The media and male violence

Bobtheman

The media think they can sort this. A few laws passed and an education program and off we go.

Firstly you will never totally eliminate male violence. Don't pretend that's a runner.

In terms of reducing it-Ireland has a very low rate as it. The media does not acknowledge this.

Passing laws won't change much. Mandatory sentences? We don't have the prison capacity. They are talking of locking men up once they trip the low level violence wire to prevent upward escalation. No prison spaces folks and the vast majority of men who commit violence at a low level never escalate.

You might have better luck trying to radically limit access to booze as its a main driver of violence but that is never going to happen.

As to education programmes - what's the point teaching young males about the perils of misogyny when they have 24 hour access to porn?

There is an anti male bias in the media. Men have practically created everything we use. Female lifespans are much longer because of men.

But to listen to the media men - are marauding the streets looking for a fight.

alchemist33

Some good points there and some rubbish - it's a bit rich saying women should be thankful for men making advances in science and health when women were denied these roles for so long.

But as to debating violence against women, many men with internet access in the past week have acted like complete dickheads, exposing their thin skin. There's a time and a place for some views, and the past week wasn't the time.

Bobtheman

It's also simplistic to say they would have invented anything if given half a chance. No evidence of that even now.

As to thin skin men have put up with the female dominated media spouting a lot of bullshit the last week.

washman3

The same media that insisted we should strive for "zero covid"......😁

Dyr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118513826#Comment_118513826

When was the time and a place to point out that not long ago a working class man was shot in dublin on his own doorstep with his family inside and the media and the band wagon irish barely noticed?

DontHitTheDitch

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118513826#Comment_118513826

There is still an extraordinary disparity in the numbers of patent applications made by men than women, even women with degrees in engineering and science seem to not apply for patents at a much higher rate than other educated women. The gap was 92.5% male in 2012 and has closed a little since, however a lot of female applicants apply for clothing or cosmetic patents rather than technological innovations.

As to your second point, the media and ‘influencers’ seriously misjudged how well misandry would go down with the general population.

alchemist33

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118514020#Comment_118514020

Not within a day of the brutal murder of a woman.

Dyr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118514099#Comment_118514099

It was two days before, but he wasnt young, female, or middle class, so there was no profit for the media and no agenda to be furthered thus the plain people of Ireland didnt give a ****.

People don't like that being pointed out for some reason

Brucie Bonus

Its about acknowledgement of the issue.

The media is far from perfect. Each outlet has its own agenda. But to dismiss everything based on that would be silly.

NewbridgeIR

You say "Mandatory sentences? We don't have the prison capacity. They are talking of locking men up once they trip the low level violence wire to prevent upward escalation."

Almost all of the articles I've read in the last week pointedly exclude references to sentencing. It's rare to see left-wing commentators calling for higher sentences (unless it's for white collar crime or violent crimes committed by middle / upper class people)

TP_CM

Took me a while but I've come to learn that those in the media basically want to make money. If there is a World Cup on, you'll see football stories, if there is a pandemic on, you'll see pandemic stories, and if there is a brutal attack on a poor young lady, I'm afraid to say, there will be stories related to that too. Whatever gets clicks will get headlines and articles. Let's see how much they care about male violence if things kick off between the USA and Russia.

It's all about capturing people's imaginations, not actually changing the world. The year that Sophie Toscan du Plantier was horribly murdered, 18 other women in Ireland were horribly murdered as well. But perhaps it was just a coincidence that the photogenic wife of a well-renowned husband hit the papers and the rest were largely forgotten about by society.

Not saying people don't care, but the picture pushed by media sites might not be an entirely accurate representation of how society as a whole feels.

Sand

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118514450#Comment_118514450

The media is not focused on making money. Media is very often operated at a loss. The Guardian, for example, is constantly begging for donations whilst still running an with an agenda that completely alienates most people. The purpose of the media is to drive a narrative, and media is often very willing to accept losing money and losing credibility to advance those narrative.

PaoloGotti

I can understand the serious reaction to attacks by men on women as it is similar to child abuse - the victim is “helpless” in a similar way.

I for one would support a mandatory life sentence for any form of physical assault by a man on a woman. But I absolutely can see that this strategy will not solve the problem.

