The media and male violence

BrianD3

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118521014#Comment_118521014

Edit: probably best if I don't share some of this stuff. Agree with your post.

Still stihl waters 3

What I find strange is how the media never question why some men are like this, what makes violent men act the way they do, is it the way they're raised and brought up or are they born like this, instead of a blanket solution to change all men why not try to understand why some turn out the way they do and to a lesser extent women as well and take steps to change behaviours

rogber

People get way too worked up about this issue, which is exactly what keeps the clickbait articles coming.

Is there a problem with male violence? Yes, definitely. Probably 95% or more of serious violence is committed by men (or "people with penises" to use the correct woke terminology, weirdly enough the "gender is a socal construct" people tend to drop that idea when it comes to this topic and are happy to use the term "men".)

However, statistics show that the majority of serious crime is committed by a relatively small number of repeat offenders, which is why these "masculinity itself is the problem" articles annoy some people so much. Also the sense of hypocrisy and double standards. At the height of Al Qaida ans ISIS when the right-wing press were attacking Islam as an ideology with a fundamental inclination towards violence, the left were responding with "it has nothing to do with Islam, it's a tiny minority of young alienated men, we need to do more to integrate them!" The same leftists now spout on and on about "toxic masculinity" as something that taints all men.

There is an obvious problem with male violence and I understand women's anger about the topic (indeed as a man I share that anger). But it's also naive to think that it can eradicated by education and upbringing alone. The capacity for violence is deeply wired into humans, just like lust and sex, it has existed across all cultures and all times, and until we can intervene and manipulate male biology it might diminish slightly (which is a good thing) but it will never come close to disappearing. Boys today are brought up in a much more "enlightened" way than even my generation in the 90s, but see almost any group of teenage males out about and the testosterone and potential for aggression is so often palpable. It's part of biology, and ignoring the science won't remove the fact.

...Ghost...

What I found funny whilst listening to the radio over the past week and a bit was the constant calls for "men to stand up" or "get on board in calling out male violence". One campaigner said that men were "encouraging the rape culture", but when the presenter asked how and pointed out that he didn't think he was enabling such a culture, the woman deflected and gave no answer and no examples. It's a sound-bite often unchallenged which is why it rolls off their tongues so easily.

Sticking to the topic of violent men; I wonder what percentage of serious crimes are carried out by men raised by a single mother. I'm a firm believer that a single parent family far more often leads to poorer outcomes for the children raised in them. Single parent families are overwhelmingly a mother being the parent.

Single parent families are overwhelmingly a father being absent.

Sometimes it helps to reframe things, to see things from both sides of the gene pool. But like the old saying goes, an ounce of prevention is better than a pound of cure.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118521326#Comment_118521326

Boys today are brought up in a much more "enlightened" way than even my generation in the 90s, but see almost any group of teenage males out about and the testosterone and potential for aggression is so often palpable. It's part of biology, and ignoring the science won't remove the fact.

Are they though? Sure, physical punishment is mostly gone, but there's been little effort to implement anything to replace it, except for vague suggestions that parents/teachers need to do better. Somehow. Again, there are pieces of research out there on implementing better discipline among teens, but it's still hardly complete, or proven. So, we get to see gangs of teenagers doing what they will, and most adults are too afraid of crossing that invisible line of aggression, and being sued/imprisoned for intervening to stop dodgy behavior.

TBH I tend to find that enlightened just means good feelings and vague assertions as to what should be happening, usually with the expectation that someone else should be figuring out the practical elements.

As for aggression being a part of biology, that's only partially true, since it's also part of personality/behavior. Plenty of teens/adult males don't engage in any kind of violence, while producing the same levels of testosterone in their bodies. There sometimes seems to be an expectation for men to behave a certain way due to testosterone, without really considering what drives them to behave as they do. Actually, from my own experience, I'd suggest it's more connected to parenting, where the parents are gentle people, you see less aggression in their children, whereas authoritarian/strict/aggressive parents, their children are more likely to act out.

