close with a good crowd of lads I met in school, but it has zero reflection of what is coming later in life.

There is no segregation in post-secondary school life so I don't understand why we have such a high proportion of them here. If private schools want to do their thing then that's fine, but I don't understand the reasons behind the State supporting such schools.

As for this being labelled 'woke', well that's just plain stupid and shows how people just use it as a catch-all to describe something they don't agree with.

Economics101

I suppose O'Riordain would consider himself a Liberal. But like a lot of Irish Liberals, he is fond of banning things he does not approve of. Is there any evidence that single-sex schools produce worse educational outcomes? I don't have the source but I think that some studies have shown that girls do better in single-sex schools. If there is no evidence that they do any harm and that parents went them then banning them is plain wrong.

And watch out for another absurd culture war: should we ban the term "single-sex" and refer to "single-gender" schools instead?

magicbastarder

i suspect this may have already been mentioned, but how about they first start removing state supports for private single sex schools?

i mean, it's bonkers that private schools which charge thousands a year in fees still get all their teachers paid for by the department.

Mrs OBumble

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118607825#Comment_118607825

The parents generally don't give a rats-ar$e about communion. But they care deeply about the party, and the dosh that their kid will collect.

I'm well aware that same-aged young people are educated together. That's why girls, sorry young-PWW, generally do better in schools with other similar people. Trying to match people with different maturity levels in the same classroom is a crock.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118607653#Comment_118607653

I'd be more conservative on Justice/Criminality, immigration, etc.

SEPT 23 1989

does that weirdo think this is the main concern of 99.9% of the population?

the founding fathers of the labour movement would turn in their graves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118607668#Comment_118607668

Segregation based on gender for education is not exclusive to religion.

Considering the falling grades for boys in Ireland, we might need more segregated schools, not less... but I guess that doesn't matter as long as people can complain about religion.

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118606820#Comment_118606820

I could give you a load of reasons, but really it came down to having been educated in an all-boys environment myself, and I did well for myself out of it, I wanted the same for my son.

There weren’t any concerns about him mixing with girls or any of that nonsense, he’s loads of friends who are girls, as I did in my time in school too with plenty of extracurricular activities and clubs like Foróige, Comhaltas, sports like rugby and hurling, and the Presentation girls used to show up to support the team.

There’s a different culture in single-sex schools than there is in mixed-sex schools. It’s far more competitive for one thing, and the students often motivate, support and drive each other, whether it’s academic or sporting achievements.

To anyone suggesting that single-sex schools don’t prepare children for post-school life, or that single-sex schools impede children’s social development, they’re talking utter rubbish. There’s no consensus on these issues because proponents of either single-sex or mixed-sex schools are measuring different issues in different ways, according to their own standards of what they imagine is most beneficial for the kind of society that they envision.

In any case, Aodhán is talking out his arse again. There just isn’t a hope of what he’s talking about ever becoming a reality, never mind in the next 10 to 15 years 🙄

awec

.

Pawwed Rig

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118606483#Comment_118606483

Well they are. In our case it was the only school that would take my son. All the co ed were way over subscribed and not one parent in my son's class wouldn't prefer co ed but the church still rules the roost on this one. Half the parents don't want religious involvement either but that is for another thread.

Give me a choice and I would never choose single sex. Unfortunately the choices aren't there for many of us.

Alex86Eire

I currently teach in a single sex school and while I really enjoy it I can't see any advantage of it being single sex rather than mixed. School life should reflect real life.