I really don’t think the problem can be ever fully solved, short of a minority report type future. As long as men have a significant physical strength advantage over the majority of women then all that is left remaining is for them to be a bit of a psycho. They are in a position to play god then.

dreamers75

My god what utter utter shite in the OP.

Its actually quite a simple solution, this may get technical and convoluted but bear with me on this.

I never attacked a woman(or man). My 2 adult sons never attacked a woman(or man).

Why? I hear you ask.

Because A we are not mental and B prolly raised to respect people and like not attack them.

Mindblowing ****!!!!

PaoloGotti

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118513826#Comment_118513826

I never quite got the likes of this attitude: “women were denied x”. By whom? Why didn’t they deny the perpetrator the opportunity for scientific discovery?! And what about the less capable men that were “denied” recognition because they just weren’t good enough? I know in my job there is actually a hesitancy to “put down” a woman vs a man. We men berate each other.

ps just in case it is misread that I view women as less capable in scientific discovery - I don’t - I just believe they aren’t as interested in that type of thing. There has been exceptions - Marie Curie etc.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118513826#Comment_118513826

Some good points there and some rubbish - it's a bit rich saying women should be thankful for men making advances in science and health when women were denied these roles for so long.

He said that men had created most of the things we use. That's different from what you claimed above. Both are inaccurate in any case. Women have been involved in scientific progress for centuries, it's just that those who were involved were outliers, compared to the vast majority. Secondly, in some instances women were denied, but that's not the case across the board.. there simply wasn't the interest in challenging the social norms of the time.

But as to debating violence against women, many men with internet access in the past week have acted like complete dickheads, exposing their thin skin. There's a time and a place for some views, and the past week wasn't the time.

There's no shortage of dickheads of the male or female variety on the internet...

And the past week was definitely the time to stand up to the nonsense being passed around as gospel. It wouldn't have been suitable at the funeral of the poor woman, or in the face of the family... but on the internet or in public conversations, where feminists and women were pushing their own biases, and agendas? Damn right it was the time to stand up.

There has been far too much apathy among males regarding confronting feminist driven social changes in both the media and in society. If this horrible incident in Tullamore is what gets men interested and involved in protecting their rights, then at least, something good has come from the situation.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058229218/the-media-and-male-violence

As to education programmes - what's the point teaching young males about the perils of misogyny when they have 24 hour access to porn?

Perils of misogyny? You sure that's the claim you want to make?

There is no scientific evidence to show that porn encourages misogyny in males. There's plenty of theories, often driven by US based political considerations, but ever notice how porn that's directed towards women is never criticised? If porn caused the problems you're associating with it, then we'd be seeing a huge amount of Misandry (and misogyny), as female interest in porn is quite high in most countries.

You're simply buying into the propaganda. I don't watch porn myself, at least, not since I was a teenager... but I'm aware of the debates around it. Most of the crap people say about porn is rubbish.

In any case, what's the point of such education when the vast majority of males do not engage in violent behavior? The people who do engage in violence are unlikely to be influenced by further educational attempts to inform. So.... what's the point? It's a deflection away from the aspects of society that people don't want to deal with. A waste of time, but hey, if it means that men/boys are wasting their time, it's okay.

I wouldn't be terribly surprised if the only people qualified to teach boys/men all of this were female.. kinda ties in with the influence that mothers have over children growing up, and the sheer amount of female teachers in education, but no acknowledgement of that influence, when it comes to the negatives. Strange that nobody finds that interesting...

There is an anti male bias in the media. Men have practically created everything we use. Female lifespans are much longer because of men.

Women's lifespans are longer because of biology and the lack of heavy concentrations of Testosterone. Not because of men. True, a lot of medical progress was performed by men, but the same can be said for women.. because since women entered medicine, they've leaned heavily towards areas which directly affect women in society.

And no, men didn't create everything we use. People did. Making claims like the above is doing nothing to promote Men's rights as a reasonable objective.

Is this thread the Irish equivalent of "All lives matter"

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118514727#Comment_118514727

I can understand the serious reaction to attacks by men on women as it is similar to child abuse - the victim is “helpless” in a similar way.

Not even remotely similar. Child abuse vs Adult violence. A child has little in the way of experience or agency in determining where they are or how they deal with others. An Adult, male or female, does.

Anyway, how about understanding that the rate of male led murders of women in Ireland is extremely low compared to most other countries in the world. Same with male led violence directed towards women....