We are not animals to be ruled by our biological impulses...

rogber

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118521770#Comment_118521770

I agree with you that we are not animals purely ruled by biological impulses, but to deny that biological impulses lie behind a lot of culture, including the upbringing we give children, is also a mistake. Our systems and ideologies don't arise out of a vacuum, they come from deep urges which we then rationalise and give a sheen of civilisation. It really is a mixture of nature and nurture. Which is why I agree that schools and parents play an important role. But savage attacks like what happened in Tullamore, or mass shooters and other psychos, will always be around and not just because of bad teachers and parents.

rogber

zv2

From the age of 12 young men are subject to images of titillating women almost on a daily basis. Just when their hormones are kicking in and their brains are developing these images are being branded into their brains. By the time he is 18 he has probably seen 10,000 such images (and this was b4 the internet). But if he doesn't develop gentlemanly attitudes to women it is all his fault. One (female) writer called this child abuse. Supposedly men objectify women but women objectify themselves and almost guarantee men will see them in a certain way. You don't need porn to objectify women. Just take a walk on the main drag and see who is objectifying who.

If women want to walk on the street with their vaginas bulging out of leggings that's ok with me but they should be aware there are 12 year olds, whose sexuality is just developing, looking at them.

I'd have to agree, it is clearly causing brain damage in men.

Yurt2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118522091#Comment_118522091

The last bit reads like a backhanded call for women to wear the burqa for their own good tbh.

Although I do agree that young boys are exposed to sexualised imagery of women (all the way up to pornography via the internet) far too frequently at a young age.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118522253#Comment_118522253

well, I think what's important is that we do all we can going forward to protect men from all the bulging vagina's on our streets.

zv2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118522253#Comment_118522253

I agree that it does sound like that but that is not what I intend. My main point is that the objectification of women can't be as simple as "it's men's fault." Or even "society's fault". This is very shallow thinking.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118522331#Comment_118522331

Maybe we could limit the hours they leave the house without a male companion and jogging, especially in tight body hugging leggings would be best avoided. For the good of young boys everywhere like.

I think we need to target violent offences far harder and earlier on, not after the 230th offence when it’s escalated to some crazy situation. We treat utterly psycho violent crimes as if they’re en par with shoplifting or parking offences.

That needs to change. If you for example randomly assault a passer by at a bus stop, you should be put in prison and into some kind of forensic psych programme to evaluate if you’re an ongoing danger to so society and how that danger might be mitigated.

If you’re picking fights and landing in front of a judge for assault over and over, there needs to be an intervention of some sort.

Violent crime should provoke a response to both have consequences and analysis of why it’s happening.

I remember a guy at school who was so violent that he smashed someone’s teeth in and broke their jaw because of some minor thing he was affronted by. I remember him being on a night out in college and someone having to literally sit on him in a nightclub to prevent him assaulting someone.

There are some very psycho individuals out there and I’m not sure that a normal person is going to be able to have a cup of tea and a chat with them about their attitude and I’m also not seeing how your average person male or female can intervene. It’s often way too dangerous.

That’s what happens on public when someone states throwing shapes and threatening people on the Luas etc etc nobody is actually able to intervene.

There’s more than just a societal issue at the heart of it. Our judicial system fails to recognise its role in identifying and dealing with these issues early on. There’s also a serious lack of professional services aimed at mitigation of these kinds of risks.

For example a suspended sentence should only be suspended on the basis that a violent offender is enrolled in an anti violence programme. It would probably save us money and hassle to have the resources for that too, but we don’t invest.

Boards is a pretty horrible place. Its been almost two weeks since Ashling Murphy was strangled to death and the only thread about it was removed from main discussion forums and heaped into feedback so as not to distract from the two concurrent threads about male victimhood in response to the crime. Two threads littered with misogyny and hate openly directed at women, blaming them for everything from bad parenting to being bad whores. Isn't it time men started to take responsibility for their own actions or is that too much of an ask?

zv2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118522349#Comment_118522349

I didn't say anything about brain damage or how women should dress or protecting men. I said if women feel objectified they should not be so quick to blame men when they seem to be doing everything they can to cultivate the image of woman-as-object in young boy's minds. Please respond to what I said and don't replace it with hyperbole.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118522485#Comment_118522485

From the age of 12 young men are subject to images of titillating women almost on a daily basis. Just when their hormones are kicking in and their brains are developing these images are being branded into their brains. By the time he is 18 he has probably seen 10,000 such images (and this was b4 the internet). But if he doesn't develop gentlemanly attitudes to women it is all his fault.  One (female) writer called this child abuse.