I for one would support a mandatory life sentence for any form of physical assault by a man on a woman. But I absolutely can see that this strategy will not solve the problem.

Any form of physical assault. So a guy slaps a woman across the cheek, you would advocate a life sentence? Yeah, that's fair. Especially, since I see no indication that you would apply the same standards to women. Oh, and before you point out the strength difference... the use of weapons can seriously level the playing field, and in some cases, women can be stronger than men, both physically and mentally.

Domestic abuse by women towards men is a thing... you might want to consider it a wee bit.

I really don’t think the problem can be ever fully solved, short of a minority report type future. As long as men have a significant physical strength advantage over the majority of women then all that is left remaining is for them to be a bit of a psycho. They are in a position to play god then.

As long as men and women are treated differently in regards to their safety and the expectations that society has about them, these problems will continue in a serious manner. It will never be entirely resolved, but if people were willing to consider the root problems, we might be able to further reduce the actual risks to women. But that won't happen because all problems are external to women, and they should not be required to change habits/behaviors to ensure their own safety. Instead, blame the entire male gender for how a minority, (one who can't be identified before problems arise), behaves.

Ever notice how the focus is on male/female, rather than considering other classifications like race, economic backgrounds, educational backgrounds, etc? When we only have two genders to choose from, it's remarkably easy to focus on one gender being the problem... as opposed to looking for actual issues that could be tackled.

PaoloGotti

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118515626#Comment_118515626

You said a lot without saying much.

The core reason is genetic strength, don’t think that can be disputed. You can’t use outliers like strong women or weak men to argue otherwise.

Weapons are illegal. Fact: if I am a sick psychotic man i could kill 99% of women out for a jog. The reverse is not a fact. This is what I meant in likening it to child abuse: the average woman stands no chance against the likes if Ted Bundy.

If one does not accept these facts then they will forever fail to accept the gravity of the problem.

It's all about divide, keep People against each other. That's the main narrative. The Irish Media, especially RTE have a definite anti Male agenda.

There's good and bad in both sexes, however, constantly demonising Men is not going to achieve anything.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118515341#Comment_118515341

No. The violence will take on even more depraved turns

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118515661#Comment_118515661

The core reason is genetic strength, don’t think that can be disputed. You can’t use outliers like strong women or weak men to argue otherwise.

Due to the shift away from manual labor, more and more men aren't focused on physical work. Typing on a keyboard or talking in a meeting, doesn't do much to develop muscle strength. Just as there's less interest in personal sports which build upper body strength, and a greater interest in cardio. The point being that there is a growing population of males who aren't interested in building their strength, and that puts them closer to women than to the traditional strength associated with men.

But in any case, I mentioned more than strength.

Weapons are illegal. Fact: if I am a sick psychotic man i could kill 99% of women out for a jog. The reverse is not a fact. This is what I meant in likening it to child abuse: the average woman stands no chance against the likes if Ted Bundy.

First off, that's not a fact. You could kill most people because of the element of surprise... not because you're a man. If anything women have an advantage because of the perception that they would be harmless (which isn't true) in any attack coming from the element of surprise. Secondly, just about anything can be used as a weapon. I've got hair accessories from when I had long hair which could easily pierce skin... little difference between them and a knife considering the piercing aspect.

And any decent training in self-defense will teach a variety of moves capable of killing someone. Using your fist/palm of your hand, to punch someone in their throat is very effective at killing someone. The body, itself is a weapon, due to the bone within.

If one does not accept these facts then they will forever fail to accept the gravity of the problem.

When someone chooses to claim opinions to be facts, then they're not prepared to deal with the problem. Instead, they merely want to use the problem as a foundation to support their views.

Yellow_Fern

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118515588#Comment_118515588

To be fare porn is a diverse category. There is normal porn and there is a vast amount of really weird stuff. Step parents and their step adult children is a massive niche, weird bondage stuff, weird pseudo rape stuff. It is really endless.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118516236#Comment_118516236

Then any issues that the watcher of porn has... probably came from elsewhere.. and people are simply using the porn as an easy answer.

I'm not defending porn as such. No more than I'm defending watching a war movie. Both could be used to explain aggression... but they're probably not the real reasons why people behave that way.

uptherebels

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118516236#Comment_118516236

And?

uptherebels

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118516235#Comment_118516235

Thats some load of I'll informed nonsense. You seem to be confusing what an opinion and a fact is.

The differences in strength between men and women is genetic, muscle mass, bone density etc this isn't magically reduced by some men not engaging in manual labour🙄.

Sure training can help women, but that takes years of dedicated training most "self defence" classes won't come even close to this level. Don't even get me started on punching someone in the throat🙄

With or without the element of surprise due to the physical advantages that males have over females, the end result is still the same. It isn't the same the other way around.

20silkcut

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118514128#Comment_118514128

Just as in life as in death certain people are more popular than others. By the age of 7 or 8 most kids can probably recognise this. Most people depending on the person accept this in the years after to varying degrees. Without having to get into the details of why one death has grabbed more attention than another it should not take any more than a few minutes of personal internal reflection as to why it is so. If it still can’t be understood one should go back to when they had the mind of a 7 or 8 year old kid and figure out why everyone is not treated the exact same. It’s life it’s a harsh truth but that’s the nature of human beings. We don’t do equality we are not programmed for it. It’s part of our DNA to not treat everyone equally. And I’m sure every single one of us here has experienced it from both sides at some stage.

nj27

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118515592#Comment_118515592

I guess so, both are responses to political agendas masquerading as crises.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118516370#Comment_118516370

Thats some load of I'll informed nonsense. You seem to be confusing what an opinion and a fact is.

Reread my posts... where did I claim any such thing as a fact? I expressed my opinions....

The differences in strength between men and women is genetic, muscle mass, bone density etc this isn't magically reduced by some men not engaging in manual labour

True, but the changes in habits, nutrition, etc do affect the spread of strength differences. There are women who are physically stronger than certain men. That's not simply an outlier setup.

Sure training can help women, but that takes years of dedicated training most "self defence" classes won't come even close to this level. Don't even get me started on punching someone in the throat🙄

Consider what I was responding to... that's the context for what I wrote. Slapping sideways across the adams apple, or punching to the throat, requires little in the way of actual strength, and is a good first strike towards setting up the remainder of an assault.

With or without the element of surprise due to the physical advantages that males have over females, the end result is still the same. It isn't the same the other way around.

In a fight... a woman is at an extreme disadvantage to a man, for all the reasons you mentioned earlier. If its the case of approaching someone who is unaware or unprepared, a woman can deal serious damage to a person. The element of surprise allows access to the most vulnerable parts of our bodies. The poster I responded set the scenario...

uptherebels

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118516592#Comment_118516592

Thats why I said you are confusing them😉

Very few people nevermind the average female would able to throw an adequate punch to the throat or a slap to Adams apple for it to be of any significance, least of all setting up a further assault🙄

Sure if the average woman has a weapon the element of surprise would give an advantage but not physically in a confrontation.

Nobody said no women are stronger than anyman. Katie Taylor would knock most men around a ring, but that isn't of any significance to the rest of the population. Just like some elite women being stronger than some men isn't significant to the rest of the female population.

I don't think you know what an outlier is.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118516790#Comment_118516790

Grand. I disagree, but I see no value going round in circles with it.

Bobtheman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118514766#Comment_118514766

So it's just the way a person is reared? There might be some evidence of that but just citing three people iq hardly an argument. There are im sure people who hit women who never saw it growing up

You are peddling simplistic bollix

uptherebels

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118516847#Comment_118516847

You can disagree with basic biology all you want. But you should see some value in trying to understand it.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118517245#Comment_118517245

Oh, I understand biology well enough. What I disagree with is your manner of posting, and how you dodge my points. That's why I have no interest in the circular argument.

uptherebels

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118517505#Comment_118517505

Clearly you don't as you seem to think manual labour is what separates men and women.

I addressed your points, then you chose to go on about a circular argument when faced with with this.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118517209#Comment_118517209

How many kids can't write a decent sentence? As far as I am aware, we have an excellent school system, and an extremely high literacy rate in this country.

What resources would you put into district courts to help prosecutions of domestic violence?

You want the.government to limit our access to alcohol and pornography? You don't believe in personal freedoms?

Lastly. Women acting the victim over everything? You will have to explain? I haven't seen women acting the victim over everything! Seems quite wide and wild accusation. I did see the media over the last two weeks try to portray women as complete victims and men as complete offenders, but we all know that none of that is real, it's a media construct. Perhaps you fell for their peddling, but women in this country do not act the.victim over everything.