Here is what you said. Its as though you are suggesting that unless women are not wearing a burka (walking down the street with their bulging vagina's hanging out of their leggings) they are stimulating men's sexual impulses which they have not given consent to and therefore, is a form of child abuse and are, as you suggest victims of unwanted and toxic sexual impulses that they have no control over, which apparently causes their brains to become less functional with regard to the rights of the opposite sex.

zv2

Sigh. I didn't say 'burkas' I didn't say 'toxic' I didn't say 'less functional'. Please stop misquoting me.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118522635#Comment_118522635

I didn't say you did, I clearly said them in response to the points you made with regard to women's sexuality.

If women want to walk on the street with their vaginas bulging out of leggings that's ok with me but they should be aware there are 12 year olds, whose sexuality is just developing, looking at them.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118522019#Comment_118522019

I agree with you that we are not animals purely ruled by biological impulses, but to deny that biological impulses lie behind a lot of culture, including the upbringing we give children, is also a mistake.

I'm not seeking to deny the biological impulses (I do think we're in agreement in most ways). I have my own experiences, as do most people, with dealing with emotions, such as anger or rage. I do think we need to spend more time (both adults and minors) learning techniques to help us manage our biological impulses, but also the personality/behavioral aspects we learn from experiences of other people. One of the best things I ever did was go to classes to learn meditation, not simply reading a book about it. The same with learning the basics (although I've done the advanced courses too) in NLP. I'm aware its got a bad rep, but the theory behind it is very good for understanding/appreciating our own emotions and how we interact with others. I do think all students in schools should be learning these kind of tools to help them grow in a more balanced/relaxed manner. Wish I'd had access to them 30 years ago, when I was figuring it all out.

Additionally, I do think parents need to be taught how to manage their children. I was thinking of this earlier. When I did teacher training a significant part of the courses were related to classroom management and discipline. I'd done teaching before my training and honestly, I often felt overwhelmed, because the nature of people is to push boundaries and see how far they can take things. The learning I received helped enormously with managing students... but parents don't ever receive any formal training in parenting, except if they're remarkably lucky to have their own parents who did a good job. I do think if we're serious about reducing violence in males (or females too), then we should be starting with the most important influence in our lives... our parents and childhood. Mandatory classes for all parents would be a good step forward.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118522091#Comment_118522091

Dude - bro - f*ck off and take your main drag with you.

Mwengwe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118522443#Comment_118522443

It's really sickening how much there's a prevailing MRA sentiment on here, among other things. But i feel like at some point it's been accepted that a certain type of person uses Boards.ie, in a way it's not all that surprising that people still using an old-fashioned discussion forum have put themselves in opposition to the other side of what they see as a 'gender' or 'culture war' on twitter or wherever else.

It's futile trying to fight it, I got a warning just for posting in opposition to the prevailing victimhood in one of those threads. It's encouraged, in other words.

anewme

Disgusting comments and language being used here to describe women walking down the street minding their own business.

Today's version of "she was asking for it" by wearing a short skirt.

Still stihl waters 3

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118523042#Comment_118523042

Magnetic resonance angiography 🤔

I googled mra and that's what came up if anyone can shed light on what mra means

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118523042#Comment_118523042

I've been absent from social media for a number of years so I've not been very involved with what's going on or engaging in much discussion of the issue. (outside of my own experience) I was familiar with the slant of boards but I can't help but feel that the media coverage might actually be legitimately in response to these kinds of environments which enable and endorse it. I had no idea but it's definitely eye opening although hopefully will be the impetus to do something about it. Politically my vote is going to be with whatever party continues to rail against the violence of men.

DontHitTheDitch

When you're used to misandry, equality feels like oppression.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118523182#Comment_118523182

The statistics don't support your stance. Ireland is already one of the safest countries in the world for women. Yes, there is room for improvement, but this claim that Ireland is in some kind of terrible state, is pure drama.

As for the slant of boards, there's a wide variety of viewpoints here. That's a good thing. We should be questioning the behavior of both men and women in society, not simply focusing on men as being the problem... but alas, there isn't much desire to look at the situation in a balanced manner, considering everything that contributes.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118523222#Comment_118523222

This thread is evidence of the contrary. There is nothing balanced about this, if you can't see that then you're part of the problem. Women have not been allowed to speak on the topic, they've been silenced. Which apparently is the aim of the game.

Still stihl waters 3

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118523182#Comment_118523182

Id be happy to vote for a party that will campaign against violence of any sort and tougher sentences for violent offenders, regardless of their gender