Fr Tod Umptious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118517209#Comment_118517209

We could limit access to booze

Take that to the "Minimum alcohol pricing is nigh" thread and see how you get on.

So mcentee is going to introduce laws that make it an offence for a man to look at a woman. All the woman has to do is say she feels threatened even if she doesn't know he's looking at her.

What can go wrong?

Absolute lunacy. Not like women can't be vindictive and make false claims or anything.

PaoloGotti

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118517505#Comment_118517505

This is what I meant by not appreciating the gravity of the problem. The biological differences is the ROOT CAUSE. If women were biologically stronger than men then the tables would be turned. One must accept this root cause as a constant. It can’t be changed. Solutions to the problem must work in spite of it.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118518059#Comment_118518059

Exactly my point. I didn't suggest that manual labor was what separated men and women... that's you interjecting your own statements and then arguing them yourself. As you did earlier too.

Enough.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118518551#Comment_118518551

Solutions to the problem must work in spite of it.

Agreed.

PaoloGotti

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118518648#Comment_118518648

Sorry, klaz, I didn’t meant to quote your post. Having reread your previous replies I see we are very much aligned more than misaligned. Cheers.

Bobtheman

Yawn tired.

osarusan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118518533#Comment_118518533

What's this now? A law that 'makes it an offence for a man to look at a woman'? Any links to something that says or indicates that?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118519459#Comment_118519459

She has said it will be a crime for a man to watch a woman if that woman feels threatened whether she knows she's being watched or not.

A quick Google on her new stalking legislation will bring you there.

So if I look at someone and she feels threatened I'm under criminal investigation. It's getting to a stage where men will have to look at the ground while out and about or just wear a paper bag over their heads.

Or will the accusation just be enough without any evidence that I was threatening. Seems her just feeling that way is enough.

Jaysus.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118519491#Comment_118519491

Ms McEntee said new laws that explicitly reference stalking as a criminal offence will make it clear that stalking includes watching or following a victim, even where the victim is not aware of it

If the "victim" is not aware of it.. who determines that someone is actually stalking? If it comes down to watching someone.

Just seems very... open to interpretation.

https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2022/0119/1274674-dail-violence-against-women/

TBH the article reads rather... harsh.

"Our daughters' Ireland is still ugly and dangerous," she said, and also pointed to the lack of funding for women's refuges.

They're really pushing hard, in spite of the statistics, which show Ireland to be one of the safest countries in the world for women.

joseywhales

I think it would be better to focus on violence in general. I played a lot of gaa and rugby, played plenty of violent video games, watched endless porn but never in my life have I even thought about hitting somebody male or female out of anger and I've definitely done people in in a tackle but without emotion. I do not understand why people fight each other or why it's acceptable in society. Despite have many friends who have been in scraps. It's clearly unnecessary in every instance and if we are going to make legislation we should do so to reduce violence in general, outside of a controlled sporting environment. Man on man, man on woman, woman on woman,woman on man, it's all childish nonsense. I find it weird when in male culture we still glorify the just man who beats the **** out of his scurrilous foe, it's still not acceptable.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118519627#Comment_118519627

 I find it weird when in male culture we still glorify the just man who beats the **** out of his scurrilous foe, it's still not acceptable.

gender stereotyping with roles. Men are still primarily those who fill roles such as the military or the reaction forces for the police. It's the warrior aspect. Don't get me wrong... I'd be similar to yourself, having no interest in violence/fighting, and have tried my best to avoid it all my life. And... I've had a variety of nasty encounters, which couldn't be avoided, and I generally came off poorly. However, I can understand the desire to elevate the parts of male activity relating to aggression, into being something honorable or important. But yeah, the muppets who beat the crap out of each other... it shouldn't be considered a good thing, and it should be something that we attempt to leave in our past, as society moves on towards a better sense of self.

Still, I'd say that there's far less common violence in Ireland than when I was a teenager. There's very little of the gangs beating up gay lads, or the brutal fights after the pubs close their doors. It still happens, but my hometown had a reputation for roughness, and that's mostly a thing of the past. I know Dublin has problems, but that's generally the way with large population centers.

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118514766#Comment_118514766

Same, nobody I even know attacked another person…

the criminal penalty should be equal regardless of which gender committed the assault when the attacks are similar in nature.

a woman driving a car 20 kmph over the limit should get the same as a guy doing it.